A discussion on Dobermans (Can we share, Ginevive? hehe)

This is ALL your fault, Ginevive! I haven't had puppy-fever this bad in decades!! Not that I'm at all likely to get one...but I figured it couldn't hurt to enjoy talking about them, right??? ;)

And since you've expressed some serious interest in Dobermans, and that is what has caught my attention as well, I thought I'd start a specific thread for more details.

I started browsing some breeder's websites, and so far (still early into this) I haven't found any mention of hip issues with these dogs. None that I have looked at yet have claimed that the parents are free of issues or whatever...although they'll claim histories of good temperments and such.

So, I guess my first questions are: How much of an issue are hips in Dobies? And if not hips, what other health issues are relevant to the breed? What kinds of questions should a smart shopper be asking the breeders?

And lastly (without starting any fresh debate, as that thread is already plenty) are there any merits to cropping and docking? I rather like the floppy eared look, but if cropped ears are healthier for them, that's ok, too. Not sure on the tails, as I don't think I've ever seen a dobie with an un-docked tail.

I recommend finding a Doberman or breed-specific rescue before a breeder anyday. You can save a dog's life while helping the people who genuinely care about dogs. Support a rescue when you can(if it's a good rescue group).

A good breeder MAY have only one litter a yea(not 10 or some huge number), and in my eyes, a good breeder also helps rescue groups.

All large breed dogs will get degenerative joint disease because they are so heavy. I've seen alot of Dobermans, Rottweilers, Mastiffs(all types), Great Danes, etc with extraordinarily bad hips, hocks, knees that pop out of place(luxating patella). These dogs need to be grown slowly and not exposed to alot of exercise while they are still growing. It can be very detrimental to their skeletal structure.

If you want a larger, laid back dog that is people and dog friendly, try a Greyhound. There are alot of greyhound rescues out there with wonderful dogs who need homes. Most aren't even 2 years old. They have short coats as well, so not too much hair everywhere.

For myself, if I can find a dog(not that I want to right now) that clicks with me at a rescue, I will go with that anyday over supporting a breeder. There are enough animals in the world being put to sleep everyday.

If you can find a good breeder that does constant hip checks on their adults, hip checks on their puppies and guarantees them, as well as only breeding once or twice a year and has a wait list a mile long, there ya go.

As far as tail docking and ear cropping on Dobies, it's not necessary. I've seen alot of Dobermans that weren't cropped/docked and they were adorable. A nice show quality, properly docked/cropped Doberman Pinscher does look nice though, but no, there aren't any medical benefits of either procedure. I do recommend the dewclaw removal, as they are a pain and a half to deal with.

I guess my only hesitation with rescues is not having specific information on the dog's heritage regarding health and temperment. If I went looking, I certainly wouldn't be looking for the prestige of having papers or whatever....just want a healthy, well-adapted dog.


Greyhounds ARE an excellent idea as well. Definitely something worth considering if the puppy-fever can not be cured by time and much visualization of chewed up belongings and poo on the carpet. :giggle:

Thanks for the info, Becky!

Rescues do tend to do extensive temperment tests before the animals are ever put up for adoption and are very forthcoming about the animal's short comings and strengths (IE, should be an only dog - or - loves other dogs, etc). Many are kept in foster homes before being placed and their foster family can tell you even more.


Most breed specific rescues are also going to be doing health checks as well and be pretty up front about those as well. At least that has been my experience with Golden rescues.

Here's an example Judy - and I think you really, really need Ivory! :D


http://www.dobermanrescue.org/framew...xdobermans.htm



Edit - since I don't know Texas and the regional areas, I just typed Texas Doberman Rescue - there are a lot of rescue groups.

Excellent link, Robin! Thanks! I bookmarked it.


It's really highly unlikely I'd actually get a dog. I'm just suffering from "puppy fever" right now, and that's definitely NOT the time to get a dog. But if, after a long period of contemplation, prayer, and doggie education, it mellows into a genuine desire to fully commit to one....heh...and THEN begins the challenge of convincing hubby. So yeah.....not gonna run down and rescue a pup anytime soon. But it sure is fun thinking about it.

When I do get a dog, I want a dobie. I researched a few rescues that are in NY and PA and would not mind traveling to rescue one.. but I might have to wait a little while because with Mark's career change, we are still feeling things out in the financial department.

