Fish tank set up help needed!

We have a few fish and want to know more about aquarium set-up. It's been 20 yrs. since I seriously kept fish. I don't remember much and care of fish has apparently improved greatly over the yrs.
Kelly is wanting to put a variety of goldfish in her 44 gal. tank and I would like to see them thrive. I have been out of it so long, help is needed!

Goldfish in a tank that large will be gorgeous!!!

I love goldfish, it's just such a shame they're some of the messiest fish. Because of that I would recommend a set of under-gravel filters, as well as a carbon filter which hangs on the outside (or, they make in-tank ones nowadays which is what I have because it allows the tank to be pushed right up against a wall). You wont need a heater because goldfish like colder temps. (about 74 degrees F)

I would also recommend NOT getting normal gravel. Goldfish were all vaccuum cleaners in another life (-lol-) and they suck everything up, sometimes even swallowing the rocks. :rolleyes: So, for their safety and ease of cleaning for you, I'd say to buy the much larger "river rocks". You can usually get those in petstores as well, you just have to look harder.

I used a sheet of aluminum foil as a background on my tank. It was free and it reflects the light and looks really nice. Also, goldfish like peas and oranges. It's neat to watch them eat the orange. Just buy a fresh one, clean it, and cut it into wheels. Let them float in the water and the goldfish will eat the middle of the ring out and swim through it. -lol-

I would put no more than 5 fish in your tank, that way they can get to an impressive size. My favorite are Ryukin goldfish but the panda bear ones can be really neat. There's so much to say about keeping fish! If you have any other questions you can PM me. ^_^ I'd be glad to help. I only mentioned some not-so-common stuff here.

Thanks for the info. I know what you are talking about as far as them swallowing rocks,I had one that I had to pull a wedged rock out with tweezers!!
What foods do you feel are best. I hate to just pick anything up, just because they call it goldfish food.

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Originally Posted by Blu Mongoose

Thanks for the info. I know what you are talking about as far as them swallowing rocks,I had one that I had to pull a wedged rock out with tweezers!!
What foods do you feel are best. I hate to just pick anything up, just because they call it goldfish food.

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The only thing i can add here is the rule of thumb is 1 inch of fish per gallon.In english words if a fish will grow to 6 inches when full grown he needs 6 gallons of water room :D.

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Originally Posted by joepythons

The only thing i can add here is the rule of thumb is 1 inch of fish per gallon.In english words if a fish will grow to 6 inches when full grown he needs 6 gallons of water room :D.

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I'd throw that rule out with Goldfish...like Mindibun said...messy messy messy.;)

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Originally Posted by JBallPython

I'd throw that rule out with Goldfish...like Mindibun said...messy messy messy.;)

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Yea but with to many in one tank the ammonia will :puke: the water lol

I only buy Omega One brand food. It's much more natural. If you look at the ingredients on that it's stuff you can actually pronounce and recognize. Other brands you're like, sounding stuff out and raising an eyebrow.

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Originally Posted by joepythons

Yea but with to many in one tank the ammonia will :puke: the water lol

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Thats what he means. Going by your "1 gal for every inch of fish" rule, you could put A LOT of goldfish in there. I gave each fish 10 gallons, and you figure they'll only grow to about 6 inches. That way the water should stay clear. I think there was just a misunderstanding.

Both of us definitely argue that less fish = better water so it's all good.

Twenty inches of goldfish is way worse than 20 inches of tetras... that was basically my point...

no no, ...tetras are gross. Their poop is fine. THEY are gross. -lol-

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Originally Posted by Mindibun

no no, ...tetras are gross. Their poop is fine. THEY are gross. -lol-

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Say what!? Dislike all characins in general or just tetras?

I only like the genetically engineered radioactive glowy ones...












Kidding. I don't really have anything against them. ^_^ My boyfriend's little brother had one that lived for AGES with no filtering, no running water even, got fed like once a week if the kid remembered, and was literally swimming in algae. It wouldn't die. We called it the Jesus fish. I said it was the second coming of Jesus, and he decided to do it in fish form.

No offense to any highly religious persons.

i'm surprised no one mentioned doing water changes.
i'm not sure about freshwater aquaria , having been doing marine, but i'd do a minimum 40% water change per week, especially if you'll only be running a undergravel filter.
also, i don't think using foil or anything highly reflective is such a good idea... the fish can go crazy with the bright lights and reflections. having a black or dark blue backing also shows off your fish better anyways.
good luck with your aquarium!

