Heating question

I just set up my tank and I think I'm going to need a second heat element.

I have a 15 gal long, glass. 3 sides and 3/4 of the top are covered in foam board (also 3 layers of tin foil on top). Newspaper on the bottom.

I have a Reptitherm UTH for 10-20 gal aquariums with a ReptiTemp 500R. There's an Accurite w/probe in the tank right now and I have a temp gun to check surface temps.

Ok. The ReptiTemp is up to the highest setting. The glass surface temp is 101. The temps on the newspaper is only 75 to 87 (91 under the hide, but it cools when I move the hide). 40% humidity.

Should I try a different substrate? A ceramic heater?

Thanks!

How much newspaper are you using? As few as two sheets of paper is plenty...and that should allow the glass temps to be much closer to the safe ideal temps.


If the cool side of the tank stays around 75, then you'll need some sort of supplemental heat...either a second heating pad with it's own temp controls....or a red/blue bulb or CHE above the tank.

I've reduced the newspaper from 6 layers to 2. It seems the surface temp is lower then the glass because the probe lifts it up.... the 500R probe does go between the glass and substrate, right?

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Originally Posted by Kiramay

I've reduced the newspaper from 6 layers to 2. It seems the surface temp is lower then the glass because the probe lifts it up.... the 500R probe does go between the glass and substrate, right?

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The location of the probe is fine. But it shouldn't be lifting the paper up enough to lower the temp 20 degrees...something is off. Are you using the temp gun to measure the newspaper temp or the accurite? Where is the Accurite's probe placed?

Now I have the surface of basking side at 93, cool side at 77, ambient at 79, humidity at 45%. I think I'll stop at a petstore on the way home tonight and pick up a ceramic bulb to add a little more heat to the cool side.

I wish I had an outlet in the upstairs hallway-- its always warm up there!

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Originally Posted by Kiramay

Now I have the surface of basking side at 93, cool side at 77, ambient at 79, humidity at 45%. I think I'll stop at a petstore on the way home tonight and pick up a ceramic bulb to add a little more heat to the cool side.

I wish I had an outlet in the upstairs hallway-- its always warm up there!

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You might just give it some time to settle in...you are soooo close (within a couple of degrees) to where you want to be I would worry a CHE would add too much heat (you will need another thermostat for sure to keep it in check)

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Originally Posted by lord jackel

The location of the probe is fine. But it shouldn't be lifting the paper up enough to lower the temp 20 degrees...something is off. Are you using the temp gun to measure the newspaper temp or the accurite? Where is the Accurite's probe placed?

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I have the Accurite probe on the middle of the warm side, but I'm also checking all the temps with my Temp Gun.

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Originally Posted by lord jackel

You might just give it some time to settle in...you are soooo close (within a couple of degrees) to where you want to be I would worry a CHE would add too much heat (you will need another thermostat for sure to keep it in check)

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Ok, I'll let it cook for another day or two. I get my BP on Saturday so I want everything ready by then.

UPDATE....

I've added a walgreens heating pad on a 500R on low under the cool and middle of the tank, and so far every thing looks good. I have the cool side at 84, warm side at 91 (glass is 94), ambient at 80, and humidity at 44%. Is all that ok?

Christine

No, because human heating pads are not meant to be left on 24/7. They are only a temporary fix and can cause electrical fires if left on for too long.

Flexwatt is a very inexpensive, permanent fix and it runs about $4 for a one foot piece of wired 11".

You will likely want to replace the thermostat as well, they are not very reliable and can often stick in the ON position, frying your snake and again, causing a fire. Or they can stick in the OFF position, and your snake is too cold and contracts a respiratory infection.

I would recommend going to www.reptilebasics.com and getting a Johnson Controls thermostat or a Ranco thermostat as well as some flexwatt(maybe $80). It is well worth the investment to keep your snake safe and healthy.

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Originally Posted by SatanicIntention

No, because human heating pads are not meant to be left on 24/7. They are only a temporary fix and can cause electrical fires if left on for too long.

Flexwatt is a very inexpensive, permanent fix and it runs about $4 for a one foot piece of wired 11".

You will likely want to replace the thermostat as well, they are not very reliable and can often stick in the ON position, frying your snake and again, causing a fire. Or they can stick in the OFF position, and your snake is too cold and contracts a respiratory infection.

I would recommend going to www.reptilebasics.com and getting a Johnson Controls thermostat or a Ranco thermostat as well as some flexwatt(maybe $80). It is well worth the investment to keep your snake safe and healthy.

