The Ball Python Industry

What do you feel is lacking in the Ball Python Industry?

What do you feel are great things about it?

In my opinion the respect and class that breeders like Bob Clark, Dan and Colette Sutherland, Ozzieboids, and others brought to it are missing. It appears that most breeders now think it's cool to be unshaved, unkempt and dirty.

The most awesome thing is the numerous morphs that are being discovered, and the potential that remains to make discoveries.

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Originally Posted by LadyOhh

What do you feel is lacking in the Ball Python Industry?

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Lacking? Well for one control on the part of the smaller breeder. I think RDR, NERD, BHB and a few others have exhibited control well. In their control of the number of animals and the makings of animals in the market, where would Phantom prices be if RDR wanted to see a phantom in every collection. Or would we be still be dieing over the crystal ball if that special female was given away from the get go take super striper's and some of the other stuff floating around that is still back door, under the table stuff where would that stuff be with out control they'd? be right there with pastels and some of the others quickly approaching corn snake morph prices.
I feel that there needs to be more light shed on what a person needs to understand and have knowledge of before becoming a "basement breeder" no offense Brian :P. I think if people could stifle their greed/excitement/whatever long enough to learn what it takes to breed, not just pairing and incubating but the business aspect of it the market would be far more stable than it is.

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What do you feel are great things about it?

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I love the endless possibilities with the animals. I love the friends/acquaintances I have made in this hobby. I love the fact that I can call Kara or Adam or Tim or Sean and shoot the breeze and get just as excited about their albino pin or Pin het axanthic as I am about my het pied girl hitting 600 grams.
Its great that a known Herper can stand before the Texas State Legislation and not be looked at as an odd ball but rather a learned person who's input is needed to help pass laws. I love that an estimated 10 million people in the US own reptiles. I love that we as herpers/breeder/keepers have an animal like the ball python that is popular enough to reach the public with our hobby in a positive way.

I love that people Like Brian and Kev and Adam and Kara and so many others have worked so hard to build not just the ball industry but the image that they are caring animal lovers who have merely found away to live the dream of doing what you love to earn a living.

I am glad the names in the industry have set the bar high with such a great example for people like me and others who want to follow in their footsteps. With out that hight it would take no discipline or effort to achieve.

Sorry if I rambled

well said freaky dinky froggie man :P i concur

freakie frog said it all!!!!!!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by LadyOhh

What do you feel is lacking in the Ball Python Industry?

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The industry lacks seperation from the hobby. Sometimes it seems like they are one in the same with so many people hobbiest focused on producing and selling their animals and showing concern about the status of the 'market'.

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Originally Posted by LadyOhh

What do you feel are great things about it?

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The animals :D They just do their thing...and they do a good job at it!

...the people make everything else complicated with their focus on 'industry' when they should be focusing on their ball pythons ;)

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

Lacking? Well for one control on the part of the smaller breeder. I think RDR, NERD, BHB and a few others have exhibited control well. In their control of the number of animals and the makings of animals in the market, where would Phantom prices be if RDR wanted to see a phantom in every collection. Or would we be still be dieing over the crystal ball if that special female was given away from the get go take super striper's and some of the other stuff floating around that is still back door, under the table stuff where would that stuff be with out control they'd? be right there with pastels and some of the others quickly approaching corn snake morph prices.
I feel that there needs to be more light shed on what a person needs to understand and have knowledge of before becoming a "basement breeder" no offense Brian :P. I think if people could stifle their greed/excitement/whatever long enough to learn what it takes to breed, not just pairing and incubating but the business aspect of it the market would be far more stable than it is.



I love the endless possibilities with the animals. I love the friends/acquaintances I have made in this hobby. I love the fact that I can call Kara or Adam or Tim or Sean and shoot the breeze and get just as excited about their albino pin or Pin het axanthic as I am about my het pied girl hitting 600 grams.
Its great that a known Herper can stand before the Texas State Legislation and not be looked at as an odd ball but rather a learned person who's input is needed to help pass laws. I love that an estimated 10 million people in the US own reptiles. I love that we as herpers/breeder/keepers have an animal like the ball python that is popular enough to reach the public with our hobby in a positive way.

I love that people Like Brian and Kev and Adam and Kara and so many others have worked so hard to build not just the ball industry but the image that they are caring animal lovers who have merely found away to live the dream of doing what you love to earn a living.

I am glad the names in the industry have set the bar high with such a great example for people like me and others who want to follow in their footsteps. With out that hight it would take no discipline or effort to achieve.

