Ethical question

Ok, a post on fauna got me thinking (and boy do I remember now why I don't frequent fauna anymore!)...
Person A buys what is supposed to be a 100% het, turns around and later sells to Person B as 100% het. Person A then finds out some months/yr later that it is most likely not a het. How should person A handle the situation? How would you handle the situation?

I'd contact person B, explain to them the situation, and offer a refund, or exchange.

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Originally Posted by AndrewH

I'd contact person B, explain to them the situation, and offer a refund, or exchange.

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I agree then person A gets refund from the breeder ;)

I'd just get banned! But I do think person A was being dealt the wrong hand before and after the deal..

Lord have mercy that thread involves TSE and his worthless wannabe hets :mad:.This can only get ugly ;).

But what if there is no way person A will get a refund from the original breeder? Do you still refund?

Can this active thread be posted here?

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Originally Posted by JASBALLS

Can this active thread be posted here?

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I am sure its something everyone prefers to view on fauna ;).We had enough of the TSE crap back then :P

LOL Jas, it was you who got me thinking all this. I am sure people can find the OP thread if they go looking, and I am sure I won't be posting to it there.

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Originally Posted by catawhat75

LOL Jas, it was you who got me thinking all this. I am sure people can find the OP thread if they go looking, and I am sure I won't be posting to it there.

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What did I do?? LOL!!

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Originally Posted by JASBALLS

What did I do?? LOL!!

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You do everything :rofl::rofl:

Joe, I disagree, it doesn't have to get ugly and that is not my intention. I think people here usually have a bit more common sense when posting here.

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Originally Posted by catawhat75

Joe, I disagree, it doesn't have to get ugly and that is not my intention. I think people here usually have a bit more common sense when posting here.

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I was actually referring to the post on fauna :D

Ahhh, in that case I agree.

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Originally Posted by catawhat75

Ahhh, in that case I agree.

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No problem its Jasballs fault we got crossed up :rofl:

LOL, it always seems to be Jas's fault doesn't it? (just teasing Jas, you know you make me laugh).

Morally you have to decide what is right and what is wrong. If it's wrong to decieve someone even though you've been decieved yourself, then you should notify them and offer to refund the purchase price. If you feel no responsibility for passing along getting lied to, then there is no moral wrongness and life goes on.

Now ethically, that's another matter completely. Ethically you should notify them and see if they want to work something out or just let things stand. But ethically to be silent would be morally wrong because ethically you need to speak up about wrongs.

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Originally Posted by catawhat75

But what if there is no way person A will get a refund from the original breeder? Do you still refund?

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I'd still refund, or exchange. There is no reason to ruin your name, because the 'breeder' you had purchased from before wanted to make a quick buck....Sounds rather snotty, but its in best interest.

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Originally Posted by AndrewH

I'd still refund, or exchange. There is no reason to ruin your name, because the 'breeder' you had purchased from before wanted to make a quick buck....Sounds rather snotty, but its in best interest.

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Doesn't sound snotty at all. I agree that I would contact the customer and work something out. It just sucks that so many innocent people got taken in this whole mess. Greed is a horrible thing. I do know that when I sell hets, they will be hets I have bred for and can prove they are hets. I know there are people who flip, but it is not something I care to get into.

Just for clarification - if it adds to the conversation, you may provide a link to the thread that is being discussed.

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Originally Posted by wilomn

Morally you have to decide what is right and what is wrong. If it's wrong to decieve someone even though you've been decieved yourself, then you should notify them and offer to refund the purchase price. If you feel no responsibility for passing along getting lied to, then there is no moral wrongness and life goes on.

Now ethically, that's another matter completely. Ethically you should notify them and see if they want to work something out or just let things stand. But ethically to be silent would be morally wrong because ethically you need to speak up about wrongs.

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Call me a bad breeder, Because I dont know how to contact half the people I've sold to.. Only the ones that keep in touch..

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Originally Posted by catawhat75

But what if there is no way person A will get a refund from the original breeder? Do you still refund?