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Thanks, but that's just not an option. The UTH and thermostat are brand new and not returnable, so until they break that's what I'm stuck with. As for using the human heating pad, its not on 24/7 since the thermostat turns it on and off as needed. However, I unplugged it for now to see if I can do any other adjustments to fix the temps.

Any affordable suggestions??

Youll be fine with the thermostat... I have three and they all work fine... The only down side to them is theres usually a 5 degree swing in temps between when it shuts off and turns back on... this wont affect your snakes in any way since you have it hooked up to the UTH for the warm side 88-93 swing is fine... With the cold side if you cant afford to heat the entire room(which i couldnt and wouldnt with 1 snake) I did go with a CHE... Choose these over the light bulbs bc i found the light bubls kill the humidity and the CHE really has no effect on it... you do wanna work on getting your humidty up bc thats going to be the main problem with your glass tank... Theres many ways you can do this but to be honest its gonna cost you more to fiddle with other stuff to get ur humidity up and you can save $$ by picking up a rubbermaid tub for 10$ or less and thatll solve the problem itself.

How is the heat pad not returnable? Walgreen's takes everything back and will either give you store credit or just cash refund.

As for the thermostat.. It's not going to last very long and could possibly kill your snake. It's not a safe piece of equipment. The digital thermostats(Johnson Controls and Ranco) are only $75 and will easily last 20 years or more if taken proper care of. So, if your snake lives 35-40 years, divide that cost out over her lifetime and you'll see the cost is negligible. Even a dimmer from Home Depot would be safer than the ZooDead thermostat.

The flexwatt is only $4 or so for a 1ft x 11" wired piece. It won't develop hot spots that could burn your snake, and it likely won't fail after a few months of constant use.

The human heat pads are just not safe. Period. Ever watch Discovery Health and see where children and adults alike are burned by those heating pads in the middle of the night, or the house caught on fire because the temp spiked or the pad short circuited and melted? Not something I want happening to my beloved scale-kids or my house.

Have you tried using a plastic enclosure? Tubs are incredibly easy to set up and generally only take one undertank heater to get the temp gradiants where they need to be. If you have to use the tank, have you tried insulating the sides, top and bottom with styrofoam board?

One last question. What if the snake ends up with a respiratory infection from the improper heating, or a burn from the undertank heater, and the vet visit is $80+? Preventative care, with any animal, is the best affordable option.

As for the thermostat.. It's not going to last very long and could possibly kill your snake. It's not a safe piece of equipment. The digital thermostats(Johnson Controls and Ranco) are only $75 and will easily last 20 years or more if taken proper care of. So, if your snake lives 35-40 years, divide that cost out over her lifetime and you'll see the cost is negligible. Even a dimmer from Home Depot would be safer than the ZooDead thermostat.

What do you consider long?? 1yr... 2yrs... 10 yrs?... got 3 going strong for over a yr... I'm going to have this debate with you every time I see it posted on here... Until you show me some facts... not just your word... that these are "not a safe piece of equipment" and "will not last long" your word is nothing but an opinion... so state it as that... an opinion not a fact... Kill the snake?? oh man now theres snake eating thermostats on the market:)

Use what you got for now... down the road if you run into any issues you know your options... unless your snake is killed by the thermostat then youll have nothing to worry about!:)

Yep, and your words are nothing but opinions to me. Congratulations, you got the three thermostats that worked out of 50. You're saying I could go out and get a heat rock that works perfectly fine, but 50 other people could buy them and have fried snake/lizard/gecko the next morning.

I'll trust the people who have been keeping Ball Pythons for 25 plus years. They have tested what works and they have tested what doesn't work. The analog "thermostats" don't work, at least for very long. The digital thermostats work, very well, and for 10+ years. Heaven forbid someone spend another $30 on a piece of equipment that will keep their snake safe, without question. Those ZooDead things are $32.99 or more depending on where you shop. A Johnson Controls Thermostat, which can control up to 1500watts and is digital(with a temp swing of maybe 1 degree, I used one for my incubator this past season), is only $75. To me, $30 is not going out to eat a whole TWO times.

One last thing, you say the ZooDead tstat has a temp swing of a good 5-7 degrees. Ball Pythons do not respond well to temp swings, and will usually go off feed in response to the swings. My Johnson Controls, Herpstat 2, and Helix keeps my tubs within a 0.1 of a degree, and my snakes won't fast this winter(the ones who aren't breeding anyway).

Good luck with that.

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Originally Posted by SatanicIntention

How is the heat pad not returnable? Walgreen's takes everything back and will either give you store credit or just cash refund.

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I meant the Repti Therm UTH is not returnable since its already stuck on the tank. The human heater was ours, and I was trying to warm the cool side.