Sorry if I rambled

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That too!:)

The only thing bad about the industry is the people who are in it strictly for $.

Most breeders genuinely care and enjoy the animals but some importers, for example, put the many animals in horrific conditions to make a quick buck.

The great thing is there are now so many beautiful, healthy CB snakes and an amazing amount of morphs to enjoy and collect. They are now more affordable than ever to more people and the hobby will only increase in popularity.:snake:

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

Lacking? Well for one control on the part of the smaller breeder. I think RDR, NERD, BHB and a few others have exhibited control well. In their control of the number of animals and the makings of animals in the market, where would Phantom prices be if RDR wanted to see a phantom in every collection. Or would we be still be dieing over the crystal ball if that special female was given away from the get go take super striper's and some of the other stuff floating around that is still back door, under the table stuff where would that stuff be with out control they'd? be right there with pastels and some of the others quickly approaching corn snake morph prices.
I feel that there needs to be more light shed on what a person needs to understand and have knowledge of before becoming a "basement breeder" no offense Brian :P. I think if people could stifle their greed/excitement/whatever long enough to learn what it takes to breed, not just pairing and incubating but the business aspect of it the market would be far more stable than it is.

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If you're referring people who get into it hoping to make a quick buck, then I agree with you. But if you're referring to people who breed for a hobby, and frequently breed to make stuff they can't afford, then I disagree. There are several morphs that I can't afford, so I bought the ingredients to make them. So the ones that I don't plan on keeping I'll try to sell, hopefully make some money back, but realistically that's not gonna happen. Prices are going to go down; as there's more supply, prices fall. And to a certain extent I'm somewhat glad that they are because many morphs that weren't previously affordable by people are (especially those who are in it for the love of the snakes). But again, I agree 110% with you about people who do it for all the wrong reasons; they not only ruin the market, but tarnish the hobby as a whole.

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I love the endless possibilities with the animals. I love the friends/acquaintances I have made in this hobby. I love the fact that I can call Kara or Adam or Tim or Sean and shoot the breeze and get just as excited about their albino pin or Pin het axanthic as I am about my het pied girl hitting 600 grams.
Its great that a known Herper can stand before the Texas State Legislation and not be looked at as an odd ball but rather a learned person who's input is needed to help pass laws. I love that an estimated 10 million people in the US own reptiles. I love that we as herpers/breeder/keepers have an animal like the ball python that is popular enough to reach the public with our hobby in a positive way.

I love that people Like Brian and Kev and Adam and Kara and so many others have worked so hard to build not just the ball industry but the image that they are caring animal lovers who have merely found away to live the dream of doing what you love to earn a living.

I am glad the names in the industry have set the bar high with such a great example for people like me and others who want to follow in their footsteps. With out that hight it would take no discipline or effort to achieve.

Sorry if I rambled

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Agreed.

I'm not sure that the industry is lacking anything. It's the perfect example of a free market. You have the big guys who have been in the business for years, and, consequently, have many of the biggest morphs. And then you have the little guys who start into the market... they're the ones that keep the market going, keep the prices low enough for new people to break in.

It's a lot like the airline business (studied it as a minor in college ;) ) After deregulation, many of the big business airlines found themselves scrambling to figure out how to keep their costs down with all the new airlines entering the business---the industry went from having like 8 airlines to around 400. Things have evened out a bit now---ain't competition beautiful???---and you now have a variety to pick from: you can get top notch, first class service for a pretty penny on one of the big boy airlines... or, you can go with a cheaper airline ticket, and not have an assigned seat (fight for the window seat!).

Same thing in the reptile industry... you pay a big buck for good stock, or you take a chance on a little guy. It's capitalism in action, and it's awesome!

LOL... did I get off topic?

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

Lacking? Well for one control on the part of the smaller breeder. I think RDR, NERD, BHB and a few others have exhibited control well. In their control of the number of animals and the makings of animals in the market, where would Phantom prices be if RDR wanted to see a phantom in every collection. Or would we be still be dieing over the crystal ball if that special female was given away from the get go take super striper's and some of the other stuff floating around that is still back door, under the table stuff where would that stuff be with out control they'd? be right there with pastels and some of the others quickly approaching corn snake morph prices.
I feel that there needs to be more light shed on what a person needs to understand and have knowledge of before becoming a "basement breeder" no offense Brian :P. I think if people could stifle their greed/excitement/whatever long enough to learn what it takes to breed, not just pairing and incubating but the business aspect of it the market would be far more stable than it is.