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I have sold hets that I have bought. I bought them under good faith and sold them under good faith. However if they turned out to not be hets beyond a resonable dought I would give the money back and offer my full appologies. I would let the person I bought the hets from know they didn't prove out, but would leave it up to them to offer anything.

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Originally Posted by JASBALLS

Call me a bad breeder, Because I dont know how to contact half the people I've sold to.. Only the ones that keep in touch..

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Yes, I suppose personal contact would be the ONLY way of trying to get the information out there. Wouldn't it?

I don't suppose you could exercise your ability to post anywhere else in the whole world wide web to try to get that info out there, could you? And, further down that lane, I don't reckon you could tell anyone you know in person or meet at shows, or ANY other way, than personal contact, that you were now suspicious of the snakes you sold.

I mean, I would NEVER think of any other way unless I had a reciept with a phone number on it so I don't suppose anyone could expect you to either.

As you want it so shall it be, you're a bad breeder.

Why do you set me up like this?

AHAHAhahahahaHAHAHAHAhahahahahAHAHAHAhahaahahaH

If you care you make SOME effort, any effort. If you don't care you just sit and wait. The choice is ENTIRELY up to you.

I wouldn't originally sell any hets that I didn't produce myself as 100% hets. I would sell them as "I bought these as 100% hets from so and so at this place on this date. I haven't proven them out yet." If they turn out to not be hets, I'd work with them and call the breeder to see what he says. If he offers anything I would pass it on to my buyer. I would probably charge less than what the average het is going for, but I'm being honest and I think that takes some liability off me. If I sell something as a guaranteed het and it proves to be normal, I think I'd owe a refund.

Off topic, JAS, what action in particular got you banned? Is it temp or perm??

Ok Robin, I didn't want to post w/o permission first. The original thread is here:
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...d.php?t=106047

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Originally Posted by Morphie

Off topic, JAS, what action in particular got you banned? Is it temp or perm??

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Looks to be perm! I aint paying Squat to get back in there..



jasballs,

You are fined and suspended from this site due to your warning level. Your access to this site will be blocked until you pay the fine that is now due.

To get your access back, you have to pay $50 USD via paypal. If you choose to do so, please proceed to the paypal page to pay the fine that is due.



Thank you,
FaunaClassifieds.com Administration

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Originally Posted by JASBALLS

Looks to be perm! I aint paying Squat to get back in there..



jasballs,

You are fined and suspended from this site due to your warning level. Your access to this site will be blocked until you pay the fine that is now due.

To get your access back, you have to pay $50 USD via paypal. If you choose to do so, please proceed to the paypal page to pay the fine that is due.



Thank you,
FaunaClassifieds.com Administration

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:8:


Jas....you been a baaaaad....booooooy.....

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Originally Posted by jeffnme

:8:


Jas....you been a baaaaad....booooooy.....

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What else is New? LOL!!!

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Originally Posted by wilomn

As you want it so shall it be, you're a bad breeder.

Why do you set me up like this?

AHAHAhahahahaHAHAHAHAhahahahahAHAHAHAhahaahahaH

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I do this all the time LOL!

Interesting how differently it reads when you take the whole post in context, isn't it?

You got booted from fauna not for being a "bad boy" but for being an obnoxious ass. There is a WORLD of difference between the two as well we both know.

You won't really be missed over there though, dimwits are less than a dime a dozen.

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Originally Posted by wilomn

Yes, I suppose personal contact would be the ONLY way of trying to get the information out there. Wouldn't it?

I don't suppose you could exercise your ability to post anywhere else in the whole world wide web to try to get that info out there, could you? And, further down that lane, I don't reckon you could tell anyone you know in person or meet at shows, or ANY other way, than personal contact, that you were now suspicious of the snakes you sold.

I mean, I would NEVER think of any other way unless I had a reciept with a phone number on it so I don't suppose anyone could expect you to either.

As you want it so shall it be, you're a bad breeder.