I've never liked goldfish myself because of the waste, but that's what she wants. I guess if you do a water change like suggested they may not be so bad. We were wanting to get about five fish for our 44 gal. tank. We can add an undergravel filter, but how are those cannister filters that sit under the tank cabinet? Someone was telling me they are very good.

Are there any goldfish that don't mix well in a tank? We wanted to have at least one black moor.

Generally, for goldfish, you need 10 gallons per fancy goldfish. So in a 44g, I would say that you could keep 4 fancies.
I keep GFs. One thing that you need to keep track of, is the types that you combine. If, say, you put more-awkwardly-shaped ones in with comets/commons, the rounder fish might have trouble getting enough food. I do not like to combine comets and fancys, but I do have one comet in with my orandas. They seen to be doing fine..
GFs are messy fish! Frequent water changes are needed.. over-filtration works for me.
Gees, i could talk GF all day. Do you have any specific questions? :)

As for food, Hikari is the top of the line. :) I use Whisper "hang-on-back" filters and always go at least double what they recommend. I change water 2x a month, half of the water each time. I use a magnetic algae scraper for in-between-time algae removal. I don't heat my gf tank, but the temps in the room never go below 70 degrees; they like cooler water as opposed to a tropical tank.
"Magnum" canister filters are nice, but they take some education :) Mark has one in his 125-g Oscar tank. I took it apart once to clean and was immediately drenched in water! I figured it out eventually.. they work great though, just read the instructions unlike I did.

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Originally Posted by Ginevive

Generally, for goldfish, you need 10 gallons per fancy goldfish. So in a 44g, I would say that you could keep 4 fancies.
:)

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Yes this is exactly what i was refering to when i stated 1 gallon per 1 inch of fish.Sadly all goldfish are cousins to the carp and generly reach 12 inch ranges :gj:.

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Originally Posted by Ginevive

As for food, Hikari is the top of the line. :)

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Hikari is top of the line?? I suppose if we're talking Petsmart top of the line foods...:rofl:

I see the gloves already being pulled off here. :) I myself also use Omega One though I don't have goldfish at the moment. I do have (GASP) a few tetras (they took offense to the comment that they're gross and are at this moment swimming obscene patterns).

With goldfish I never added anymore then one fish per ten gallons, goldfish are messy messy messy and don't do well crowded.

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Originally Posted by JBallPython

Hikari is top of the line?? I suppose if we're talking Petsmart top of the line foods...:rofl:

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What would you recommend?
Quite honestly I use Tetra GF food and have no problems, but I have no fish that develop wens. When I was keeping lionheads, the Hikari really seemed to help in wen promotion, but it is genetics also that play a role.

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Originally Posted by Entropy

With goldfish I never added anymore then one fish per ten gallons, goldfish are messy messy messy and don't do well crowded.

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That is right. With larger comets and commons, I would sometimes even recommend only 1-2 per 55g tank. I have a comet that is about 14 inches now, and she has a 55g tank mostly to herself; there are a few smaller comets in there but they go outside in warm weather.
Has anyone ever bred GFs? I bred ranchu x telescope; quite inadvertantly actually. I got about 10 eggs that had not been eaten, and only three really survived. They are 2 ranchu and one fantail that are still alive today; neither ranchu developed a wen though (their dad really did not have it either.)

If they are the more compact species then I still recommend only one per ten gallons, the longer carp like koi, comets and others along those lines need much more room. Honestly I wouldn't keep them any more then five to a 125 gallon.

She is looking at getting tiny little compact body types. I know they grow fast. She originally wanted koi but they get huge fast.

If we had a lrg. pond I wouldn't mind. She has three she "has to have" so I think I will be able to talk her into keeping the number way down. I know how fast goldfish grow and how messy they get. Thanks everyone for the help. Any more advice is definitely welcome.

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Originally Posted by Ginevive

What would you recommend?
Quite honestly I use Tetra GF food and have no problems, but I have no fish that develop wens. When I was keeping lionheads, the Hikari really seemed to help in wen promotion, but it is genetics also that play a role.

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I'm not truthfully a goldfish fan....but I usually feed Dainichi or New Life Spectrum foods over Hikari anyday... and that's too pencilfish, a tank of NW cichlids, and a tank of African Cichlids. Not that Hikari is BAD...just not the top quality.

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Originally Posted by JBallPython

I'm not truthfully a goldfish fan....but I usually feed Dainichi or New Life Spectrum foods over Hikari anyday... and that's too pencilfish, a tank of NW cichlids, and a tank of African Cichlids. Not that Hikari is BAD...just not the top quality.

