male combat...

I have a question about males being introduced during breeding.

I know they will combat... but I have also heard (8ball mentioned this in another thread) that they will breed each other as a sign of dominance.

I guess what I am wondering is if they are introduced... what is the likely repsonse? Will you got combat, then the occasional lock? Or is the locking based on males that have been housed togehter for a long time.

Will they always combat first? Or will all males enter into combat?

And if we can avoid the silly H jokes that would be great. I am genuinely interested in hearing what people know and have seen.

Thanks in advance,
Bruce

Hi Bruce,

I have never tried to combat my males, so I can't speak from personal experience. However, I did post a quote from the Barker's book about male combat here:

http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...8&postcount=12

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Hi Bruce,

I have never tried to combat my males, so I can't speak from personal experience. However, I did post a quote from the Barker's book about male combat here:

http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...8&postcount=12

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Thanks Rab.

I just want to clear up I am not going to combat my males... I was talking to an online friend (reptile facebook buddy). Who put two males together for combat... and they locked, within an hour.

So she has resexed them, and keeps coming up with false positives. Popping... one seems female... probing, and it probes male.

She has opted to try them a second time together.

I just found the whole idea quite interesting, that she may go an entire breeding season and not know if they are both males, or male and female.

I would tend to err on the side of one is female?

Bruce

Is she probing both sides? It's possible that one side has been punctured and will now probe deep.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Is she probing both sides? It's possible that one side has been punctured and will now probe deep.

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The way I understood it was that she had probed one side to a depth of 8 - 9 scales.

Then popped and got no hemipenes.

So probed again, 8 -9 scales, but I mentioned that the female may have punctured, is it hemilogs(?), and will probed deeper. She used a larger probe, as VPI states to use the largest probe that will fit. I think she only went one size up. And this time, could only probe b/w 2-3 scales.

Also she noted that when she removed the probe it *grabbed*, and she felt she may have inserted it just a bit too far.

Not sure if that helps at all.

Bruce.

I think I am interested too, in that being a new breeder... I have always probed (as you know I can`t pop bits to save my life), and have moments of thinking... now what if I have been pairing same-sexed snakes, and am seeing what I think is mating behaviour, but is actually dominance.

I know it is a long shot... but it would really suck come spring. :)

Bruce

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Loft Lizard

I know they will combat... but I have also heard (8ball mentioned this in another thread) that they will breed each other as a sign of dominance.

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I know little about breeding snakes other than what I’ve read here and on other forums, so this statement very much intrigued me.

Question: is this phenomena something that is observed as a constant and a rule, or is it something that is observed only occasionally or even rarely?

I ask because the study of sexuality is something I find fascinating. For over a century the mainstream scientific community turned a blind eye to the existence of various forms of sexual orientation within the family animalia, chalking the occasionally observed instances of non-heterosexual relations as ‘confusion,' ‘dominance behavior’, et al. even when observed among species that pare-bond for life, in habitats with an abundance of available opposite-gender partners.

A great book on this topic, sourcing hundreds of observed and verified international case studies spanning over a century, is: Biological Exuberance, by noted biologist Bruce Bagemihl. There are several reptiles mentioned, from lizards to snakes.

Just to be clear, I am not suggesting that all instances of non-heterosexual behavior are automatically signs of a variance in sexual orientation.

Bruce,

I always probe both sides, just to be sure. But I also pop, with pretty good accuracy for the most part.

You never said if your friend tried probing both sides or not?

i thought that after a certain age, popping isn't very accurate? because the males have stronger muscle by then and can control it better... which makes sense if she keeps popping it as a girl.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by python.princess

i thought that after a certain age, popping isn't very accurate? because the males have stronger muscle by then and can control it better... which makes sense if she keeps popping it as a girl.

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Its very accurate at any size when done PROPERLY...although its very difficult when they are big for the reasons you stated. The only difference between popping a baby vs and adult the the mess that it makes! Squirt!

And to the OP...in my honest opinion, if she can't even sex a ball python properly, I don't think she has any business combating males...definitely not something that beginners should be doing!

Popping adults takes quite a bit of gentle strength. The easiest snakes to pop are hatchlings.. it gets tougher from there, once they gain more muscle control.
I def. think that this person needs to get the snakes to an experienced person to probe them for her. Popping and probing can be harmful to the snake if they are done by someone who doesn't know what they're doing; it is something that needs to really be watched, to learn..
I know that I personally suck at it! Luckily my husband has a hidden snake-sexing talent.. works with me.

Hi all, first of all I'm absolutely new in BP breeding.
I also read Barkers book and what they stated about combat in BPs. Despite I think this is by far the best book of BPs I choosed to combat my pastel in order to speed up a little its breeding behavior. The pastel male was aprox 1000g and its oponent half of that to avoid the posibility of my pastel being beated by its normal oponent. They did combat for about 2 minutes and finallly the smaller one runaway.
I then remplaced the looser with my female and some 15 hours later there was a good lock.
This is just my experience, so I'm not telling that combating is good or bad.
sorry for my english!!

I would not combat my males. They are too valuable to me both as pets, and as purchases. If one got injured, I could not look myself in the mirror.

Hi, Ginevive, I dont think ball pythons can really hurt each other during combat. There are no bites involved, just some kind of pushing....

Hey all quick question. I was recently talking to a breeder and I was telling me that even though its very rare some females probe deep. true or false?