Het DNA

Does anyone know what would be involved, or if it would even be possible to do DNA testing on high priced morphs to find genetic markers that could identify possible hets with certainty? I imagine that if it were possible, it would be too expensive to attempt to run a series of tests on homozygous and heterozygous morphs to figure it out. I was just wondering if this has ever been discussed. I would think that if it were possible and breeders started finding the genetic markings for all the different hets, beside checking all your poss. hets, one could eventually test any wc normal for markers to prove out new lines, and maybe even find het markers for undiscovered recessive morphs.

it would cost more then the het was worth. DNA testing is not cheap.

not to mention it would take quite a bit of research, which costs a ton.

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Originally Posted by PythonWallace

Does anyone know what would be involved, or if it would even be possible to do DNA testing on high priced morphs to find genetic markers that could identify possible hets with certainty? I imagine that if it were possible, it would be too expensive to attempt to run a series of tests on homozygous and heterozygous morphs to figure it out. I was just wondering if this has ever been discussed. I would think that if it were possible and breeders started finding the genetic markings for all the different hets, beside checking all your poss. hets, one could eventually test any wc normal for markers to prove out new lines, and maybe even find het markers for undiscovered recessive morphs.

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sure you can do dna tests on any animal or plant. knowing what the hell your looking for is completly diffrent. find out which chromosome the pictular trait you are after is on, and which gene then know which one is which (hetero or homo) and your all set.

having a dna test should not be too expensive, however getting detailed information may be as most testing is just done to match A to B (parent to child or link crimes)

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Originally Posted by Lokua

sure you can do dna tests on any animal or plant. knowing what the hell your looking for is completly diffrent. find out which chromosome the pictular trait you are after is on, and which gene then know which one is which (hetero or homo) and your all set.

having a dna test should not be too expensive, however getting detailed information may be as most testing is just done to match A to B (parent to child or link crimes)

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Thanks, that is what I meant. It would definately be a long process scanning through DNA of several morphs, normals and hets to find what you are looking for, but I was wondering if it would even be possible, say if one day DNA testing is cheap and readily available.

One day it could be possible and cheap, but right now it isn't.

In order to tell us a het has the trait or not we would have to discover what the trait looks like under a microscope. Unfortunately you can't just look for the little a's.

It could be done, but it would take a very very long time.

Gotcha. That's what I thought.

Well now! I think it would be awesome if someone mapped the snake genome (?) It sure as heck would make things easier to understand! Like with rats, they are so studied, and there is a lot of literature on what certain genes and their modifiers do, and what happens when they dont get where they're going and it creates certain colors and patterns when you do this because of that. I think it would clear a lot of stuff up. Just something to chew on.

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

Well now! I think it would be awesome if someone mapped the snake genome (?) It sure as heck would make things easier to understand! Like with rats, they are so studied, and there is a lot of literature on what certain genes and their modifiers do, and what happens when they dont get where they're going and it creates certain colors and patterns when you do this because of that. I think it would clear a lot of stuff up. Just something to chew on.

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It took 16 years and $3 billion to finish sequencing the human genome. And nearly 10% of human DNA were never studied (Heterochromatin).

As for a "snake genome" that isn't really possible. Every species has different (sometimes significantly) DNA, so genome mapping would be required for each species. While I'm sure there will be more scientific study of ball pythons in the future, a map of the bp genome isn't forthcoming in our lifetime.

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Originally Posted by jhall1468

It took 16 years and $3 billion to finish sequencing the human genome. And nearly 10% of human DNA were never studied (Heterochromatin).

As for a "snake genome" that isn't really possible. Every species has different (sometimes significantly) DNA, so genome mapping would be required for each species. While I'm sure there will be more scientific study of ball pythons in the future, a map of the bp genome isn't forthcoming in our lifetime.

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This is more of the answer I was looking for. Thanks, Justin.

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Originally Posted by Brimstone111888

One day it could be possible and cheap, but right now it isn't.

In order to tell us a het has the trait or not we would have to discover what the trait looks like under a microscope. Unfortunately you can't just look for the little a's.

It could be done, but it would take a very very long time.

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It won't EVER be cheap, and possible is many years in the future. It's not as simple as looking at it under a microscope. The discovery of a mutant allele requires an incredible amount of research and funding, and that's just the process for determining what causes a very specific trait.

Once that's done, you still have the cost of DNA analysis for each and every snake (and testing can cost thousands of dollars each). At this point in time, trial and error is about the only thing you can do without investing literally tens of thousands of dollars to determine if you have a het albino.