There are a lot of great Dobies, but I also meet a lot that are skittish, shy, neurotic, etc. If possible, I'd recommend getting a rescued adult...you can meet them, they are generally well-evaluated, and you can get a very good feel for them. Plus, you are saving lives. Around here, a lot of the rescues are networked...we funnel needy purebred animals into the breed-specific groups, freeing up room in the all-breed rescues for other animals. Please rescue, it's so important!

However...if you go with a breeder...Dobies have quite a few genetic problems.
This Wiki article outlines them well:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doberman

Hips and hearts are biggies on these guys. Also, if you see a breeder selling "rare" blue or white Dobies...I'd run like the wind.

Good breeders are proud of their animals, proud of the health testing they do, and they are eager and excited to discuss their breeding programs. Bad breeders say things like "We don't need to test because we have been doing this for years and never had a problem.".

I had the pleasure of meeting a wonderful breeder (mastiffs, not Dobies) last weekend, and it was amazing...he was able to quote hip scores off the top of his head for each of the dozen breeding dogs he had, he described in detail each potential problem the breed faced, and how his breeding program was adressing that...how he screenseach dog for the breeding program, where he gets his potential breeders, how he starts each puppy...it was so refreshing. And the dogs were fabulous...clean, in gorgeous condition, terrific temperaments, and they clearly loved him as much as he loved them. He has waiting lists for litters...you put a deposit down on a puppy before it's even born. If I was going to buy a dog, that would be a guy I'd be totally comfortable dropping $1k on (and my friend has already put a deposit on the next pairing).

Dobermans are a great breed overall. The drawbacks in my opinion are that a doberman is very likely to bite anyone that the dog views as an unauthorized person coming on the premises and this cant be ignored. This breed is also highly prone to cancer.I have formed my opinions from owning one. They are highly trainable, will without a doubt defend their owners and once a doberman knows a person they are very trustworthy.

On a side note: Greyhound are sweethearts!
If you go to a rescue, you'll defiantly fall in love with them. :D

If you do go doberman, defiantly invest some time in training. It's hard to go against what a dog was bred to do (guarding, for dobbies), and they'll be very protective of anything they consider 'theirs' (people, places, ect). This isn't to say their bad dogs, on the contrary they can be awesome, just make sure it's a reputable breeder that breeds for temperament as well as looks, or if it's a rescue that they have some information on the dog and why it was turned in.

To me, a Doberman is just not a Doberman if it's not cropped. I'm sorry -- you can turn me into a villain if you want to, but that's just the way I see it. I have a close friend with a Dobe-- she is an amazing, beautiful, sweet resuce. Good luck!

I have had Doberman's my whole life and I have to agree with most everything that has been said so far. They are very easily trained (both house trained and sit, stay etc), and they are very protective of their people. However, they LOVE their people and want to be around them all the time. All of my Dobies have been house dogs. But, like I said they are protective, but I wouldn't say they are aggressive. For instance, if you bring a friend over to your house and introduce him to your dog, then the dog isn't going to attack him. I got mine from a breeder but I completely support a rescue group. Hope this helped a little!

Cant believe i missed this thread. Ive been trying to rescue a dobie for about a week, a few possibilities but no luck yet. Im going to keep looking though. If anyone knows a place or someone in the jacksonville, fl area let me know.

I'm in love with my Dobie! We don't have hip problems yet, but he's still young, just made a year. He's definitely a house dog, although we don't have much room for company when he's on the couch. Very sweet dog, and it just astounds me at how smart he is. Very obedient, has learned training with very minimal effort. After just a couple of accidents in the house (and they are BIGGGGG accidents), he learned that he had to go outside to do his business. Wish I had a decent pic of him to post. His tail is docked, but his ears are not cropped.

Just thought I'd throw in my experience. I have a doberman. She's about 8 years old, and she's a working dog. Her name is Coco and she goes to the nursing homes with my step-mom who is an activities coordinator for nursing homes. She is trained to waltz right up to someone and put her head down to get petted. She does her job very well and the residents love her. They always store up dog cookies for the days she comes in. -lol-

I guess it's because of her training, but she is not aggressive in any way. When someone new walks into the house she barks twice to let us know, and then walks up and puts her head down. ...Not the best guard dog. -lol- :rofl: But we taught her to do that so it's not an issue.

She doesn't have any hip problems yet and she LOVES to run. She just circles the house over and over, running at full speed. She probably thinks she's a greyhound. -lol- Her ears are not cropped but her tail is. We got her like that from the breeder- it'd already been done.