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You appear to be lamenting what is called a "free market economy" while advocating what is generally referred to as "anti-competitive business practices".

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Originally Posted by bearhart

You appear to be lamenting what is called a "free market economy" while advocating what is generally referred to as "anti-competitive business practices".

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i am all for a free market economy. if exxon mobile, bp, and other oil companies get together and say "hey, let's all raise gas prices at the same time" it's a crime. but what some people seem to be advocating is the same thing on the part of breeders.

JonV

I think that the number one thing lacking in the ball python industry right now is patience. Everyone is such a rush ... for so many it has to be "right now". My question is, at what expense? The animals aren't going anywhere ... slow down, relax, have FUN!!!

The best thing about this hobby? ... The animals ... for me, it's ALL about the animals ... everything else is just background noise.

-adam

That's fair enough. But, money is always going to motivate people like almost nothing else. I imagine there are alot of people with $$ signs in their eyes and very little understanding of what it takes to earn them.

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

The best thing about this hobby? ... The animals ... for me, it's ALL about the animals ... everything else is just background noise.

-adam

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I'll agree that the best thing about the hobby are the animals, I mean...they are the reason most of us are in the hobby in the first place. The variety of patterns and colors is incredible, and it is just the beginning.

However I also enjoy the hobby because I have been able to network with some great people and make some awesome friends along the way. Its great to see friends enthusiastic about their own projects and animals day in and out, and see some of those projects come to fruition.

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

I think that the number one thing lacking in the ball python industry right now is patience. Everyone is such a rush ... for so many it has to be "right now". My question is, at what expense? The animals aren't going anywhere ... slow down, relax, have FUN!!!

The best thing about this hobby? ... The animals ... for me, it's ALL about the animals ... everything else is just background noise.

-adam

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I am with adam. I started breeding animals yes partly to sell for money so I could afford the things I couldn't afford. Basically for better animals and equipment and cages... SO yea definately for more animals.

The thing I dislike the most is the secrecy. All the 'hidden' morphs and mutations in peoples collections that they just hint at and tease us with. I understand the secrecy, people just want to protect their investment, but after a certain amount of time it just feels like they're rubbing our faces in it. I think in the long run all the secrecy will end up doing more harm then good. I've always believed that everyone benefits from a free flow of information.

The best part of it is of course the animals, after all they're the only reason I'm doing this in the first place.

Mark

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Originally Posted by MarkS

The thing I dislike the most is the secrecy. All the 'hidden' morphs and mutations in peoples collections that they just hint at and tease us with. I understand the secrecy, people just want to protect their investment, but after a certain amount of time it just feels like they're rubbing our faces in it. I think in the long run all the secrecy will end up doing more harm then good. I've always believed that everyone benefits from a free flow of information.

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If you had a project that you had invested more than what most people's car is worth, would you want every tool out there on the internet knowing exactly what's going on with it, and probably taking every opportunity to take advantage of that information? The fact is that if you are interested in the project and are serious about getting into it, that breeder will tell you everything you need to know. Just because it's not public on the internet doesn't mean that the information isn't out there. The internet is a big part of the hobby for most of us, but it is truely a small part of the industry as a whole.

Don't feel like anyone is rubbing anything in your face - it's just marketing...are you offended by all the exotic sports cars behind that glass at the Ferrari or Porshe dealership? I look at so called "unattainable morphs" the same way...

All of those "holy grail" type morphs would not exist if it weren't for the demand for them and the financial gains that once could receive by satisfying that demand. If ball morphs weren't worth anything, would a trapper in africa dig through the dirt to find them? Would a breeder in the US pay thousands of dollars to get it exported? Would that breeder invest in caging, racks, rat colonies, buildings, etc etc in order to reproduce those animals? Just food for thought...

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Originally Posted by ladywhipple02

I'm not sure that the industry is lacking anything. It's the perfect example of a free market. You have the big guys who have been in the business for years, and, consequently, have many of the biggest morphs. And then you have the little guys who start into the market... they're the ones that keep the market going, keep the prices low enough for new people to break in.

It's a lot like the airline business (studied it as a minor in college ;) ) After deregulation, many of the big business airlines found themselves scrambling to figure out how to keep their costs down with all the new airlines entering the business---the industry went from having like 8 airlines to around 400. Things have evened out a bit now---ain't competition beautiful???---and you now have a variety to pick from: you can get top notch, first class service for a pretty penny on one of the big boy airlines... or, you can go with a cheaper airline ticket, and not have an assigned seat (fight for the window seat!).

