is ventilation needed?

I read the document on tank setup here, very nice. I see on some peoples setups, that they have no ventilation. The entire top is covered by something, with a hole just big enough for the light.

I tried that on mine, i coated the entire top with aluminum tape, and left a hold perfectly sized for the light. Wife says that mold will build up with nowhere for the moisture to go, but i see other people do it on here.

Will mold build up? And is this a good way to insulate? I will add a layer of duct tape on top of it followed by another layer of foil.

You want a balance between fresh air exchange and heat/humidity retention. Basically, the more air you let in and out, the faster the heat and humidity escape. Most of the time, the space that is left open for the heat lamp provides enough ventilation while also preserving the temps and humidity.

Besides, when using a heat lamp - you don't have to worry about moisture hanging around - the bulb usually sucks most of the moisture out of the air as it is. ;)

I think when you find the balance for keeping both heat and humidity up to par, you wont have to worry about mold growing.

I know that you can have mold grow in the substrate if its too wet. So thats something else to think about.

No mold here. And I even cover half of that opening with a moist paper towel to up humidity when she's showing signs of shed.

I think your wife is basing what she says on figuring the cage will remain covered...but it won't. You open it for a few minutes at least every other day to spot clean and change water, not to mention to handle your snake (except the two days after feeding of course). This fact, and the fact that you NEVER soak the substrate but just mist it if you need more humidity, means that the hole for the lamp is adequate ventilation.

here are some pics of my setup.

Currently there is a 50watt bulb, a few mins ago i went and got a 75 regular bulb, and a 75 infra red bulb to play with. The temp on the bottom is reading about 82, so it needs to be warmer on the warm side. I also just bought 2 fluker stick on temp and humidity gauges and a piece of foliage for the right side.

I covered the top in aluminum tape.. The light is another story, the dood at petco recommended this over a regular light. This one had a frame that made it sit 6 inches above the tank. So i enclosed it. The top 1 inch of the light is open because it got so hot near the bulb that burned myself, now i can touch it.

I am also gunna go buy a reptile mat to put on the bottom to keep them off of the glass if it gets too hot to burn,, which it doesnt seem to be.
Any tips or recommendations is appreciated.
For some reason the IMG script wasnt working. So i just posted as links

pic 1
pic 2

and yes those are 2 snakes in the same tank. If they start having probs, i will separate them. When i got them, i didnt know that they shouldnt be together..... even though it is just a matter of opinion. I have talked to plenty of people that have multiple snakes together and they are fine

No, it's not a matter of opinion.. Snakes kept together experience alot of stress. It is only a benefit to the keeper(not really since you'll have twice the vet bills when they get sick) to house them together.

Snakes are not social creatures, they do not appreciate each other's company. If one regurgitates from stress, how do you know which one it was? If one had an abnormal bowel movement, how do you know which one did it? Ball Pythons and other Boids have been known to be cannibalistic in times of stress, so one day you may come home to one large snake in the tank or two dead snakes, one from being partially digested and regurged, the other from the damage the regurgitating did.

It is not a smart thing on your part to keep them together. One is going to be dominant over the other and the subordinate snake is going to be the one getting sick, not eating, regurgitating out of stress, not properly thermoregularting because the other one doesn't allow it to..

Separate them, it will only lead to problems if you don't.

Edit: It looks like there are THREE in the tank, two in one hide, one in the other.. Which isn't even set up properly whatsoever. How do you know what temperatures and humidity they are experiencing, when it's not even being measured properly?

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Originally Posted by jseber1982

and yes those are 2 snakes in the same tank. If they start having probs, i will separate them. When i got them, i didnt know that they shouldnt be together..... even though it is just a matter of opinion. I have talked to plenty of people that have multiple snakes together and they are fine

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Here we go again.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SatanicIntention

No, it's not a matter of opinion.. Snakes kept together experience alot of stress. It is only a benefit to the keeper(not really since you'll have twice the vet bills when they get sick) to house them together.

Snakes are not social creatures, they do not appreciate each other's company. If one regurgitates from stress, how do you know which one it was? If one had an abnormal bowel movement, how do you know which one did it? Ball Pythons and other Boids have been known to be cannibalistic in times of stress, so one day you may come home to one large snake in the tank or two dead snakes, one from being partially digested and regurged, the other from the damage the regurgitating did.

