How well do our snakes know us?

We try to know our snakes as well as we can. But how well do they know us? They recognize us by smell, how we handle them, the vibrations of our voices, etc. Is that right? I've been thinking even more deeply about how well they know us.

If our BP is wrapped around my arm, can't he feel my pulse rate and blood pressure? If he's wrapped around my neck, wouldn't he also feel my respiration rate? Can't he also pick up on hormone or chemical emissions through his Jacobsons Organ? Like the idea that some animals/insects can "smell" fear. Could he know my mood by my smell? And as he got to know me, he might detect subtle changes in my mood. Fear, stress, anxiety, calm, relaxation, happiness, excitement, sadness, etc.

My mood (based on blood pressure, heart and respiration rates, hormone and chemical activity, maybe even my metabolism - rate of CO2 emission) might, in turn, affect the snake's mood - creating symbiotic biofeedback.

Just wondering if I'm nuts or if anyone else out there can envision this. Maybe it would help us meet in the middle on the "Does your snake love you?" thread. Not love, but something else - an intimate knowledge with corresponding attraction and interaction.

What do you all think?

I think they they become used to the environment of being handled by humans and lose their fear of it.

I really don't think they can tell us apart though. Many ppl think that their bp knows them because it acts more comfortable with them... but a snake will be more comfortable with someone who is used to handling them and makes them feel more secure... ie. you.

I not much of a touchy feely guy :) I love my snakes but I really don't think they feel the same way. Thankfully I keep them in cages so they won't leave me... hows that for controlling!!

Justin

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Originally Posted by MelissaFlipski

Maybe it would help us meet in the middle on the "Does your snake love you?" thread.

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I don't think that will ever happen.

just sayin'

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Originally Posted by MelissaFlipski

Not love, but something else - an intimate knowledge with corresponding attraction and interaction.

What do you all think?

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I think no.

I don't think my snakes care who puts their hand in their encloures...just as long as they are fed.

Again...I ask you...If your snake recognizes you then why would he be gone if you left his enclosure open.

I know there are a rare few that believe that he would just look for your pillow and curl up but nah ah.

and....

why would he bite you if he was in shed...or hungry?

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Originally Posted by jkobylka

I think they they become used to the environment of being handled by humans and lose their fear of it.

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exactly.

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Originally Posted by jkobylka

I really don't think they can tell us apart though. Many ppl think that their bp knows them because it acts more comfortable with them... but a snake will be more comfortable with someone who is used to handling them and makes them feel more secure... ie. you.

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great post Justin!

:gj:

This post reminds me of one I started ages ago. It also looked at the other end of the snake human relationship. Or, at least, I tried to get a better understanding of how snakes view us:
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?t=49584

It seems to me that snake people are just heartless, uncaring people, incapable of love, and incapable of realizing that other creatures may also have emotions. Snake people are just cruel jerks, that's all.

(Kidding guys -lol-)

Seriously though, you're gonna have to fight PRETTY darn hard to convince most of the people here that snakes think or feel any sort of emotion other than hunger. (If that could even be called an emotion.) I'm in the same boat as you, Melissa. I don't care if they'd leave me if given the chance. I feel like there's gotta be more to the whole deal. I'm not satisfied with being a heat rock in my snake's eyes. -lol-

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Originally Posted by jeffnme

Again...I ask you...If your snake recognizes you then why would he be gone if you left his enclosure open.

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so your saying you never hopped out of your window, to go to a party you weren't allowed to go to? :rolleyes:

None of my snakes care about me.....................they just want heat, water, rats, and hides. then they try to escape, so i don't what they want

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Originally Posted by reediculous

None of my snakes care about me.....................they just want heat, water, rats, and hides. then they try to escape, so i don't what they want

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Well the hides are always ... more snug? in someone else's tub. So of course they're going to try to leave.

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Originally Posted by Mindibun

I'm not satisfied with being a heat rock in my snake's eyes. -lol-

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:rolleyes:

well there is that.

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Originally Posted by reediculous

so your saying you never hopped out of your window, to go to a party you weren't allowed to go to? :rolleyes:

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Lol...I never once said that! :) I have hopped out of the window more times than I can remember...however...I came back.

If my bp's hopped (lol) out the window...I could almost guarentee they would never return!

But maybe...just maybe...they would SMELL :rolleyes: their way back home!


