grades of pastel

okay, I purchased a male pastel from a forum member but the feeling that I've gotten lately is that its not a great quality pastel, this feeling also coming from the person I purchased him from. Call me a newbie on this, I wasn't too sure on what to look for and when I selected him, he looked the brightest to me out of the bunch (thought that was a major part of what to look for).

I purchased him with the plans of eventually breeding him to a spider and cinni (you can see where I'm going with this) and at some point to my het pied female. My question is, do I see how he looks as he ages, hope he keeps his bright color and hope he produces some nice prodigy or get another male pastel from better lineage and has brighter coloring? Is there hope for a pastel that may brown out to help it produce brighter hatchlings? if so, how is this done.

any comments, thoughts, input is encouraged, welcomed and will be seriously considered. thanx all.

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Originally Posted by Ladydragon

okay, I purchased a male pastel from a forum member but the feeling that I've gotten lately is that its not a great quality pastel, this feeling also coming from the person I purchased him from. Call me a newbie on this, I wasn't too sure on what to look for and when I selected him, he looked the brightest to me out of the bunch (thought that was a major part of what to look for).

I purchased him with the plans of eventually breeding him to a spider and cinni (you can see where I'm going with this) and at some point to my het pied female. My question is, do I see how he looks as he ages, hope he keeps his bright color and hope he produces some nice prodigy or get another male pastel from better lineage and has brighter coloring? Is there hope for a pastel that may brown out to help it produce brighter hatchlings? if so, how is this done.

any comments, thoughts, input is encouraged, welcomed and will be seriously considered. thanx all.

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Well sadly some lines of pastels do tend to "brown out" when older.What line is this pastel out of ? I tend to like the lemon or Graz(not sure how to spell the rest lol) lines.

pastells only fade with age. i have only seen a small hand full that dont. if you are not happy with him as a juvi your best bet is to sell him and find one you like more. the way i pick out a nice pastell is to look at both the mom and dad. keep in mind that the best one out of a buch in a good group is good. but the best out of a bunch of junk is not so good.
if i were you and i was not happy. i would sell my pastell and buy another morph. if you are planning on breeding. male pastells were and are going for 75 buck this fall. i can only think what they will hit next year. it makes me sick to see this but if that is the market that is the market. i would go for a nice mojo or something like that affordable but not too pricy.

it is a graziani pastel line I can post some pics if that will help.

sure go for it

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Originally Posted by Ladydragon

it is a graziani pastel line I can post some pics if that will help.

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OK sounds good to me :D

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Originally Posted by Ladydragon

it is a graziani pastel line I can post some pics if that will help.

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dont get me wrong graziani is the king of all pastels. he had them first. but his line is known for being a tad darker than others. i have seen some animals that if you didnt know what to look for you would think they were normals. but when put together make supers. i have a lemon.
there are some that say the line dosnt matter as they are all the same thing. and just branched out from a few different wild cought snakes. this has been proven with the fact that when you breed all the different lines together they all will make supers. (correct me if i am wrong) wich i also think is true so that is why when i buy a pastel i dont relly even look at what line it is. as long as it is stunning. my buddy jake just bought a nice blond that is awesome. then you see another blond and it is relly bad.

see I was thinking that as well Matt. Just go for what looks good to you. I picked him because I liked the way he looked. so what can I do to help get brighter hatchlings from him? Pics in a sec. :D

breed him with another pastel. LOL
seriously breed him with the lightest normal female you can find.

okay.. here are the pics.

original pic I chose him from. he is on the far left
http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l7...astelsall6.jpg

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l7...drgnrutger.jpg

in blue in this photo
http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l7...LDragnPasM.jpg

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l7...gonPastelM.jpg

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Originally Posted by Ladydragon

see I was thinking that as well Matt. Just go for what looks good to you. I picked him because I liked the way he looked. so what can I do to help get brighter hatchlings from him? Pics in a sec. :D

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Breed him to your nicest females. Or a Hypo LOL!
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...rpastel024.jpg

that is not a bad looking one at all. i was thinking it would look normal. LOL
he has nice blushings on his black saddles.
there are a couple in the pick that are nice.
if you like him i say feed him and grow him up and breed him.
if you dont like him i say feed him and grow him up breed him one year then sell him the next around breeding season as a proven breeder.

kick ass looking snake jas. i just bought a proven orange ghost male tuesday.