Not sure what else I can add here, but she is a very lovable dog who needs lots of space and ALWAYS wants to be by us. Sometimes she leans her head on us as we're walking. This has caused lots of accidents... :rofl:

I've really loved having her, but I don't think I'd ever get another one. I've got my heart set on a pit bull. :please:

Wow...here's an old thread!

Since I posted this thread back in October...I've been quietly working on learning as much as humanly possible about dobies without actually owning one yet. Recently, I got my hubby's blessing to bring home the "puppy of my choice"!!! :banana:

After extensive research on dobies and breeders and breeding ethics, I've found one that I'm hoping to be able to do business with in the not-too-distant future.

Lord willing, I'll be showing off tons of puppy pictures in another 9-10 weeks! :D

most greyhounds were once racers. So they probably are alread trained. Dobers are awesome dogs! I love the red coated ones. My heart is andallways will be with he border collie. But the Doberman is high on the list. Good luck! Puppy fever is so fun! You could join a forum too.

Dobermans ARE great dogs, but it depends on a variety of factors as it does with any dog of any breed age or sex. The main issues with dobermans are from breeders that are only breeding for show and have messed with the conformation of the dogs, very similar to the way breeders have taken the German Shepherd. I won't get into much detail with that. Long story short it comes down to what the dogs are being bred for. Too many people do not understand dog behavior and what they think is a "good dog" may be an aggressive or weak individual whose offspring may be alike in that trait and wind up in the hands of more people that don't know what they are doing.

I've had a Dobie and Dobie mixes. I currently have a half Doberman that I can guarantee most people would have either given up on or wound up with a horrible fear biting monster. It isn't the Doberman in him, its the fact that he was raised wild with zero human contact until the day I caught him. Today, he is a fabulous dog with a great temperament and a lot of potenial.

I have worked with "bad examples" of many "good breeds." Labrador Retrievers are a great example of dogs that are generally good but can and will develope behavioral problems if not handled, cared for, fed, and/or trained properly.

Yes breeds have traits known for those breeds but it is not guaranteed in any dog that just because it is a member of a certain breed that it will act or be a certain way. There are a lot of factors that go into the personality/temperament developement of each and every dog we own. There are born traits that the dog has no matter what. There are born traits that the dog developes further or has problems with from positive or negative experiences. There are trained/learned behaviors that could be linked to many different things.

The only way that breed has any affect on temperament and behavior is that certain breeds have been created for certain traits to be stronger, or weaker depending on the need for the dog. But breed is no guarantee for temperament or behavior, the only way to guarantee anything with a puppy is to do your research and with an understanding of canine behavior, enhance the traits you like and redirect or discourage the traits you do not like. Nutrition/Diet can also play a role in a dogs behavior and most definitely plays a huge role in the health of the dog.

With most breeds these days you have to be careful who you get a puppy from. Price is no golden ticket for a great dog, neither is coming from "champion" (in conformation) parents, or even parents that were calm and easy going can and do produce high energy pups.

Rescues and shelters are great places but there are many factors involved in getting a dog from a shelter. Most dogs are quite different in a kennel atmosphere than they will be in your home. You don't know the history of the animal in terms of health, behavior, or training. All you know is that for reasons posibly unknown to you, someone else did not want this dog. Doesn't mean they are bad dogs, I rescue dogs all the time, retrain, and find them great homes. Whether or not you rescue should depend on your goals for the dog. Never pick a shy/fearful dog because you feel bad for it and think love solves every problem, especially not if you are wanting a 'guard dog.'

Ah. I ranted :D

to Edit: Sorry, didn't see the other posts I was busy typing away! I have a recomendation for an excellent forum on dog training if you would like :) I am a member there.

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Originally Posted by stangs13

most greyhounds were once racers. So they probably are alread trained. Dobers are awesome dogs! I love the red coated ones. My heart is andallways will be with he border collie. But the Doberman is high on the list. Good luck! Puppy fever is so fun! You could join a forum too.

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Love me some border collie!!!

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...38_1_thumb.jpg

I do belong to a great Doberman forum...which has been a great jumping-off place for much of my research. I'd be glad of any links to sites that folks think would be helpful.

Eventually, I'd like to try training for obedience competition and/or agility...but that's a ways down the road, obviously. Flyball looks like a ton of fun, too! LOL

http://www.leerburg.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/cfrm

There ya go. This forum is strictly dog training, it is not breed specific and they don't directly advertise any breeders.

:D Got that one bookmarked already. Definitely a goldmine of great info.