Same thing in the reptile industry... you pay a big buck for good stock, or you take a chance on a little guy. It's capitalism in action, and it's awesome!

LOL... did I get off topic?

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Not to be a wise guy, but the Airlines are pretty much either fighting off banctruptcy or have gone out of business altogether and the prices are higher than ever with the quality of service worse than ever. Its not a healthy industry at all. I hope that you are not correct about the similarities.

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If you had a project that you had invested more than what most people's car is worth, would you want every tool out there on the internet knowing exactly what's going on with it, and probably taking every opportunity to take advantage of that information?

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If I were investing that much into a project, I wouldn't be advertising it at all. If you want to keep something secret, then DON'T TELL ANYBODY. Instead I see breeders leaking out tidbits of info here and there and giving out sneak peaks to a select few that then go out to the forums to advertise for them (everyone likes free advertising don't they???). It seems that people want to get credit for discovering and producing the morph before all the work of figuring it out is done, without the risk that someone else, who may be working on a similar project, gets the chance to name it and exploit it first. Sounds like a classic case of wanting to have your cake and eating it too.

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are you offended by all the exotic sports cars behind that glass at the Ferrari or Porshe dealership? I look at so called "unattainable morphs" the same way...

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Sure, I like to look at them. But I also know that I can go to the dealers website and look up the specs and find out exactly what goes into them and how they perform. Porsche and Ferrari know that people aren't even going to talk to a salesperson based on looks alone.

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Originally Posted by MarkS

If I were investing that much into a project, I wouldn't be advertising it at all. If you want to keep something secret, then DON'T TELL ANYBODY. Instead I see breeders leaking out tidbits of info here and there and giving out sneak peaks to a select few that then go out to the forums to advertise for them (everyone likes free advertising don't they???). It seems that people want to get credit for discovering and producing the morph before all the work of figuring it out is done, without the risk that someone else, who may be working on a similar project, gets the chance to name it and exploit it first. Sounds like a classic case of wanting to have your cake and eating it too.

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Well then...I think we would both agree on one thing that is a huge bummer in the ball pythons industry:

Egos!

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Originally Posted by bearhart

You appear to be lamenting what is called a "free market economy" while advocating what is generally referred to as "anti-competitive business practices".

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Not in the least. Because in an anti-competitive business many of the tactics practiced by those in it are what have hurt the industry as we know it today
Anti-competitive practices can include:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-competitive_practices

• Dumping, where products are sold into a market at a low price which render competition impossible, in order to wipe out competitors.
• Exclusive dealing, where a retailer or wholesaler is ‘tied’ to purchase from a supplier.
• Barriers to entry (to an industry) designed to avoid the competition that new entrants would bring.
• Price fixing, where companies collude to set prices, effectively dismantling the free market.
• Dividing territories, e.g., you get everything west of the Mississippi, we take everything east
• Limit Pricing, where the price is set by a monopolist to discourage economic entry into a market.
• Product tying, where products that aren't naturally related must be bought together; this prevents consumer choice.
• Resale price maintenance, where resellers are not allowed to set prices independently.
• Coercive monopoly - all potential competition is barred from entering the market

These are the things that have driven the market into the crapper. Dumping being the biggest one.

What I am "lamenting" over is the slim that does what ever it takes to make as much money as fast as they can with no long term commitment to the market in which they operate.

Example: if I have 200 pastels and everybody else is selling them for 150.00 and I just can't sell them fast enough so I sell mine for 75.00. Because my over head and capitol expenses are lower than most everyone else's my commitment to the market maintenance is lower than theirs and so I dump the market. Now to maintain sales everyone else must lower their prices in order to compete.

Which is why if your doing this as a hobby and not to pay the bills you shouldn't have a problem pricing your animals competitively within the market mean. But if your just trying to move as much product as quickly as you can you "Price to Move".

Hope that clears up my thinking

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Well then...I think we would both agree on one thing that is a huge bummer in the ball pythons industry:

Egos!

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Yup, Egos do tend to get in the way of real progress.

Mark

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Originally Posted by MarkS

Yup, Egos do tend to get in the way of real progress.

Mark

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Just curious how so.

Why do people get so frustrated that they don't know what is in the Inferno, or what the Super Lori looks like.

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Originally Posted by dsirkle

Not to be a wise guy, but the Airlines are pretty much either fighting off banctruptcy or have gone out of business altogether and the prices are higher than ever with the quality of service worse than ever. Its not a healthy industry at all. I hope that you are not correct about the similarities.

