hmm Black lucy X Blue lucy?

wtf does it make! fire mojaves or some crazy monkey snake? Nerd doesnt have a fire x mojave. wonder if they are on the same Locus or has it just not been crossed?

I'm not sure but I got my fingers crossed for Crazy Monkey Snake!

the snake pretty much is a prehensile tail so damn we are half way there
:handshake

I believe Ralph Davis recently hatched a fire lesser platy. It is a nice and odd looking lesser but it isn't a white.

Here is the URL to Ralphs birthing records page, the Fire X Lesser Platiumn is in clutch number 77. It IS an interesting looking animal, it 'almost' has a striped look to it as well as the interesting colors.

Mark

Oops, forgot the URL

http://www.ralphdavisreptiles.com/bi.../pythons_8.asp

fire/lesser x fire/lesser would be an interesting experiment, since the super form of both is a leucistic..

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Originally Posted by RandyRemington

I believe Ralph Davis recently hatched a fire lesser platy. It is a nice and odd looking lesser but it isn't a white.

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I think for the best way to try and produce one, you would need a mating pair of each. Breed the male lesser to the female fire, and the male fire to the female lesser. Then hold back both clutches and breed them to each other when they are old enough. Out of the say 3+ pairs, you might get lucky and end up with something funky. If not, you still end up with a lot of lesser and fire balls. :)

Robin

Has anyone had the chance to breed a BEL(either blue or black) to another morph? Im curious to what an all white snake would do to another morph... For some reason all i can think of is just turn it all white but thats prolly not right.

we are well on the way to a winged snake with all this fancy morph crossing! would be cool to have a BEL with one blue and one black eye lol like a german sheperd or something!

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Originally Posted by JoshJP7

Has anyone had the chance to breed a BEL(either blue or black) to another morph? Im curious to what an all white snake would do to another morph... For some reason all i can think of is just turn it all white but thats prolly not right.

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A BEL crossed to another morph would only be het for BEL (mojo or lesser) + whatever genetics came from the other parent. The other parent would also have to be a mojo or lesser to produce any Lucies, and I would guess that it would be an all white snake no matter what the other genes were.

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Originally Posted by PythonWallace

A BEL crossed to another morph would only be het for BEL (mojo or lesser) + whatever genetics came from the other parent. The other parent would also have to be a mojo or lesser to produce any Lucies, and I would guess that it would be an all white snake no matter what the other genes were.

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Yep... unless of course hell freezes over and they play the Stanly Cup there :).

Since Leucism is a reduction in all forms of scale pigment (Albinism is the reduction of melanin only), the only color it can be is some form of white, depending on the severity of the reduction in pigmentation.

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Originally Posted by jhall1468

Since Leucism is a reduction in all forms of scale pigment (Albinism is the reduction of melanin only), the only color it can be is some form of white, depending on the severity of the reduction in pigmentation.

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Yes, but if we mix enough, maybe they'll become see-through! :D

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Originally Posted by ctrlfreq

Yes, but if we mix enough, maybe they'll become see-through! :D

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Just wait until my Invisible Ball Python project is finished. I bet I could sell them on fauna.

:carrot:

let me know when we have some pics of the crazy monkey snake!!! ;)

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Originally Posted by ctrlfreq

Yes, but if we mix enough, maybe they'll become see-through! :D

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That would be f'ed up. Like those see-through fish that are sometimes painted with fluorescent paint. I guess it would be cool for biology students to be able to examine the internal systems of pythons?

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Originally Posted by jhall1468

Yep... unless of course hell freezes over and they play the Stanly Cup there :).

Since Leucism is a reduction in all forms of scale pigment (Albinism is the reduction of melanin only), the only color it can be is some form of white, depending on the severity of the reduction in pigmentation.

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Actually, pigment is still produced, but the cells are incapable of "holding" it...

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Originally Posted by CntrlF8

Actually, pigment is still produced, but the cells are incapable of "holding" it...

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Actually, that's not quite true. The cells we are talking about are chromatophores. A purely leucistic animal doesn't have any chromatophoric cells, and as such, no color is displayed. An amelanistic (Albino) DOES have the cells but can't produce the melanin, and as such, only the other pigments show through (I don't know how many BPs have, but I'd estimate 2 ;)).

We see some Lucy's have dorsal fins that don't match the color of the rest of the scales. This is a form of partical leucisim, meaning some chromatophoric cells are present, but only in small numbers and located in specific areas across the back of the animal. This also explains why they maintain eye color... there are some leucistic animals that do have red eyes.

So, technically, yes a BP can produce pigments, but the cells used to transport the pigment don't exist. My explanation was incredibly over-simplistic, but in general it fits ;).

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Originally Posted by jhall1468

Actually, that's not quite true. The cells we are talking about are chromatophores. A purely leucistic animal doesn't have any chromatophoric cells, and as such, no color is displayed. An amelanistic (Albino) DOES have the cells but can't produce the melanin, and as such, only the other pigments show through (I don't know how many BPs have, but I'd estimate 2 ;)).

We see some Lucy's have dorsal fins that don't match the color of the rest of the scales. This is a form of partical leucisim, meaning some chromatophoric cells are present, but only in small numbers and located in specific areas across the back of the animal. This also explains why they maintain eye color... there are some leucistic animals that do have red eyes.

So, technically, yes a BP can produce pigments, but the cells used to transport the pigment don't exist. My explanation was incredibly over-simplistic, but in general it fits ;).

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That's basically what I was saying, but my explanation was much more simple than even yours. However, a 'red eyed leucistic" would technically be an albino leucistic, as the eye color is not transported by chromatophoric cells. Unless there is a genetically red-eyed ball other than an albino...

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Originally Posted by CntrlF8

That's basically what I was saying, but my explanation was much more simple than even yours. However, a 'red eyed leucistic" would technically be an albino leucistic, as the eye color is not transported by chromatophoric cells. Unless there is a genetically red-eyed ball other than an albino...

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It certainly doesn't appear that eye color is transported by chromatophoric cells in balls, but there are (rare) cases where it seems that non-albino animals have red eyes. But it would be interesting to see an Amel Lucy Ball :D.

2cent slightly offtopic post pertaining to albinism and red eyes :

not all albino phenotypes have red eyes as albinism doent actually produce red eyes. some albinos do have blue eyes ( ie; albino humans ). albinism dosent necessarily turn the iris red, its mearly the blood vessils showing through since the iris is part of the vascular system in the eye. human albinos have blue eyes since thats what the reduced pigment shows up as. ie, all pigment = brown or almost black eyes, no pigment is pretty much the color of the muscles ( i think ). ive been learning about this for god knows how long..figure i'd remember it by now.

now back to your regularly scheduled genetic conversation.

(yeah ball pythons!)
i think my girl looks pretty with blue eyes, but i bet she wants to shed more than look pretty.

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Originally Posted by ctrlfreq

Yes, but if we mix enough, maybe they'll become see-through! :D

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funny ;)

I can't wait to see the See-thru!!

:D

The true "ghost" ball python ;)

I think the most interesting one would be a Black Eye Lucy with a Super Cinny...hopefully a balck snake with a red slit...or a snake that looks like a cow

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Originally Posted by mricyfire

I think the most interesting one would be a Black Eye Lucy with a Super Cinny...hopefully a balck snake with a red slit...or a snake that looks like a cow

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What red slit are you referring to? One created by a flash on a camera or one created by Photoshop?

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Originally Posted by jglass38

one created by Photoshop?

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touche :bow:

black eyed leucistic x blue eyed leucistic= fire/platinum complex-cross

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Originally Posted by mricyfire

I think the most interesting one would be a Black Eye Lucy with a Super Cinny...hopefully a balck snake with a red slit...or a snake that looks like a cow

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It would be a white snake. Again, without the cells to transport pigment, a homozygous Lucy + anything = white snake. A Super Cinny Piebald would be a "cow looking" snake.

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Originally Posted by jglass38

What red slit are you referring to? One created by a flash on a camera or one created by Photoshop?

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This one...photo from constrictors.com

http://constrictors.com/images/BallP...cistic1365.jpg

I have seen a couple other Black Eyed Lucys with this trait (one in person)...and the pastel superstripe by Amir has it as well.

You are referring to the pupil... That is the technical term :)

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Originally Posted by LadyOhh

You are referring to the pupil... That is the technical term :)

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Oh sure, go all scientific on us Heather :rofl:

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Originally Posted by Moriar

wtf does it make! fire mojaves or some crazy monkey snake? Nerd doesnt have a fire x mojave. wonder if they are on the same Locus or has it just not been crossed?

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it will make an invisible snake....



but really depends on the blue eyed lucy


its a super lesse X super fire youd get all lesserfires

I would like to see what would happen if a super lesser super fire was produced. I wonder what the eye color would be? Would you even be able to tell it was a double super?

sounds like a project to me

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Originally Posted by TooManyToys

Oh sure, go all scientific on us Heather :rofl:

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Yeah she did... about a year ago when that post was made :D.

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Originally Posted by mricyfire

I think the most interesting one would be a Black Eye Lucy with a Super Cinny...hopefully a balck snake with a red slit...or a snake that looks like a cow

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i want the cow snake... :banana:
i love cows.