Why do you set me up like this?

AHAHAhahahahaHAHAHAHAhahahahahAHAHAHAhahaahahaH

If you care you make SOME effort, any effort. If you don't care you just sit and wait. The choice is ENTIRELY up to you.

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Originally Posted by wilomn

Interesting how differently it reads when you take the whole post in context, isn't it?

You got booted from fauna not for being a "bad boy" but for being an obnoxious ass. There is a WORLD of difference between the two as well we both know.

You won't really be missed over there though, dimwits are less than a dime a dozen.

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Cool! I'm a dimwit...

lmao @ the concept of paying a fine to revisit a forum.

like uh... no? lol! :8::8:

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Originally Posted by Morphie

lmao @ the concept of paying a fine to revisit a forum.

like uh... no? lol! :8::8:

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Well, it's not like they ban people for no good reason. :-)

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Originally Posted by slartibartfast

Well, it's not like they ban people for no good reason. :-)

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Uh... Like what was the good reason??

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Originally Posted by JASBALLS

Uh... Like what was the good reason??

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So you're saying you just post and run, that you never read what you write?

That's the only logical way I can see you asking that question as if you've read your posts over there you know good and well several good reasons.

For example, ASKING them to boot you. Remember that?

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Originally Posted by wilomn

So you're saying you just post and run, that you never read what you write?

That's the only logical way I can see you asking that question as if you've read your posts over there you know good and well several good reasons.

For example, ASKING them to boot you. Remember that?

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Willy, You have a problem with me? If so pm, or email me.. If not can't we all just get along!!

**text in bold italics added by dr del to keep it all friendly like**

Gentlemen, the discussing of why a person got banned at another site is about as off topic as one can get in a general herp thread. I would suggest you both either take this into PM if you wish to continue to sling insults at each other or discuss it a a seperate quarantine room thread.

Thank you.

Well, here's my take on this subject:

Any breeder/dealer/seller who buys "hets" from someone and then sells them....only to find out later that they are not really hets at all....they are going to do what they want. SOME are going to own up to the situation and do their best to make good for their customer. Some are going to decide they don't think it's fair that they get shafted for something someone else did, so they won't do anything at all.

I'm not going to demand that someone make the same moral or ethical choice that I would make in this situation...however, their choice will make it very easy for me to decide who I will do business with in the future.

If I were in the shoes of the person who bought and sold the hets...I would not hesitate to do whatever I could to contact my customers and do my best to make them whole again. This might include offering to give them other snakes, if I had them to give...or offering a refund on the monies spent for hets that turned out to be normals.

I would be pretty upset to know that I got shafted by so-n-so...but the LAST thing I would want to do is feel responsible for shafting anyone else, whether I'd done so knowingly or not. A person willing to "pass the shaft" on to his/her customers is not someone I would want to do business with.

Judy, that was very well put.

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Originally Posted by JLC

Well, here's my take on this subject:

Any breeder/dealer/seller who buys "hets" from someone and then sells them....only to find out later that they are not really hets at all....they are going to do what they want. SOME are going to own up to the situation and do their best to make good for their customer. Some are going to decide they don't think it's fair that they get shafted for something someone else did, so they won't do anything at all.

I'm not going to demand that someone make the same moral or ethical choice that I would make in this situation...however, their choice will make it very easy for me to decide who I will do business with in the future.

If I were in the shoes of the person who bought and sold the hets...I would not hesitate to do whatever I could to contact my customers and do my best to make them whole again. This might include offering to give them other snakes, if I had them to give...or offering a refund on the monies spent for hets that turned out to be normals.

I would be pretty upset to know that I got shafted by so-n-so...but the LAST thing I would want to do is feel responsible for shafting anyone else, whether I'd done so knowingly or not. A person willing to "pass the shaft" on to his/her customers is not someone I would want to do business with.

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nuff said! Seriously, you just ended all need to further discuss this issue. So why am i still talking? I ... really... don't know..