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Actually, that answer isn't wise at all :)

The airline industry is NOT going bottoms up. On the contrary, it is healthier and more competitive than ever. You have to take a step back from the news headlines and rumors to really appreciate it.

Yes, many of the big boys have gone under... but only because they couldn't---or wouldn't---match the up and coming low cost carriers. And their places have been filled by others: either lower-cost carriers or legacy carriers that were willing to modify themselves.

The same thing happens in all free markets. Lets say there was a breeder out there still trying to sell regular albinos for $5000 a pop. Think he'd get it done? Nope... he'd go belly up and little breeders would rush to fill his place. The big boys can still charge a little more for their name and quality, but let's face it... if they don't move with the tide and at least keep their prices in the ball game, they're done for.

I can send you a couple text books on the airline industry if you want... amazing stuff, really.

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

Why do people get so frustrated that they don't know what is in the Inferno, or what the Super Lori looks like.

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Because they don't understand the mechanism causing the delay in 'announcement'.

After Brian's interview on reptile radio, it was pretty clear that he held out on the Super Lori until the website and show go online. Great marketing!! All those people who wanted (and demanded) photos will most likely tune in and check everything out. I wouldn't have done things any different and appreciate what Brian did from a business perspective as a main component to this INDUSTRY. However, from my HOBBY perspective, I really would have liked to see some more shots of the Super Lori sooner. See once again, people do not know how to seperate the hobby from the industry. I have seen a couple of people use the two words interchangably in this thread too.

With the Inferno, I really have no clue what Kevin's intentions are......ha ha...either he knows what goes into the Inferno and is waiting to see if he can make more before saying anything, or he crammed so many freakin' morphs into one animal that he is waiting to be certain that it is what he thinks it is ;).... No big deal to me though......what makes any of us important enough to know what is going on 'behind the scenes'?....Coke does not give out is recipe for soda, Ms. Fields doe not give out her recipe for cookie dough......why should Kevin give out his recipe for a morph? ....I think people are too greedy and impatient to wait to find out the real deal....ha ha....and you are just going to see more and more 'secrets' as people start producing more animals with 5-8 genes in one morph....better get used to it ;)

Love the animal's the color's and endless oppurtunitys with them. I'm with Adam let's try to tune everything else out.

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it was pretty clear that he held out on the Super Lori until the website and show go online. Great marketing!!

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Brian has been teasing us and making promises for over two years and you call this great marketing??? I pretty much have to disagree with that. I used to be excited about seeing the Super Lori too. But after that much time has passed with nothing new forthcoming, I frankly don't care anymore. If you don't add anything new to the plot, You can only hold an audiences attention for so long before they lose interest.

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Originally Posted by LadyOhh

What do you feel is lacking in the Ball Python Industry?

What do you feel are great things about it?

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Great thread Heather!

Animals are number 1 always

What I'd change.

I just wish there were mooore people. Even though it's growing daily it seems the community is still pretty small as far as hobbies go. Although you wouldn't know it coming to Bp.net cause there's tons of peps here!!!!!:O:O

Friends are just a click away!! you gotta love that

:salute:

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Originally Posted by Larry Suttles

Great thread Heather!

I just wish there were mooore people. Even though it's growing daily it seems the community is still pretty small as far as hobbies go. Although you wouldn't know it coming to Bp.net cause there's tons of peps here!!!!!:O:O

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I'm doing my part in speading the news, we are going to take a few of the our BPs to my son's 6th grade science class next week. Our normal male will eat anywhere, anytime so we are going to put on a little show. He eats f/t so we will not totally freak out the girls. :D Hopefully we will have a few kids interested in taking any normals we produce....

The snakes are the best part of the industry and the folks in it JUST for the money are the worst.....

Jen

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Originally Posted by MarkS

Brian has been teasing us and making promises for over two years and you call this great marketing??? I pretty much have to disagree with that. I used to be excited about seeing the Super Lori too. But after that much time has passed with nothing new forthcoming, I frankly don't care anymore. If you don't add anything new to the plot, You can only hold an audiences attention for so long before they lose interest.

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So when Brian posts a video showcasing the Super Lori, you won't check it out to satisfy your curiosity because he avoided mass distribution of photos of a unique animal for so long?

Audiences may lose interest, but their interest is usually easily regained.

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

What I am "lamenting" over is the slim that does what ever it takes to make as much money as fast as they can with no long term commitment to the market in which they operate.

