Questions: Aspen Substrate

Hi everybody,

I’ve read the posts on the poll about substrate and I think I’ve learned a lot. However, I do have some specific questions about a couple different types.

1) Aspen: this sounds great, with holding moisture and being easy to spot-clean. However...

1. When feeding is it possible for the snake to get this stuck in his/her mouth or to swallow it? If so, is there any possibility of it harming the animal or can they digest it?
   
   I read on another forum that if snakes eat certain mulch/fibre substrates they can eventually die because it won’t digest and will just build up in their bellies. I don’t know if that is true or not, but I know it can happen to birds with certain indigestible items.
   
   
2. Is it true Aspen is prone to molding? How often would you recommend changing the entire substrate? (I’d guess once a month.)
   
   
3. Would this be a suitable substrate for a 2-month old? I would be fine keeping him on paper, but I am having trouble keeping the humidity up. I have thus far managed to do it, but only with a lot of work – more so than I take it should be necessary.

2) ReptiBark: it seems that it does not hold moisture as well, but it is impervious (or close to it) to molding. However, not many people seem to suggest it for snakes.

1. Are there any qualities that might make it preferable to Aspen?
   
   
2. Might it be advisable to use one type of substrate for young BPs and then switch to another as adults? (Specify?)

Thanks in advance!

Hmm, well I tried carpet, paper, and cypress mulch before the final choice of aspen and I love the stuff...so do the snakes. :)

I've used it on rodents and snakes alike for months now and never seen a speck of mold. Doesn't mean it can't, but I mist my BP regularly now and still not a bit. And I don't see why it couldn't be used for a young snake, especially if you used the sani-chip aspen (I think its called) that is in smaller pieces.

I don't know about digestion of aspen, but I do know it would be safer in that regard than the bark. I feed Nagini in another enclosure, because she prefers it that way, so I don't know how prone BPs are to getting it in their mouths. But I can tell you that I feed both my corns in their cages, and they have pretty deep layers of the aspen, and neither has ever had a problem with getting a few pieces in with the mouse.

I also agree that it is much easier to spot, and fully, clean. Less waste when spot cleaning, too. I change out my cages completely every month, or if they've been particularly messy. Since I use a layer of newsprint under the aspen, I just roll up the paper with the bedding inside and *poof* done. :)

I think that about covers it...sorry for rambling on.

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Originally Posted by Argentra

I think that about covers it...sorry for rambling on.

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I don’t think you were ‘rambling’ at all! You answered my questions and helped put my mind at ease about the exploding-stomach thing. :weirdface

I bought a bag of Aspen and a bag of ReptiBark. I originally planned on just the aspen, but then I saw that many reptiles in the store were housed on the Bark, so I decided to get a bag of that too. I’d rather change the substrate sooner rather than later (again, for humidity) and I figure I can always just return a bag of whatever I don’t use later this week.

Thanks again for taking the time to answer my questions.

I hope to get many responses, since there does seem to be some ‘debate’ about substrates... however, as of now I’m feeling confident with Aspen. If anybody else has a comment to make, feel free! I’m checking back often.

I use the sani chips and I really like it. I've only been using it for a few months but I've never had any issues with mold or the snakes digesting it.

Spot cleaning is a breeze and it vaccums up easy with is a huge plus

Just to let you know, the stores use that stuff because that's what the crappy policies tell them to use on all reptiles. Often, unless it's a small, well run private owned store, the things that stores do are only done to save time and money, not for the good of the animal.

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Originally Posted by Argentra

... Often, unless it's a small, well run private owned store, the things that stores do are only done to save time and money, not for the good of the animal.

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THANK YOU!!! :gj:

NightLad, I'm gonna throw another one at ya! I'm using wood pulp for my ball pythons. It's less dusty and you see right away, if there's a mess that needs cleaned up. Wood pulp is the material that paper towel is made of, so it absorbs the sneaky critters' messes fast. Disadvantages: Wood pulp is more expensive than aspen and humidity needs a bit of fine tuning since it soaks some of it up.