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I would like to know the advantages of them over Hikari. I am a curious person and always eager to broaden my horizons :)

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Originally Posted by Ginevive

I would like to know the advantages of them over Hikari. I am a curious person and always eager to broaden my horizons :)

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It is better quality... if it were dog food it would be purina, while New Life Spectrum and Dainichi are high grade specialty foods. I don't have the time to do a nutritional comparison, but all the information are on their websites. Basically the foods I feed are natural ingredients without fillers, they don't use corn meal like most (which fish can't process), and no artificial dyes....etc.

Hm.. this is something I will look into. Thanks for enlightening me. :)

I would strongly advise AGAINST using an undergravel filter for anything.

Anyone who has ever broken down an established aquarium that has run an undergravel filter for any extended period of time should know what I mean.

The amount of waste that gets pulled under the plates that you will NEVER get out during cleaning is amazing. I can't believe that something could live in a system like that.

I've had great results using Aqua-Clear Hang-ons and Eheim canisters.

Also don't forget about circulation. If you have a well-stocked tank, it helps a lot to have a strong powerhead in the tank moving the water around to prevent any dead spots and allow your filter to efficiently grab all of the waste.

And like Gin said, most of the successful fishkeepers I know overfilter their tank...shoot for a filter that moves enough water to completely turn over the tank 3-4 times an hour.

I agree; I do not like undergravel filtration myself either. Great biological and mechanical filtration are necessities in my book. Aquaclears and Whispers both accomplish this.. I actually am running both at the moment with great results.
I would advise against buying a used filter from an unknown source. I had one that looked fine but upon getting it home (it was packed safely and could not have broken on our drive home I am certain..) I noticed that it had a crack in the plastic and water was leaking out! Just imagine if this happened when no one was around; glad I tested it.
I also advise against overfeeding, especially with goldfish. I like to turn down stronger filters during feeding; this lessens the amount of food they suck up. This is really more of a problem with flake food in my experience.

I know I am all late... but thought I would add a little information.

I wouldn't get an undergravel filter... IMO its a waste of dough and if it gets clogged ph and ammonia levels will skyrocket and cause a mini cycle which could kill your fish. Goldfish are very dirty fish and poop A LOT.

in a 45g tank I wouldn't put more than 3 or 4 fish.. they can get pretty large. With proper water changes (25% of total water a week) and a good filter (if you don't want to mess with a canister filter Penguin and Emperor make some excellent hang on the back of the tank filters) you could manage 4 or 5. You will want to get something that will cycle about 10X your gallonage per hour.

I like to use pre washed and screened playsand for fishy substrate. I looks excellent IMO and keeps the pooh and decaying food from building up. You can just vacuum the pooh right off the top of the sand base... about 1 inch of playsand should work just fine.

You also might want to consider setting up the tank about a month before you decide to buy fish. Just set it all up like your about to add fish... go to the store buy some cocktail shrimp (cooked raw doesn't matter).. add only one to your tank and let it simmer away. This will cause a huge cycle... ammonia and nitrites will go off the chart and it might smell a lil bit (just keep the hood closed)... but when the ammonia and nitrites levels get back to 0 you will be able to add all the fish you want and not cause another mini cycle. Its just the most humane way I know to go about it.

Don't forget your test kits, go light on feedings (extra rotting food also can cause minicycling) and good luck.

I am glad that others dislike undergravel filters too :) I was astounded when I saw the dirt-pack under the gravel, when my friend sold me my 55g, that had an undergravel. The water I cleaned out was Blacker Than Dark Coffee....!

I'm late in this too...but I also agree with the 1 GF per 10 gallons rule. After moving to this small apartment, I had to get rid of my two 30's, but I still have one 10 gallon tank running with my favorite pleco and the 'feeder' GF I saved from my garter snake a few years ago. He is now about 4-5" long and keeps me pretty busy replacing filter cartridges and vacuuming his gravel.

Avoid undergravel filters like the plague! They never get totally clean and can really mess up the balances. And I also agree on getting larger 'river rock' for GF since I've had to rescue my boy quite a few times from rocks in his mouth. I'm thinking of putting both fish in a bucket with air stones for a while and totally changing out the gravel for rock soon...
My :twocents: for cleaner tanks, aside from a good carbon filter and water changes, is a nice pleco. Man, those guys will really clean house...at least they always have for me. :) No need to scrub algae, and they suck up any extra food from those accidental overfeedings. Just be careful with the type you get, since some like slurping off big flowing fins.