I would have to agree :D I haven't been there for a few days. been taking a break from the dog forum to research here and other sites on BPs. If you've ever posted there, I might have helped you :cool:

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Originally Posted by BulldogBalls

I would have to agree :D I haven't been there for a few days. been taking a break from the dog forum to research here and other sites on BPs. If you've ever posted there, I might have helped you :cool:

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Nope...haven't gotten around to joining that one...just browsing a bit, and mostly exploring the rest of leersburg's site and products.

I chime in at the Doberman forum every once in a while...but other than that, I have no time for forum participation outside of BP.net....and bloody little of even that, lately. :rolleyes: :P

I really want a good, healthy Dobey once we buy our house a few years down the road. Funny, I don't mind having horses and other animals here where we rent on the farm. But a dog is a lot more work than a horse IMO. Sure, you have your cleanup factor.. but horses can be left alone for a weekend, say, with a large haybele and a neighbor merely coming by to water and see what's going on. But dogs need to be taken out, fed more often, etc. I know the full responsibility of dogs.. I just have to wait for awhile.

Yup...a dog...especially a puppy, in our case....is a huge commitment that we've not made lightly or easily. Especially as I refuse to simply have an animal that lives in the back yard. This dog will be a part of our family and need a constant dedication to proper exercise, socialization and training. The scope of it is actually kind of scary, but I'm tremendously excited about the challenges and rewards ahead!

Here ia a dog I rescued 4 years ago. I got him on www.petfinder.com they have great descriptions of temperment, compatability(with other animals) and medical history. Harry has become my bestest friend and the best dog I have ever had. he is a pit mix and I also learned pits are probably the most misunderstood animal. he behaves like a kitten and loves kids! i wasn't looking for a pit but we fell in love:hug:
http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w...licksjacob.jpg

Hahaha!! Looks like the greatest danger there is the risk of head-bonks. :rofl:

I thought long and hard about rescues...and still browse every rescue organization within a 10-hour drive of my home. There's always a chance that the perfect dog would show up. However, given what I know about our family, my kids, how much we travel and visit others, and frequent moves, what I'm looking for in a dog, etc....I believe it's much wiser for us to start with a "blank slate" of a puppy. Especially with a powerful breed like the Doberman and their high risks of significant health problems if poorly bred.

Keep in mind while shopping to check for health certifications. If they have checked the eyes, hips or thyroid, they will have actual cert. to show for it. Many register with OFA (orthepidic foundation for animals) . Punch up OFA and go to their site. This site is for the public to view. Many times you can put in the kennel name and review the results on individual dogs. This is helpful but not fool proof. Breeders can opt to not have bad results published. But if a breeder has multiple dogs listed it gives you an idea that they are taking more care than most with their breeding program. Best if you see results on the actual parents.

Good luck finding the right one. Taking extra effort to find the right one has its rewards.

I didn't read through the topic (SORRY!) but I've had 4 Dobies in my life. The first one died at 10 (I was 2 lol) of apparent old age. He had cancer at some point, but it was in his toe (or something like that.) Anyhow, cancer isn't really a genetic risk to them only. The second one was the biggest problem, when she was 5 she developed "Wobbler's Disease." It caused severe ataxia in the back end. I don't know if it's genetic, but I do know that it is more common in Dobies than other breeds. She was relatively pain free despite the problem and lived for 4.5 years before we decided that she was in pain and she was unable to tell when she was defecating. Towards the end I had begun doing little agility with her and jumping over things really seemed to help her muscles, but it's still a disease, it still gets worse. We got two pups a little over 9 years ago, same time, NEVER RECOMMEND THAT! Anyhow, one of the two developed an inoperable tumor in his spine 3 years ago. We didn't know what it was and he went through a prednizone treatment which caused him to be completely fine for an entire year. One year to the day later, he came up with the same symptoms and when he didn't get better despite treatments for a lot of different things, a blood test showed abnormal proteins so they X-rayed him and found the tumor. As far as I know, they never biopsied the tumor, so I don't know if it was cancer or not, but he was euthanized that day. The other pup we still have at over 9 years old and he's doing well.

Dobies are good dogs. They have health issues as does every pure breed. However, we love them, I just don't think I'll get another one in the near future. They're only expected to live 10 years, so we've only have one go early and that was a choice, we may have been able to keep him comfortable, but my family has a thing with making animals suffer longer than they should, so I was happy they let him go to a better place.

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Originally Posted by JLC

I do belong to a great Doberman forum...which has been a great jumping-off place for much of my research.

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I joined one last night. I will be getting a dobe hopefully real soon. Super excited.:banana: