How long do they really live?

Ok...I have read all the care sheets and common knowledge says Balls can live 25+ years in captivity. But as you read comments on the internet and such you see people commenting on their Ball's dying well short of this. Now I am sure some of this has to do with accidents and such but it started me thinking what are people seeing as the actual life span of a captive raised Ball (as a species - not single animal) ? This may be a question few can answer as we haven't had them long enough...but I would like to hear from some people with any facts.

Can a ball that lives in a box (tank or tub) with no real excercise - that eats a constant meal at a constant time frame live as long as one that has more ups/downs in their diet (means less fat and more muscle), more environmental exposure (meaning more resistance to disease and such) and more need to excercise (to find food)?

Just curious if I should be planning to put my snakes into my will and also if certain changes in care could lengthen their lifespan. :)

A ball can live 20+ years. I really think it depends on that snake, it's background/history, and it's owners husbandry efforts. I know Pete's original Pied is at least 20 years old, maybe a bit older since Pete guess he was about 10 when he got him. That snakes really looks like a wise old man.

On the other hand some snakes die young for no reason at all. They are fine and bam one day you just find one dead. Some are older then others, some extremely young. I do believe it really does play in to the bloodlines and how the snake is kept. Just my 2cents.

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Originally Posted by lillyorchid

A ball can live 20+ years. I really think it depends on that snake, it's background/history, and it's owners husbandry efforts. I know Pete's original Pied is at least 20 years old, maybe a bit older since Pete guess he was about 10 when he got him. That snakes really looks like a wise old man.

On the other hand some snakes die young for no reason at all. They are fine and bam one day you just find one dead. Some are older then others, some extremely young. I do believe it really does play in to the bloodlines and how the snake is kept. Just my 2cents.

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That's interesting and I agree with your points...but it makes me wonder. The original pied...was is captive born or an import? What about his other snakes? It goes back to my curiosity if an import would be more robust then a CB. It is like the bubble boy...live your entire life away from disease and natural stresses and you aren't equipped to deal with diseases, hence a shortened life.

The other thing your posts brings up is by all the imbreeding and selective breeding are we creating genetically deficient animals.

This might be a good thesis for my Ph D. LOL

Funny! I was going to post a similar thread today, asking "How old is your oldest BP?" I wanted to get a survey going to see what kind of lifespans people were seeing, too.

Mr. Old Man Pied as I like to call him was a WC import from Africa. Pete also has a bunch of WC females who are all up in their teens now. Probably some of the biggest girls I've seen. I do believe that CH babies may have a "few more years" on them since they aren't all inbred, over bred, and have years of different morphs in them.

I think over breeding, inbreeding, and all those genetic combo's do play a roll on how long a snake will live also.

Also, keep in mind a lot of 'may live up to' numbers have the longest known lifespan cited. The oldest known housecat lived to be 36. Most housecats live to be around 18. It's quite a discrepancy.

What might be revealing is if folks who have old snakes actually have an autopsy done when they die, and determine the actual cause of death. Few people actually die of 'old age'--it's generally heart disease, or stroke, etc.
What captive snakes tend to die of when they are old might uncover something we could change, which could possibly help them live longer.

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Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

Also, keep in mind a lot of 'may live up to' numbers have the longest known lifespan cited. The oldest known housecat lived to be 36. Most housecats live to be around 18. It's quite a discrepancy..

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This is what started me thinking too. The longest lifespan vs. the "norm".

Perhaps Adam, Kara, Tim and some of the others with large collections will chime in here about their experience. Especially as it relates to the WC vs. CB lifespans.

I have heard that they live for as long as 30 plus years. I think Tracy at VPI told me that she had one live for as long 26 years. Hope this helps.


Brock :rockon:

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Originally Posted by Brock Wagner

I have heard that they live for as long as 30 plus years. I think Tracy at VPI told me that she had one live for as long 26 years. Hope this helps.

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Do you know if they were WC or CB animals? Also, in your collection how old are yours...any early deaths (ie. under 20 years) that wasn't a known accident?

