Albino x Caramel = ?

Please don't say double het lol
ok, what if we breed those double het together and hit the odd...so how do you think the homogyzous form of Albino Caramel will look?

I might be talking crap here but they're T- & T+ Albino, so I guess both gene will cancel each other out and the homo form will be...........normal? :D

Anyone out there already make this combo???

yea im pretty sure theyve already come up with a albino caramel... I think I saw one for sale on king snake

an Albino x Caramel albino would likely look like a regular albino. The T+ gene which mutes and distorts melanin, would be negated by the true albino's lack of melanin, and therefore look like a normal albino.

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Originally Posted by Ridley

an Albino x Caramel albino would likely look like a regular albino. The T+ gene which mutes and distorts melanin, would be negated by the true albino's lack of melanin, and therefore look like a normal albino.

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Not true and here is a pic from a ad on kingsnake ;).
http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=32&de=539352

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Originally Posted by joepythons

Not true and here is a pic from a ad on kingsnake ;).
http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=32&de=539352

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Joe, that link appears to just display regular Caramels, not Albino X Caramel.

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Originally Posted by Ridley

an Albino x Caramel albino would likely look like a regular albino. The T+ gene which mutes and distorts melanin, would be negated by the true albino's lack of melanin, and therefore look like a normal albino.

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I would have to agree with this. The eumelanin and the melanin are being played with by the two different genes... I dont know how the caramel affects eumelanin, but I would assume it's canceling out black, and leaving red, yellow and brown. I could be horribly wrong...

Jess Im pretty sure joes right and that is a caramel albino... heres a link to NERDs site and their caramel albino.

http://www.newenglandreptile.com/ner...d=62&Itemid=63

Isnt the caramel's name actually 'caramel albino'?? It doesnt mean its been crossed with an albino.

"07 Possible Het Caramel Albinos"
It sounds like he's selling possible het caramels, and the pics are of the parents...

The confusion comes in the names. The full name of the caramel morph is "Caramel Albino." But it's still separate from the common albino gene we're all familiar with, it's just a name.

I agree with the belief that a double-homo Caramel Albino AND Albinio would produce a snake that looked like a plain Albino, although there may be some subtle difference. The thing is...the chances of an "ordinary" looking albino after all the effort it would take to produce a double-homo means that no one (that I know of) is really trying.

After reading into NERDs site it looks like theirs is really a caramel xanthic?.... hmmm so I guess maybe no has made an acutal caramel x albino

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Originally Posted by JoshJP7

After reading into NERDs site it looks like theirs is really a caramel xanthic?.... hmmm so I guess maybe no has made an acutal caramel x albino

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Xanthic is another name for it, I believe. But not one that anyone ever uses.

jeeeeez this name thing really messes me up!

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Originally Posted by JoshJP7

jeeeeez this name thing really messes me up!

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Yeah...I hear ya. I get really confused when people start attaching the "patel" label to every new snake that comes along. :P But the more you read and study, the more it starts to become second-nature. It just takes time.

I posted the same question on Kingsnake a few weeks ago and it seems that everyone has opinions, but no hard facts. Many thought it would produce a normal looking albino, an equal number thougth it would be a normal double het. Someone said that they produced a carmel from an albino and het pairing purchased from NERD. NERD said it was a random occurence, but who knows.

I thought I herd somewhere that it was thought to be fatal. The caramel albino X albino. Not sure but I thought someone tried it and they have yet to have any eggs hatch. Like I said im not 100% sure on this. Ill have to look and see if I can find the link to where I seen this.

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Originally Posted by JoshJP7

Jess Im pretty sure joes right and that is a caramel albino... heres a link to NERDs site and their caramel albino.

http://www.newenglandreptile.com/ner...d=62&Itemid=63

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See thats what i understood by the ad :)

"Caramel" is short for "Caramel albino"...that's the full name of the base morph. It doesn't imply that the regular yellow and white albino is part of it.

Here is direct ad for a caramel albino ;). http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=32&de=553904

I'd still like to know what the double het caramel + albino looks like. The general assumption is a normal looking double het from breeding caramel (aka caramel albino, aka xanthic) to an albino (aka regular albino) and that the double homozygous in the next generation would look like a regular albino.

But until proven otherwise we can't be sure caramel and albino aren't alleles and the double homozygous might look like a caramel.

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Originally Posted by RandyRemington

But until proven otherwise we can't be sure caramel and albino aren't alleles and the double homozygous might look like a caramel.

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I guess I dont know much about snake genetics, but what do you mean they aren't alleles? and that the end result would be a caramel? Can you explain your thoughts behind that?

I took it as, the caramel cancels out black. The Albino cancel's out all pigment except for yellow. What could be left over after that when the albino allele would only leave yellow?

Unless the caramel also dilutes the yellow pigment, you may end up with a unimpressive albino.

Joe thats the same ad I was looking for but it was taken down when I went searching for it... That snake is sooo nice lookin but that guy is crazy feeding it 1-2 medium rats a week! I wouldnt be surprised if it was an early 07 baby thats been stuffed every week... Looks a lot like a glow.

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Originally Posted by JoshJP7

Joe thats the same ad I was looking for but it was taken down when I went searching for it... That snake is sooo nice lookin but that guy is crazy feeding it 1-2 medium rats a week! I wouldnt be surprised if it was an early 07 baby thats been stuffed every week... Looks a lot like a glow.

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Yea he is feeding it way to much ;)

Still, it's just a caramel. A nice one though... perhaps the Double homozygous form of the "caramel x albino" would create a lavender albino without the hypo? lol, okie.. I'm done fathoming. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by RandyRemington

I'd still like to know what the double het caramel + albino looks like. The general assumption is a normal looking double het from breeding caramel (aka caramel albino, aka xanthic) to an albino (aka regular albino) and that the double homozygous in the next generation would look like a regular albino.

But until proven otherwise we can't be sure caramel and albino aren't alleles and the double homozygous might look like a caramel.

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It's certainly true that until one is produced, everyone is just speculating on what they might look like. But the assumption that they would just look like normal albinos makes it unlikely that very many people will be attempting it. That was my whole point. I know when I start breeding, that particular combination will not be tried because there are too many others with far more exciting potential. But who knows.....we may all be missing the boat on a spectacular combo. :confuzd:

hmmm, I might try breeding this pair together next year. By that tme the male Albino and the female caramel would be big and old enough. The Albino is '07 230 grams and the female is '06 1,300 at the mo. I think I'll go for it...unless I can get a male g-stripe in couple months lol
https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...ipe-male-2.jpg
https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...mel_199817.jpg

Think the male will be big enough?

One year from now he will be big enough coz he's eating like crazy now. Whenever I open the box he stick his head out looking for food...I think.

Sorry, work has been getting in the way of my forum posting.

I was actually talking about the babies from the initial cross of caramel X albino which I’ve not heard being done yet. The general assumption is that these are two unrelated mutations of different genes but until that cross is done we don't know for sure. If it turns out that caramel and albino are two different mutations of the same gene (alleles, it looks like this is the case with the lesser/mojave group) then neither the homozygous caramel parent nor the homozygous albino parent would have a normal version of that common gene. If there is an allele relationship between caramel and albino then most likely the babies from crossing the two would not look normal because neither parent would have a normal copy of that gene to give. The babies with one albino version of the common gene (in the allele scenario) and one caramel version of that gene might look caramel.

On the other hand, if it does turn out that they are mutations of different genes and the double hets look normal I would also expect that the double homozygous would look albino. If they are alleles however a double homozygous would not even be possible because an animal can only have two total copies of the same gene.