It is not a smart thing on your part to keep them together. One is going to be dominant over the other and the subordinate snake is going to be the one getting sick, not eating, regurgitating out of stress, not properly thermoregularting because the other one doesn't allow it to..

Separate them, it will only lead to problems if you don't.

Edit: It looks like there are THREE in the tank, two in one hide, one in the other.. Which isn't even set up properly whatsoever. How do you know what temperatures and humidity they are experiencing, when it's not even being measured properly?

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There are 2, not 3. Im not gunna come on here and lie.
And if you read what i posted above, you would see that i just bought 2 more thermometers today(digital) also got 2 more humidity gauges. Tell me that is is not setup properly whatsoever is not entirely helpful

yea i know i turned it into a flame post, oh well. Now everybody is gunna gang up on me and tell me how cruel i am being

I have to keep them up high right now because i have a 2yo and a 4yo. I dont have another place to set a second tank yet. Cant set anything down low. I am not just gunna put it in a rubber maid and put it in the closet which is the only place i really even have space right now.

I didnt find you guys until after i bought them. I talked to a bunch of people that i work with that have snakes and they all said that its ok to put them together. So now i have a second one which needs a different container which i dont have room for right now. I have to make do with what i have until i figure something out.

No, no one is going to gang up on you. You just need to realize that snakes are solitary creatures and will THRIVE, not just survive, when kept separately.

If you're prepared for stress-induced illnesses such as respiratory infections(which are contagious by the way), poor shedding, aggressive behavior, stress-induced fasting(not eating), and possibly cannibalization, then go ahead and keep them together.

A second set up would likely run you about $20 for a plastic tub, hides, water bowl, digital thermometer, bungee cord to hold the lid down, and an undertank heater(flexwatt runs $4-$5 for a wired 1ft x 11" piece).

You need to think about what is best for the snakes and not what you think looks nice or cool. They need to be separated, and that's that.

The tons of people who you've talked to, are likely very inexperienced pet shop keepers who don't know Ball Python husbandry from a hole in the wall. They keep them together because it's convenient for them, and they take no mind to how it affects the animals in the end. It's only about what is cheap and convenient..

Vet bills sure aren't cheap or convenient, neither is burying one or both of your snakes because of mistakes that could have been prevented.

sorry for getting all mad and defensive. Im just mad at the fact that i didnt know. If i would of, i would of only gotten 1 for now.

I would just feel rotten having to put 1 in a rubbermaid and keep it locked away like a slave. I know thats retarded,, and the snake would probably like it.

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Originally Posted by jseber1982

I would just feel rotten having to put 1 in a rubbermaid and keep it locked away like a slave. I know thats retarded

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Of course that's retarded....who keeps their slaves in rubbermaid tubs?

In Africa, they stay in burrows and dark termite mounds about 95% of their life. They thrive in plastic enclosures because they are slightly translucent, so the snake feels secure. Tubs are also so much easier to keep temperatures and humidity up to par. I have 31 snakes right now and every single one is kept in plastic tubs. They eat every week, they shed on a good schedule, they gain weight like nobody's business, they interact well with me and don't act stressed(no one balls up), and they bred last year, giving me 3 clutches. If snakes aren't happy with something, they will stop eating, shedding, growing, and breeding.

Just so their basic needs are provided: security, temperatures, humidity, food. That's all they need. Everything else added is to the benefit of the keeper.

You could easily move both snakes into two identical 15qt or 32qt tub set ups for $90 or so(the thermostat is $75, so that's the main cost). Moving them to the closet would give them privacy, especially away from the noisy kids :) , and they could do their own thing. You would get to see them thrive, not just survive.

If you need help with the tub set ups, just ask. They are very easy to maintain(unlike tanks), and the initial cost is minimal(again, unlike tanks).

I don't know about anyone else, but my slaves are hung from the ceiling. So much more convenient that way..

Did you get them from a pet store? Pet stores are some of the worst places to buy pets from. I used to work at one and 90% of the information coming out of pet store employees is completely wrong. Customers expect an answer and if they don't know it others find it easier to just lie or "BS" their way out of it. Instead of asking their manager or someone who would know.