NOT.

:rofl:

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Originally Posted by Mindibun

Well the hides are always ... more snug? in someone else's tub. So of course they're going to try to leave.

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Oh.....so they would leave to find something more comfy?

:8:

I didn't realize that snakes were so complex.

:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by jeffnme

Oh.....so they would leave to find something more comfy?

:8:

I didn't realize that snakes were so complex.

:rolleyes:

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Don't roll your eyes at me. :P I was joking.

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Originally Posted by jeffnme

:rolleyes:

well there is that.




Lol...I never once said that! :) I have hopped out of the window more times than I can remember...however...I came back.

If my bp's hopped (lol) out the window...I could almost guarentee they would never return!

But maybe...just maybe...they would SMELL :rolleyes: their way back home!


NOT.

:rofl:

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you hopped out and crawled back...........!bad girl!

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Originally Posted by Mindibun

Don't roll your eyes at me. :P I was joking.

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:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

:rofl:

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Originally Posted by reediculous

you hopped out and crawled back...........!bad girl!

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stumbled...crawled...same difference!

:carouse:

I am a very bad girl.

:devilish:

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Originally Posted by jeffnme

stumbled...crawled...same difference!

:carouse:

I am a very bad girl.

:devilish:

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when are we meeting again? :rolleyes:

(did we just JACK THIS THREAD!)

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Originally Posted by reediculous

when are we meeting again? :rolleyes:

(did we just JACK THIS THREAD!)

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uhmmmm I hear you will be in MD soon...am I correct?

we jacked it alright!

:rofl:

I can see this is gonna make it in the QR by the end of the day.

;)

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Originally Posted by reediculous

when are we meeting again? :rolleyes:

(did we just JACK THIS THREAD!)

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Yes you jacked the thread!!!!

I do want to add this. I actually like the fact that the snakes aren't affectionate. I have a dog for that. The fact that the snakes don't care about me means that I feel a sense of realism in keeping them, like they really are just barely removed from being like they are in the wild. It makes me feel more like an explorer or scientist and less like a zoo keeper or pet trainer!

Justin

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Originally Posted by jeffnme

uhmmmm I hear you will be in MD soon...am I correct?

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you got the memo huh? this will be great!

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Originally Posted by reediculous

you got the memo huh? this will be great!

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sure did..maybe we can do lunch!

:cool:

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Originally Posted by jeffnme

sure did..maybe we can do lunch!

:cool:

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calendar marked! :banana:

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Originally Posted by reediculous

calendar marked! :banana:

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;)

you bringing your pet bunny? :8:

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Originally Posted by reediculous

you bringing your pet bunny? :8:

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:O

oh.... :8: there's that!


I soooo almost spit my dew EVERYWHERE!

im gonna have to say that im one of the people that most will say is crazy. I feel there has to be more of a connection b/w snake and human. I guess im just filling myself with the false hope that she loves daddy more then everyone else :P.

She does remain calmer when she is in my arms,neck then others though. She remains almost perfectly still when she is on me and just moves her cute little head around checking stuff out, but when she goes to others she is on the move likes its her job. Some of these people have snakes as well so i would like to assume they have some idea how to hold snakes, but i could be wrong lol.

Instinct
Instinct means something that happens automatically or naturally, eg It was almost instinctive the way that the actress acted out the scene.Instinct is the inherent disposition of a living organism toward a particular behavior. Instincts are generally inherited patterns of responses or reactions to certain kinds of stimuli. In humans they are most easily observed in behaviors such as emotions, sexual drive, and other bodily functions, as these are largely biologically determined[citation needed]. Instinct provides a response to external stimuli, which moves an organism to action, unless overridden by intelligence, which is creative and more versatile. Since instincts take generations to adapt, an intermediate position, or basis for action, is served by memory, which provides individually stored successful reactions built upon experience. The particular actions performed may be influenced by learning, environment and natural principles. Generally, the term instinct is not used to describe an existing condition or established state.

I also think this is a good place to start reading for a view on how pointless it is to argue whether they do or not feel emotions. It's a tough subject to argue.
Animal_Emotions

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

how pointless it is to argue whether they do or not feel emotions.

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I don't think it is pointless.