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Originally Posted by JASBALLS

Breed him to your nicest females. Or a Hypo LOL!
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...rpastel024.jpg

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thats a pastel female? good god thats bright. thats gorgeous.

what line is that jas

Bell line pastel x Bell line het hypo..

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Originally Posted by MATT FISHER REPTILES

that is not a bad looking one at all. i was thinking it would look normal. LOL
he has nice blushings on his black saddles.
there are a couple in the pick that are nice.
if you like him i say feed him and grow him up and breed him.
if you dont like him i say feed him and grow him up breed him one year then sell him the next around breeding season as a proven breeder.

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thanx matt. see I thought I was doing good in picking him, but I guess still being a newbie I was doubting myself. :D I do like him and do plan on breeding him. So I guess my job is to find a clean, light normal female. Preferable reduced pattern to really help keep things clean. I could breed him to the het pied female I'm getting, but I want to strictly breed her to the het pied male to get my pied first. maybe a second clutch approach? we'll see how that goes I guess.

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Originally Posted by Ladydragon

thats a pastel female? good god thats bright. thats gorgeous.

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No he's a him lol. Thanks

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Originally Posted by JASBALLS

No he's a him lol. Thanks

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lol my bad :oops:. either way gorgeous snake.

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Originally Posted by Ladydragon

thanx matt. see I thought I was doing good in picking him, but I guess still being a newbie I was doubting myself. :D I do like him and do plan on breeding him. So I guess my job is to find a clean, light normal female. Preferable reduced pattern to really help keep things clean. I could breed him to the het pied female I'm getting, but I want to strictly breed her to the het pied male to get my pied first. maybe a second clutch approach? we'll see how that goes I guess.

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Looking at him again, And seeing a pic of his dad I'd through him an a dark granite type female.. See what happens...

Here he is now :) His father was a bit browned out, but out of the Pastels that he sired this year:
-Two are exceptionally bright with alot of yellow and little orange that turns to brown; the two females. I sold one and held back the other.
-Two males might brown out on their toplines like their dad, but they have super-awesome blushing and light heads for sure. These are yours (Ladydragon) and one that I traded for my striped male in a trade/cash deal.
-The rest were relatively orangey to begin with and are really not bad at all; they almost had a mahogany blushing type of coloration. Those I sold to a local shop at wholesale prices. I priced my pastels accordingly as to how they were/are marked. As their dad threw such a variety of babies (all but one female pastel were from the same mom) it just shows that sires can father babies that are browner or yellower than they are.
I had the opportunity to see a NERD line lemon pastel at the guy's shop. WOW! Paid a lot more than I paid for my Graz or sold my babies for, though. that's for sure!
Here yours is now. I am getting completely fed up with FedEx, and mark left them a terse message today; they are not calling us back.. our rep must be a complete slacker or something. I swear I am thinking of just driving the snake down to you since you are only in PA, but I am not sure what part. Argh...
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s...ppppppppas.jpg

I don't think the line of pastel means anything much, but I think it's best to shoot for the best looking example of that line. There are great examples of all lines and crap examples (So to speak by comparison) of all of them.

There are so many graziani pastels out there that we tend to think they are the darker. You don't see as many examples of the other lines, so the perception is that Graziani pastels brown out more. This is probably assisted by people breeding them to anything just to get a pastel and a few bucks.

That one isn't a bad example, I'd bred him to lighter looking females to at least shoot for some good looking off spring... just my 1.3c

And congrats!

When looking for pastels to hold back, I tend to look for the lightest yellow ones. From what I've seen the dark yellow and orange ones tend to brown out the worst when they get older. However, having said that, the only male I held back from last year was a very orange looking pastel. I expect he will brown out as he gets older, however I really liked the clean banded pattern he has. I plan on breeding him to the lightest females I have. I guess time will tell if I can eventually produce a real light yellow pastel with a clean banded pattern.