There is a possibility with any substrate to be ingested. You can be creative and find a way to ingest newspaper too, though I don't suggest it.

I had an experience after feeding live (which has not been switched to f/t just cause he'd take it and it's easier) that Spot, my bp tagged a mouse, coiled around it proceeding to eat it and had piece of aspen stuck in his mouth. With gentle care I removed the apsen peice and swithed him to newspaper. I then later switched him back to aspen and monitor him when he feeds just to be sure. With feeding frozen thawed, I make sure the prey is hot and then pat it dry so it isn't damp and won't pick up any substrate.

So yeah...I am all for aspen, I was thinking of switching to coconut type substrate since I am having slight humidity issues.

Just to throw my two cents in i really dislike the Repti-bark product, i picked up a bag a lil bit ago to use in my RTB tank and that stuff dries out so fast its crazy! On the other hand it does not mold so you can can get it wet again and you have no worries.

I use Aspen and love it. Easy to spot clean and hold moisture well. Also these snakes dissolve bone, teeth, and many other strong stuff, so a thin piece of aspen should not be a problem.

I've been using aspen from the start and wouldn't change, depending on how many soils I spot clean I've been able to go 2+ months before changing out the entire tank. To prevent ingestion of the aspen I take out the water dish so the pray doesn't get wet by some over excitement and I put down a piece of paper towel just to make sure. I've had great success with humidity as well by keeping half the water dish over my UTH and having a partially covered top.

Aspen like most any loose bedding comes in various size shreds and quality. In other words, not all aspen is identical. I prefer to go with a very fine shred aspen and it's working out quite nicely for us. Any tiny amount of a fine shred aspen is very unlikely to cause issues with a creature's whose gut acids can fully digest fur, bone and teeth. :)

Something to remember with any bedding like this is to clean down and around any wastes you find. Liquids do spread so always take a good area around the mess to make sure you aren't leaving anything nasty behind. Also with a fine bedding like aspen, it does tend to compress under the constant weight of a snake (especially inside hides). I just regularily finger fluff the bedding and it brings it's loft back up, helping to move heat from the UTH in a much more efficient and consistent manner.

Aaaaaggggggggghhhhhh! Thanks for asking about this. Our BP has a URI and I took him to an exotic specialist vet today. While taking to the vet tech about our bad shed issues, he said to use newspaper - that Aspen tends to absorb the humidity from the air, making it drier. He also mentioned that the Aspen is dusty and particulates can be inhaled.

I can see the point for our Kenyan Sand Boa - switching to something less dusty, that he can still burrow in - b/c everytime I go to get him out, he's covered in dust. But what about for our BP?

Help! I am about to lose my mind from all the millions of opinions. It's like the voices in my head arguing! :taz:

Hi everybody, and thank you all again so much for freely sharing your hard-won knowledge!

The tips about spot-cleaning were quite handy, since Salzedo went potty the other day for the first time, while he was still on paper. The cleanup was rather simple, but now that I’m using substrate I will be more diligent to ensure I get it all – not that Salzedo is making monster poops at 2 months!

I’m also grateful for the tip about putting the rat on a paper towel prior to feeding, to prevent consumption of substrate. So simple I’m embarrassed to admit that I never thought of it! I’ll be sure to use that one. Although it was well put that their stomach acids can break down teeth and bones, so a slip of wood should not be dire.

About the substrate; as I mentioned, I bought the aspen chips (not the fine stuff, although the store I went to sells that too and I’ll switch him over when he is a little older) but I had not yet put it into the tank as I attempted to feed him a f/t fuzzy rat yesterday morning. He wasn’t interested, so I didn’t want to stress him further by changing over his home immediately.

My brother-in-law (who lives with us) returned from his college last night. He only comes home on the weekends. I think he is just as excited about having a snake as I am, because he cannot have one himself due to being away 5 days a week for the next few months. (No pets allowed.)