Example: if I have 200 pastels and everybody else is selling them for 150.00 and I just can't sell them fast enough so I sell mine for 75.00. Because my over head and capitol expenses are lower than most everyone else's my commitment to the market maintenance is lower than theirs and so I dump the market. Now to maintain sales everyone else must lower their prices in order to compete.

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I think I understand you pretty well. In the pastel example you gave, I would argue that it simply demonstrates that pastels aren't really worth $150 and that a higher supply has caused a market correction.

As you mentioned, this would indeed squeeze the big guy (although dumping is traditionally the way a big guy, who can operate more cheaply, starves out the little guy). However, let's assume that some sort of closet setup can get it done more cheaply. I don't disagree that its hard luck for somebody charging more but I simply see that as simple free market operation - and totally desirable.

I do agree that there is an ethical issue here in how well the animals are treated. Also, I would think that an experienced breeder could produce superior specimens of the same type. But, if the customer is not savvy enough, or does not care, then their investment there is lost.

This reminds me of the history of the American car industry. The Japanese ravaged it for, what, two decades? Were they (American companies) victims, sure. Was it wrong? I don't think so because they were not actually giving the customer the best thing possible. They were charging a premium for inferior vehicles.

Now, to be clear, this is all kind of hypothetical based on your (Freakie_Frog's) posts. I don't have enough personal knowledge to pass judgement on the BP industry so, please nobody take offense.

[QUOTE=ladywhipple02;658707]Actually, that answer isn't wise at all :)

The airline industry is NOT going bottoms up. On the contrary, it is healthier and more competitive than ever. You have to take a step back from the news headlines and rumors to really appreciate it.

Well I may have been misled by the newspapers. Maybe the US automotive manufacturers are also doing well contrary to the newspapers reports. But I am flying to Las Vegas in December and I will see how it goes. No thanks on the textbooks. I have a CFP doing my thinking for me these days.

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So when Brian posts a video showcasing the Super Lori, you won't check it out to satisfy your curiosity because he avoided mass distribution of photos of a unique animal for so long?

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IF it ever happens, of course I'll watch it out of curiosity. But not to see the super lori. After this much hype and secrecy, it better be made out of solid gold and encrusted with diamonds just to meet peoples expectations. I am curious to see what the rest of the show will look like though.

Mark

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Originally Posted by MarkS

IF it ever happens, of course I'll watch it out of curiosity. But not to see the super lori. After this much hype and secrecy, it better be made out of solid gold and encrusted with diamonds just to meet peoples expectations. I am curious to see what the rest of the show will look like though.

Mark

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This is a VERY good point. Anyone with a knack for business will tell you teasers work... as long as they aren't drawn out. Movie studies don't start advertising until a month or two before the movie hits theaters. There's a reason for it. If they hype it too much prior to release, the payoff is going to be a movie that can never meet the hype.

People lose interest quickly in virtually anything. I think Brian really over did it making everyone wait this long, just for photos. I think Tom has done very well with the Crystal, as has NERD with the Inferno. Secrecy is dandy as long as the animal is spectacular enough to warrant the secrecy. And as Mark said, short of being made of solid gold, the Super Lori probably won't meet expectations.

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Originally Posted by ladywhipple02

Actually, that answer isn't wise at all :)

The airline industry is NOT going bottoms up. On the contrary, it is healthier and more competitive than ever. You have to take a step back from the news headlines and rumors to really appreciate it.

Yes, many of the big boys have gone under... but only because they couldn't---or wouldn't---match the up and coming low cost carriers. And their places have been filled by others: either lower-cost carriers or legacy carriers that were willing to modify themselves.

The same thing happens in all free markets. Lets say there was a breeder out there still trying to sell regular albinos for $5000 a pop. Think he'd get it done? Nope... he'd go belly up and little breeders would rush to fill his place. The big boys can still charge a little more for their name and quality, but let's face it... if they don't move with the tide and at least keep their prices in the ball game, they're done for.

I can send you a couple text books on the airline industry if you want... amazing stuff, really.

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Well Lady Whipple, I just returned from a trip to Las Vegas. I had not flown anywhere since pre 09/11. I had taken several flights in the preceding years.I found the Airbuses to be a much nicer plane than the DC 9's of the past. The efficiency overall seemed to be better than it was in the past.Both airports had been rebuilt since I had last traveled. I must concede that I had formed an opinion based on what I had read in newspapers and my experience did not bear this out. I stand humbled before you.