Mark

thanx jenn.. that is one of the best pics I've seen of him yet. he looks more yellow in that pic than the other ones I have of him. I guess the best option is to either get a really light reduced pattern normal female or a really bright pastel female or even a lemon or blonde pastel female and hopefully that will help get bright pastel babies. Heh Jenn.. you may have to make a road trip!! Fedex doesn't want to cooperate with you. O.o

I don't see why everyone refers to darker pastels as pieces of crap. I bought my Graziani knowing that he would brown out some (he did.) But I personally love the blushing on my snake; it is something that, unlike pretty yellow, I know is not going to fade away. And one of the coolest snakes in my opinion is a super pastel Graziani with lots of blushing. My snake's sire was a SP like that, and his browns and darker areas actually made him look like an awesome snake.
I don't know. Everyone has their own preferences and people seem to dislike darkened pastels. But is it necessary to say that they are inferior per se? They might be valued less, I can understand that; they have less of the bright yellow that differentiates them from a normal. But though I personally dislike spiders with many spots on them, I do not go around spouting "spotted Spiders are ugly!" because there are people out there that might like that and they really are not "ugly" to me, just more "normal." I would not own a Spider that was very spotted, and would never purposely buy one; if I produce females this year out of my spotless male that have a few dots, so what.. I would still hold one back.. but it is not what I would prefer.

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Originally Posted by Ladydragon

thanx jenn.. that is one of the best pics I've seen of him yet. he looks more yellow in that pic than the other ones I have of him. I guess the best option is to either get a really light reduced pattern normal female or a really bright pastel female or even a lemon or blonde pastel female and hopefully that will help get bright pastel babies. Heh Jenn.. you may have to make a road trip!! Fedex doesn't want to cooperate with you. O.o

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I know; I feel so mad about them doing this. I feel like a real ass even though it is not really anything I can change.. I will send you a PM in a sec :)

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Originally Posted by Ginevive

I don't see why everyone refers to darker pastels as pieces of crap.

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Well, I'm not. At not point do I call any bp a piece of crap.... it's a description to compare browned out color to great examples. In a so to speak way to get the message across.

Any bp that hatches has earn't the right to live as good a life as any other morph or normal out there.

I guess its just "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" thing. Although there is something to be said for those bright pastels. they just seem to shine. live and learn I guess too. :D

Pastels vary even within the same line. I have some that are browner than others and price them accordingly. I think yours is fine. I have graziani, bell, blonde and nerd lemon but i don't pick them by lines but more by the individual snake. if you like her thats all that matters.
Here is the jewel of my pastels, he is a Bell line orange ghost.

http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w...OGTopGlass.jpg

Raul, I can see why you are proud of that boy! He is smoking! :D

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Raul, I can see why you are proud of that boy! He is smoking! :D

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Yeah, ditto on that! :)

It all depends on what you like.

I have a comparison shot here of a Bell Line Pastel and a Lemon Pastel, both good quality animals.

Depending on the breedings, they can come out many different ways...

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b2...s/P1030501.jpg

yeah i can see the difference. it really does come down to a personal preference, but coming from good stock does help. the bell line pastel is on the left? would that be considered a blonde pastel? forgive me if I'm wrong, I'm still trying to train me eye to all the different morphs and the variations that fall within them. both of those are beautiful.

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Originally Posted by Ginevive

I don't see why everyone refers to darker pastels as pieces of crap.

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ginevive. i went back through and re-read this thread and i did not see where the word crap was used once. i am very sorry if i offended you in any way. i beg your forgiveness :bow:
notice after seeing pics i said it was a good litter of pastels. :gj:
i have alloways thought you bring a lot to the table around here.

just keep in mind someday you will be at a show and you will see what is souposed to be a pastel and the only word that will come to mind is crap LMAO :8: :banana:

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Originally Posted by MATT FISHER REPTILES

notice after seeing pics i said it was a good litter of pastels. :gj:

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Psst...boas have litters, ball pythons have clutches. ;)

This is my lemon pastel, at 1100 grams:
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...stonBlush2.jpg

ooh such lemony goodness. and nice blushing as well. :D thats a nice example.

side note, what rack system do you have that in, as I see a divider. thanx.