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As for the thermostat.. It's not going to last very long and could possibly kill your snake. It's not a safe piece of equipment. The digital thermostats(Johnson Controls and Ranco) are only $75 and will easily last 20 years or more if taken proper care of. So, if your snake lives 35-40 years, divide that cost out over her lifetime and you'll see the cost is negligible. Even a dimmer from Home Depot would be safer than the ZooDead thermostat.The flexwatt is only $4 or so for a 1ft x 11" wired piece. It won't develop hot spots that could burn your snake, and it likely won't fail after a few months of constant use.

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This seems to be a view that depends on the forum. I've talked to many who don't have a problem with this thermostat. Its not returnable and not up for debate right now. If and when it fails, I'll look into other options.

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Have you tried using a plastic enclosure? Tubs are incredibly easy to set up and generally only take one undertank heater to get the temp gradiants where they need to be. If you have to use the tank, have you tried insulating the sides, top and bottom with styrofoam board?

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If I wanted to do a tub, I would have done that from the beginning. I want something that looks nice, and the custom terrariums are currently out of my price range. As for insulating the sides, I apologize if this is rude, but did you read my other posts in this thread? I have 3 sides and 3/4 of the screen top sealed with foam board and foil.

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One last question. What if the snake ends up with a respiratory infection from the improper heating, or a burn from the undertank heater, and the vet visit is $80+? Preventative care, with any animal, is the best affordable option.

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I have an excellent exotic vet, and yes, his visits easily run $80+. I accept that cost as part of ownership. I have set up my tank following the set up and care sheets on this and 2 other respectable sites. I am only a few degrees from optimal, and came here seeking suggestions for tweaking. Please stick to that need. Thank you.

I have 8 snakes and never had one go off feed n never missed a meal... must be the thermostat? The overall tank isnt changing 5 degrees so no it prolly has zero effect on the snake.

The difference between you and me is I answer the question at hand regardless of what I think they should do to change their set up... The OP didnt ask if she had the best thermostat money could buy... I dont think she even asked anything that has to do with a thermostat... I use a herp Pro ...I spent the 330$ or whatever on it... i know its way better than the zoomeds but everytime someone says they use a zoomed im not gonna bash em and tell them theyre gonna kill their snake... what kind of help is that?

In the end bashing isnt helping... stick to the topic and if you cant do that then why bother posting?

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Originally Posted by JoshJP7

The difference between you and me is I answer the question at hand regardless of what I think they should do to change their set up... The OP didnt ask if she had the best thermostat money could buy... I dont think she even asked anything that has to do with a thermostat... I use a herp Pro ...I spent the 330$ or whatever on it... i know its way better than the zoomeds but everytime someone says they use a zoomed im not gonna bash em and tell them theyre gonna kill their snake... what kind of help is that?

In the end bashing isnt helping... stick to the topic and if you cant do that then why bother posting?

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Thank you for your help. I was feeling a little "bashed", and I really do appreciate those who have helped me with tweaking the temps. I've moved the probe from the center of the UTH to the middle, and placed the water dish 1/2 on the UTH. I'll check the temps and humidity in an hour or so.

I don't bash anyone.. Jeezus H, why does everyone think that?

I am a very open-minded, straight-forward, to-the-point person. I do not sugar-coat it, and if you don't like it, sorry! I tell it how it is so there isn't any confusion and people don't forget what the real problem is.

To the OP, I'm not going to apologize, because I feel that providing proper husbandry is the most important aspect of properly keeping a Ball Python, and any reptile. It prevents many problems that you may experience if the set up isn't correct. I'm trying to help prevent these future problems so you have a much more rewarding experience keeping a snake. I don't want a new keeper to have to experience horrible sheds, fasting, burns, respiratory infections, and other problems that result from improper husbandry.

As for the human heating pad, it "should" work for a few months until you can save up to get a good thermostat and some flexwatt for that one side of the tank. I would really recommend controlling the HHP somehow and a dimmer from Home Depot or Lowe's would work well. A brand I use and have good success with is the Lutron Credenza. It is a plug-n-play dimmer and doesn't require any wiring. They usually run about $11 after taxes and are located in the lighting section by the lamps. You can put the heat pad on the lowest or medium setting and dim it down using the dimmer.

Just because its not how YOU do things doesnt mean its not the "proper way"... I do just about everything thats "not proper" about keeping balls and my snakes are just as healthy as ralph davis's and NERD's.... I use large tanks, let my snakes roam freely, dont wait a week before feeding a new snake... Im sure I could keep going but you prolly dont care... Comes down to as long as the snakes healthy why does it matter how you do what you do??