Thanks

I think that she told me her snake was a wild caught or maybe even a captive hatch I don't know. My oldest female that I can verify from the guy that I got her from is 10 years old. But I could have some normal breeder girls that are older and I just don't know it. When I was buying normal girls they were hard to find so I would get one here and there. I wish I knew how old Pear was. I am not sure if they will die early from old age or not. I hope not. Heck some of them in my collection might outlive me!


Brock

I have females in my collection that I got 20 years ago as adults or subadults so who knows how old they really are, but at least 22, 23 maybe?

I also have CB females that I produced 11 years ago.

I think that with proper care, ball pythons can live a very long time.

I'm not trying to start a debate or anything, but it is my personal belief that many of the shorter life spans in ball pythons are due them being drastically over fed in captivity.

Hope this helps.

-adam

This is a great thread first of all. My oldest female is only an 03. To me she just seems so old.

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

but it is my personal belief that many of the shorter life spans in ball pythons are due them being drastically over fed in captivity.

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I feel the same way about inbreeding in the captive population. I think the level to which some people inbreed these snakes to produce morphs is pretty selfish.

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

I'm not trying to start a debate or anything, but it is my personal belief that many of the shorter life spans in ball pythons are due them being drastically over fed in captivity.


-adam

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You're supposed to feed them once a week, right? I don't own one yet but I just wanted to know.

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Originally Posted by MechWarrior

You're supposed to feed them once a week, right? I don't own one yet but I just wanted to know.

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Yes but size of rodent has alot to do with that too. In the wild they would eat alot less then once a week and would get WAY more exercize.

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

I have females in my collection that I got 20 years ago as adults or subadults so who knows how old they really are, but at least 22, 23 maybe?

I also have CB females that I produced 11 years ago.

I think that with proper care, ball pythons can live a very long time.

I'm not trying to start a debate or anything, but it is my personal belief that many of the shorter life spans in ball pythons are due them being drastically over fed in captivity.

Hope this helps.

-adam

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This helps alot and I think there is something here. As I thought, initial feedback seems to lead to the fact that WC have lived longer...once we start looking at CB animals that longevity isn't as established. I think you are right that smaller meals could be one way to extend their lives. I think there is a lot of correlation to humans - those that live sedentary lives with high fat/calorie diets are more likely to die early. This same outcome seems to be showing up with Ball's as well. By decreasing the food intake of our snakes could be the easiest way to increase life span. Since we don't have any scientific research on the actual calorie needs of WC and CB snakes we have to look at anicdotal evidence. Your 11 year old CB are some of the longest lived(that I have received feedback on) and we know you feed much smaller meals. I think this gives us a good indicator of a way to improve our snakes life span...even if not a 100% accurate assumption there appears to be no downside to feeding smaller meals and only a positive.

according to mr richard bartlett, the captive record is 47 years... it's in two different books i have written by him. i dont have anymore info on that record though.
as an aside, i agree with adam... if you fed a ball more conservatively, it would likely live much longer than if it were fat and sassy.

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

I have females in my collection that I got 20 years ago as adults or subadults so who knows how old they really are, but at least 22, 23 maybe?

I also have CB females that I produced 11 years ago.

I think that with proper care, ball pythons can live a very long time.

I'm not trying to start a debate or anything, but it is my personal belief that many of the shorter life spans in ball pythons are due them being drastically over fed in captivity.

Hope this helps.

-adam

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I've been cutting back on meal sizes but I've realized I don't really know how to gauge the proper weight. All I've really read is that when they are obese, the skin can stretch to the point where the scales don't cover it all. I guess this effect is like what you see on their necks when they eat. I also guess that your snake is probably overweight long before that happens.

My BP has developed two little strips of fat on each side of his body. Should he be totally lean? Also, he's only 13mos old so should I be worried about weight right now? He's just shy of 3' long and I'm currently feeding him 1 small rat per week.

Hey Adam, do you breed them at that age?