I may not agreee with some people on this subject but I do love for others to share their thoughts and opinions.

just sayin'

:)

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Originally Posted by jeffnme

I don't think that will ever happen.

just sayin'

I think no.

I don't think my snakes care who puts their hand in their encloures...just as long as they are fed.

Again...I ask you...If your snake recognizes you then why would he be gone if you left his enclosure open.

I know there are a rare few that believe that he would just look for your pillow and curl up but nah ah.

and....

why would he bite you if he was in shed...or hungry?

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I never said a snake wouldn't leave me. And the way it must feel to have someone help with a shed, I'd bite me, too!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mindibun

This post reminds me of one I started ages ago. It also looked at the other end of the snake human relationship. Or, at least, I tried to get a better understanding of how snakes view us:
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?t=49584

It seems to me that snake people are just heartless, uncaring people, incapable of love, and incapable of realizing that other creatures may also have emotions. Snake people are just cruel jerks, that's all.

(Kidding guys -lol-)

Seriously though, you're gonna have to fight PRETTY darn hard to convince most of the people here that snakes think or feel any sort of emotion other than hunger. (If that could even be called an emotion.) I'm in the same boat as you, Melissa. I don't care if they'd leave me if given the chance. I feel like there's gotta be more to the whole deal. I'm not satisfied with being a heat rock in my snake's eyes. -lol-

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I never said that they feel emotions - more that maybe they can detect ours. But primarily, I was trying to make my point about the blood pressure, heart and respiration rate, as well as hormones - can they detect these? (and I'll check out your thread)

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Originally Posted by jeffnme

I can see this is gonna make it in the QR by the end of the day.
;)

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Sorry, but I'm too new. What is QR?

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

I also think this is a good place to start reading for a view on how pointless it is to argue whether they do or not feel emotions. It's a tough subject to argue.
Animal_Emotions

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Like I said, I never said they had emotions. I was just wondering if anyone agreed that maybe they can sense / know us more than we realize. Don't you think your snake would notice the difference if you your heart and respiration rates and blood pressure were very high? What about "smelling" fear, etc.?

Also, I never said my snake wouldn't leave me given the chance. I'm sure he'd "smell" his way to one of your homes. He probably hates living with someone as over-sensitive as me, even though he loves me. ;) :rofl:

If your going to keep the discussion on whether or not they "can sense physiological changes in an animal or person they are near or touching"
Then yes, I totally agree. I just dont know the threshold that they can sense to. If we give off hormones or some scent of "fear" then they will probably be able to smell it with how sensitive they are.
Do I believe they recognize it as fear? No, I think they view it as high stress, discomfort, or a restless scent.

I think they pick up vibrations extremely well. Can they feel our heartbeat when they constrict? Heck yea they can. Have you ever had your Blood pressure taken? I can feel my pulse through my ears at that point.
They may be able to associate that with an animal being alive and not ready for eating, or not. I don't know.

Do I believe in biorhythms? Not in the sense that they can know or identify our moods. That again would lead to them reasoning and having the ability to understand moods or thoughts.
But for physiological reasons, they probably can tell what's going on concerning stress and eustress.

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Originally Posted by MelissaFlipski

Sorry, but I'm too new. What is QR?

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The QR is my home away from home...

lol

It's The Quarentine Room...where the "good stuff" is.

;)

I didn't mean to go off about emotions, I just couldn't think of a better word. Thats like what happened with my thread. I was only asking about how snakes "see" the world and whether or not they can recognize their owners over another person. Everyone else started arguing about emotions and whether or not snakes feel love or like one person more than another. I usually steer clear of these kinds of threads because everyone goes all wacko.

i dunno. my male snake does know me from others. he bangs his accurite against his tub when he wants my attention, when i open his tub he crawls towards my hand to get himself out he wont do it for other people. he likes hiding under my shirt. sure snakes cant feel what we would classify as love but he doesnt preceive me and a threat and also not a food item so i guess thats as close as it comes

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Originally Posted by Mindibun

I didn't mean to go off about emotions, I just couldn't think of a better word. Thats like what happened with my thread. I was only asking about how snakes "see" the world and whether or not they can recognize their owners over another person. Everyone else started arguing about emotions and whether or not snakes feel love or like one person more than another. I usually steer clear of these kinds of threads because everyone goes all wacko.

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True colors shining through, let your true colors... oh sorry. I think I might be one of those wacko's.