Anyway, he brought along a bag of ZooMed Cyprus chips/mulch he bought at a reptile store on the way home, because that is what a friend of his uses for his reptiles. I was all set on using the aspen, especially after all I read here, but then he used some Jedi mind trick on me and before I knew it I was agreeing to give the cyprus a try first. Afterwards I was like, “what just happened here?” I am usually not the type of person to be swayed or pressured about stuff, but he started talking a mile a minute about why he liked the cyprus, and before I knew it I was agreeing to give it a trial run.

I feel like such a dink. On the up-side it seems okay and is holding humidity quite well (I’ve only misted once since yesterday afternoon, and I didn’t really have to as it was at 54%), and the heat is now perfect for the lil’guy. I also used some damp coconut bark sparingly around the sides of the enclosure to trap more humidity, and I used a bit of sphagnum moss in the corners to further help humidity and to add a bit of a different texture for Salzedo to curl up on. Oh, and I switched to a CHM, because the 75w light was killing humidity. (Winters are quite dry in my home, and even more so with the heat kicking on and off.)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...33/setup_2.jpg

So, um… anybody have any comments about Cyprus mulch? :redface: (So embarrassed!)

Thanks again, everyone!

I know that NERD uses cypress mulch and it works well for them.

;) we use paper towels here. i would consider using sanichips and maybe aspen someday but we have had problems with the snakes eating pieces of it when feeding inside their enclosure. Scared the holy moly out of me. Im interested to hear more about the cypress mulch, do you have a problem with humidity is that why your choosing to use the moss too? Yet another reason why we love using the bins lol.. they arent as pretty to look at but boy are they easy to keep temps and humidity spot on. I never have to mist anything, just supply small water bowl, two hides and paper towels, thats it.

Thanks so much for that comment, rabernet!

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Originally Posted by AshleyB

;) we use paper towels here.

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I was using brown parcel paper for the first week, and it worked fine as a low-maintenance substrate, but I had a lot of trouble with humidity. I was able to maintain the proper levels, but only with far more work than I gather should be necessary. I have a tendency to get stressed and suffer anxiety about things I’m unsure of (can you tell?), so it left me with a constant knot in my belly. I'm sure in a few months I'll look back on all of this and laugh at my n00bness.

But, who knows? Maybe some of these posts will stick around and help future n00bs. :P

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Originally Posted by AshleyB

Im interested to hear more about the cypress mulch, do you have a problem with humidity is that why your choosing to use the moss too?

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Yes, my home is 100 years old and the temperature levels throughout are really… funny. In the summer, even with central air on, you can literally feel a difference of 10 degrees just by walking up the stairs. In the winter it can be very dry and cool, even with the heat, so I’ve been utterly devoting myself to making sure Salzedo’s enclosure is the absolute perfect environment. I imagine that the NASA team working on a way to terraform Mars for human colonization have been sleeping better than I have the past week.

But finally, I think I’ve found the right combination. MUhahahaaa. *red-eyed, jittery-handed salute* Of course, it’s only been one day so I’m still keeping my fingers crossed.

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Originally Posted by AshleyB

we love using the bins lol.. they arent as pretty to look at but boy are they easy to keep temps and humidity spot on. I never have to mist anything, just supply small water bowl, two hides and paper towels, thats it.

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A friend of mine uses one of those, and I agree they do work great. However, since Salzedo will be my only BP for a good long while (*glares at the snickering masses of BP owners* no, really, space requirements dictate my immediate BP limitation! And nobody mention racks! *puts fingers in ears*) I like him being more of a display animal. Er… even when he spends the day hiding. Hehe.

oh i do understand wanting him to be a bit of a display creature, i went through that at first too but after a couple weeks of fighting temps and humidity i gave up and turned that tank into another critter enclosure instead (and gave me an excuse to get more creatures hehehe **insert evil grin**) I hope you can get everything regulated soon :) good job for trying to figure out the best of the best :D