They can identify currently the genetic makeup of certain dog breeds (Mutts). It is relatively inexpensive and only needs a cheek swab.
$60, as I understand it. It was an article in Money Magazine recently or something like that.

PROBLEM IS:

Dogs are MUCH more popular than snakes, and even with that being said, the research for said snakes would be long and arduous.

The market for snake genetic identification is still relatively small... So to have people get out and do it, the motivation is not quite there yet.


I would love to see it done, but... yeah.

If they finished mapping the human genome how is it not possible to map a ball python genome? I also said one day it could be possible, not in 10 years. I have worked with a professor who has discovered 2 genes in his time. I know it is a very huge task and not very likely. I also said its not as easy as looking under a microscope, so I am not sure what you are arguing.

So to "DNA test" our snakes we would first have to isolate the genes that are responsible for the color morphs, which probably aren't straight forward for the really cool looking morphs (eg. linked, multiple loci, etc.). THAT is where the money comes in, it could take a few years of research to figure out exactly what makes a Pied...pied. The good thing is there are lots of great geneticists out there who probably have a good idea as to exactly where to start looking, 1-5 years max. The problem is getting them to work on snakes, and that is our biggest obstacle.

As far as I can tell they have only gotten the Anolis genome sequenced (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?db=genomeprj), but the point is it's on the way, a lot faster than you might suspect. Yes it took 3 billion to sequence our genome but that was already years ago, and in the field of molecular genetics that is ancient history (the pricetag is down to a few million already, which is still a lot of money but getting cheaper fast http://www.genengnews.com/articles/c...aid=939&chid=1 ...that's a great article, just a little out of date). Advances have vastly increased productivity, there is technology in development now that will streamline whole genome sequences in a matter of an afternoon (5-15 years away). So once we have identified our morph-genes, then a simple test is needed which could probably be done on a single computer chip sized machine (in development as well, computer-chip-sized sequencers). And by the time anyone DECIDES to figure out our morphs, then the technology will be there and will be super cheap. I have the feeling that with the high pricetag on some of these morphs there will be an incentive within the next 10-15 years for someone to pony up and get everything figured out.

The point is...it WILL happen in our lifetimes, and it may happen in some of our snakes lifetimes.

cgrinter, that's some interesting stuff. I have yet to read the links your provided, but that sounds like exciting news if you're correct about the fast paced technological advancements in these fields.

I'm involved heavily in DNA "barcoding" of small segments of mitochondrial DNA from insects (http://www.boldsystems.org/views/login.php). Basically, it costs us about 5 dollars per animal sequenced, granted it's only about 600-1000 basepairs of the mtDNA, but its cheap, and a LOT of money is getting spent doing it. Anyway, its a fast test to help delimit species boundaries and is somewhat analogous to what we are looking for in the morph-test.

Interesting job you have. Thanks for the replies. I was starting to kick myself for asking such a stupid question, but maybe it wasn't so bad.

Yeah, DNA "testing" is relatively cheap these days. I work in a lab where we're currently using map-based cloning to clone a gene in Medicago truncatula and running reactions, getting DNA sequence, etc just isn't that expensive now a days. But the problem with screening ball pythons (or other snakes) is that I can't think of a reason to do so other than scientific curiosity. Which unless there is a possible eventual benefit for people; it often doesn't get funded.

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Originally Posted by cgrinter

(the pricetag is down to a few million already, which is still a lot of money but getting cheaper fast http://www.genengnews.com/articles/c...aid=939&chid=1 ...that's a great article, just a little out of date).

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Well, the NHGRI wanted to bring the price down to $100,000 by 2009, and they aren't even close yet ;). Granted, it's considerably cheaper than it was 15 years ago, but I still consider $2-3 million a little outside my spending limit :P.

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Advances have vastly increased productivity, there is technology in development now that will streamline whole genome sequences in a matter of an afternoon (5-15 years away).
...
The point is...it WILL happen in our lifetimes, and it may happen in some of our snakes lifetimes.

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You have more faith in the new technologies than I do ;). I've read a bit about what U of H and 454 have been doing, but I think they're eyes are bigger than their stomachs. Granted sequencing a virus or bacteria in one day is ages faster than even a year ago, but the human genome is... what, 3 billion base pairs? Versus bacteria and viruses, some of which don't even have a million.

As much as I would love to see genetic sequencing turn into a one day event at a cost of $1000... I think those numbers are a bit over the top. I hope I'm wrong ;).