I love Pastels...But I agree that most do brown out with age...Here are some old pics of my a few of my holdback females...All from the same daddy -
BT

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k9...4-11-07013.jpg
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k9...29-2007051.jpg
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k9...1-21-06020.jpg
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k9...1-21-06013.jpg

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k9...8-21-06016.jpg

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k9...8-21-06009.jpg

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k9...8-22-06016.jpg

I hope I can help here. I got a male and a female as baby's the male was way bright and the female disappointing, but i trusted the guy I got them from and he said the female will be the stunner at an older age. She is Yellow while he is sort of a tanish yellow

Her she is as a baby
https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil.../0/FPastel.JPG

Here she is at 850 grams
https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...8/0/fempas.JPG

Now the male
Baby
https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...pastelmale.jpg

Adult
http://www.wildmorphs.com/uploads/repticzone/pastel.JPG

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Originally Posted by Ladydragon

ooh such lemony goodness. and nice blushing as well. :D thats a nice example.

side note, what rack system do you have that in, as I see a divider. thanx.

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It's a HerpEnclosures Rack with optional dividiers, from his Elite line.

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

I hope I can help here. I got a male and a female as baby's the male was way bright and the female disappointing, but i trusted the guy I got them from and he said the female will be the stunner at an older age. She is Yellow while he is sort of a tanish yellow

Her she is as a baby
https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil.../0/FPastel.JPG

Here she is at 850 grams
https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...8/0/fempas.JPG

Now the male
Baby
https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...pastelmale.jpg

Adult
http://www.wildmorphs.com/uploads/repticzone/pastel.JPG

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wow.. what a difference. thanx everyone that gives me hope for my guy. :D

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Originally Posted by rabernet

It's a HerpEnclosures Rack with optional dividiers, from his Elite line.

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oohh.. how do you like it? I was looking at a few of their rack systems. was contemplating the 5 bin subadult/adult rack. seeing as how Im really going to need to get a rack system and soon. :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ladydragon

oohh.. how do you like it? I was looking at a few of their rack systems. was contemplating the 5 bin subadult/adult rack. seeing as how Im really going to need to get a rack system and soon. :D

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LOVE it! That's the one that I'm using.

Robin, maybe someday if we nudge him enough Justin will let Winston meet that eye popping girl in his pastel/clown thread. I'm sure there would be a heck of a waiting list on that clutch.

Not the best shot in the world, but here's a bell and a graziani side by side. Bell is on the left.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y21...PastelPair.jpg

Graziani as a baby
http://www.ball-pythons.net/gallery/...POMcontest.jpg


I don't have any pictures of her as an adult on this computer. I had a hard drive failure with all of my photos on it:tears: I'll have to take some new ones.

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Originally Posted by Entropy

Robin, maybe someday if we nudge him enough Justin will let Winston meet that eye popping girl in his pastel/clown thread. I'm sure there would be a heck of a waiting list on that clutch.

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I think you're on to something! ;)

Yes, yes we are. And so in light of my brilliant idea I want to be first on the list. :D

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Originally Posted by Entropy

Yes, yes we are. And so in light of my brilliant idea I want to be first on the list. :D

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I'll have to make a list and check it twice... :)

I'm pretty sure that that my pastel pied from this year will be the first to make an honest woman out of her.

He'll actually probably get to breed the clown from that tread too.


Just to add to this thread, here's a hatchling pic the pastel I produced in '05 that later unexpectedly proved to be het pied.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...tel006_web.jpg

And a new pic of the pastel pied he unexpectedly produced this year.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...a/P1030783.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...a/P1030785.jpg


Justin

well, I'm second and third on that list. :D especially since I started this thread ;) lol
thanx for the comparison shot Schlyne.. nice snakes

Justin.. I want that pastel pied. Just send it my way, it will have a happy home here. seriously though, I definitely want on that list to get a Kobylka line pastel pied.