True story. I had a mite problem once and I wanted to fix it. I had read a lot on here about Provent-a-mite, which works wonders(Thanks Bob Pound !). I decided to see if any places around here carried it, before I ordered it directly. I go into Petland and I look at their reptile section to see if they have any. I looked and decided to ask before I left, since I couldn't find it. An employee said " Oh know we don't carry mite killing products, because none exist". At this point I was in shock. She told me to empty my tank and put 2 inches of water in it and drown all the mites and that would fix my problem.

Moral of the story. Pet stores are the worst place for information considering some caresheets they give out are contradictory to what they actually do.

Housing BP's CAN work and has been argued in many many many many threads on here for both side of the issue, same on feeding. You can do what many recommend and you will have a much greater chance at success or you can do it your way and hope things work out. I hope they do. But I would advise separation, but if you want to do it the hard way, you may.

Yea i bought them from petco. And as you can see, he also recommended a retarded lamp.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jseber1982

Yea i bought them from petco. And as you can see, he also recommended a retarded lamp.

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See how expensive impulsive reptile purchases can be, not including hides and a water dish?

2 over priced WC pythons $120
aquarium w/screen lid $20
heat lamp $10
reflector $10
UTH $20
My guess for the total $180
Plus vet bills for 2 pythons ?????

Planned purchase
1 nice cbb python $30
Sterilite tub w/ lid $5
Flexwatt and cord $6
Ball Pythons in Captivity book $10
Total $51

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PythonWallace

See how expensive impulsive reptile purchases can be, not including hides and a water dish?

2 over priced WC pythons $120
aquarium w/screen lid $20
heat lamp $10
reflector $10
UTH $20
My guess for the total $180
Plus vet bills for 2 pythons ?????

Planned purchase
1 nice cbb python $30
Sterilite tub w/ lid $5
Flexwatt and cord $6
Ball Pythons in Captivity book $10
Total $51

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I would up the cost on the original one by about $50. No way a tank and screen is $20. The tank alone is $50 and the screen is around $20. When I bought my snake I too bought it from a store. At the time I didn't know you could mail snakes. The employee also insisted I buy a lamp and said how it was needed. I insisted he was very wrong and he kind of left me alone.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Brimstone111888

I would up the cost on the original one by about $50. No way a tank and screen is $20. The tank alone is $50 and the screen is around $20. When I bought my snake I too bought it from a store. At the time I didn't know you could mail snakes. The employee also insisted I buy a lamp and said how it was needed. I insisted he was very wrong and he kind of left me alone.

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I tried to stay on the low side so my point wouldn't be lost if I was a little over. I get 10gal aquariums for $10 and 10gal screen lids for $10 too. The Plastic locking reptile lids for 10gal tanks are $8. Mejer and WalMart. However, the baby BPs at my PetCo are usually around $70 each, so I'm sure it was a bit more than my estimate.

eh, the pythons were $55 a piece. I have been wanting one for over 4 months now, wasnt 100% impulsive. I just didnt know where to look for one. Didnt find you guys till this week.


I have the whole thing insulated on the top now.. Even after i mist it,, within 15 mins, the humidity is back down to like 45% or so. Anything i can do to fix this? Or is getting moisture holding substrate the only option?

Also she is shedding and its making her smell like fish....She didnt smell like this before she started shedding. infection? go figure,,, wait a go petco

i know what you mean i did research before i bought my bp (from petco) because i didn't know any better and then the petco rep told me that snakes like being together because they increase their body heat...so when me and my friend got out snakes we put them in the same tank for about 5 months maybe a little more and we didn't have any problems...they both defecated properly, grew really fast, ate well (sperated during feeding time of course), were never curled up in a ball they were in the hides by day and out and about by night...no agressiveness...but then of course i did more research and ended up seperating them, i guess i got lucky that nothing bad happened.

It may be so that they hate each other, i dunno. But watching them, they sometimes sleep side by side, they sometimes are entwined in this big ball, sometimes they sleep on opposite sides. I plan to separate them sometime. I know for a fact that i will when they get bigger