Toffee Ball

These are some eye catchers.

Anyone have any?

The Urban Python has one.

http://www.theurbanpython.com/mainpa...ffee_ball.html

isn't that the ONLY one?

Boy, this forum sure is full of questions as of late. :eek:



















Yes, the Urban Python has the only one as it has not been proven yet.

I hope it proves out - that is one beautiful snake!

That's where I seen it.

I think Urban has the best websites I've seen.

Their logos are fab.

How long have they been trying to prove that beauty out? Anyone know?

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Originally Posted by MPenn

Yes, the Urban Python has the only one as it has not been proven yet.

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Incorrect...Renaissance Reptiles has one and they call it that Paragon. I think BHB just got one as well...

Urban Python has breed and appears to be recessive. The breeding gave them normals (which are most likely het)

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Originally Posted by mricyfire

Urban Python has breed and appears to be recessive. The breeding gave them normals (which are most likely het)

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Wont know until we see some visuals....

That is one stunning snake. Wow.. it literally looks edible.. like it'd taste like caramel and chocolate. Drool.. I had better hit the freezer for ice cream!

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Originally Posted by juddb

Wont know until we see some visuals....

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And given the offspring hatched this year, and the WC is male, it'll be a while.

I sure hope it's recessive :D.

I hope they're recessive too!! I bet they'll be keeping all the little girls from the clutch...fingers crossed for three years or so from now!

I just want to see a toffeebee

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Originally Posted by mricyfire

I just want to see a toffeebee

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How about a Toffee Clown :eek: ??

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Originally Posted by mricyfire

Incorrect...Renaissance Reptiles has one and they call it that Paragon. I think BHB just got one as well...

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No, ....... you are incorrect. Renaissance has a Paragon ball. You will not know if the paragon and toffee are the same until you breed them together and get visuals.

They (urban python) said that he was successfully bred this year (2007). doesn't that mean that the first babies will hatch 2008 spring/summer?

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Originally Posted by MPenn

No, ....... you are incorrect. Renaissance has a Paragon ball. You will not know if the paragon and toffee are the same until you breed them together and get visuals.

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I think this is similar to the Butter/Lesser issue. You're going to have about half of everyone assume they are the same (ie, exactly the same or alleles) and the other half who will say they are different until it's proven.

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Originally Posted by Roswell

They (urban python) said that he was successfully bred this year (2007). doesn't that mean that the first babies will hatch 2008 spring/summer?

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They may have already laid. If there aren't any visual morphs, we'll be waiting until 2010-2011 until the hold back girls can be bred back to the male.

i'd like to see the gene proven because then maybe they'll have some for sale and i can get one some day! :pinkele:

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Originally Posted by jhall1468

And given the offspring hatched this year, and the WC is male, it'll be a while.

I sure hope it's recessive :D.

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agreed!!!

wow my jaw just dropped to the floor...dang that guy is sweet!

It will be much easier to prove that toffee and paragon are the same, since it is recessive.

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Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

It will be much easier to prove that toffee and paragon are the same, since it is recessive.

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What is recessive, nobody has proved anything yet? Correct me if im wrong.

If the offspring all appeared normal, assuming the trait breeds true at all, then it must be a recessive.

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Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

If the offspring all appeared normal, assuming the trait breeds true at all, then it must be a recessive.

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Not neccesarily... when the BP Gods are in a bad mood sometimes a Codom trait will throw all norms ;).

And just because they are recessive doesn't make it easier to prove anything. If they are incompatible alleles, then it will take some time to prove out (like the Axanthics did). If they are compatible, it still isn't "easy" to determine if they are simply compatible alleles, or if they are the same line (identical alleles).

Not that it matters to me either way, regardless of what it is, the offspring are going to be WAY outside my world of affordability for a long time ;).

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Originally Posted by MPenn

No, ....... you are incorrect. Renaissance has a Paragon ball. You will not know if the paragon and toffee are the same until you breed them together and get visuals.

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lol

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Originally Posted by jhall1468

Not neccesarily... when the BP Gods are in a bad mood sometimes a Codom trait will throw all norms ;).

And just because they are recessive doesn't make it easier to prove anything. If they are incompatible alleles, then it will take some time to prove out (like the Axanthics did). If they are compatible, it still isn't "easy" to determine if they are simply compatible alleles, or if they are the same line (identical alleles).

Not that it matters to me either way, regardless of what it is, the offspring are going to be WAY outside my world of affordability for a long time ;).

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Not sure about renaissance...but i called urban pythons a while back and if i remember correctly they bred their male to a couple females and all offspring came out normal looking.

Well JP, get on the phone with renaissance and find this out for us! come on Sherlock Holmes!

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Originally Posted by mricyfire

Not sure about renaissance...but i called urban pythons a while back and if i remember correctly they bred their male to a couple females and all offspring came out normal looking.

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Which means it's PROBABLY either recessive or non-genetic.

Lets all hope to god it's resessive!

There is another Paragon ball in the collection of Pete Kahl and Neil McCrum they co own the snake. You can see pictures of it over on Willbanks site. It is cool looking and Neil named it the Candyball and paid a lot of money for it. I believe they told me that they produced three clutches from him in 06 and all the offspring came out normal looking. The thinking is that they are simple recessive. Hopefully they are as they are one awesome looking snake.


Brock :sabduel:

Wasn't able to find that brock, I'd love a picture!

I don't care if it's recessive or co-dom as long as it's genetic! The toffee is awesome looking and it would be a real shame if it couldn't be reproduced.

The CANDY BALL
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h1...mantongue1.jpg
http://i21.tinypic.com/2lwan2a.jpg

Toffee ball or Candy ball? The same or different? Either way a SWEET lookin' ball!!

Stunning!

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Originally Posted by KYSHA

The CANDY BALL
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h1...mantongue1.jpg
http://i21.tinypic.com/2lwan2a.jpg

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Toffee = Paragon = Candy

I guess the name sticks with whoever proves the genetics first.

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Originally Posted by mricyfire

Toffee = Paragon = Candy

I guess the name sticks with whoever proves the genetics first.

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And proves that they are compatible. ;)

Those are the pictures that I was talking about. That be the Candyball.


Brock

sometimes I just want to ask God how many ball python morphs there are...it seems like there is always a new natural occurring morph.

how much would someone pay for a snake out of africa like that? and how do they get the hook up to even get offered the snake?

And how much fun would that trip to Africa be? <lol>

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Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

And how much fun would that trip to Africa be? <lol>

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Unless you like getting chased, shot at, robbed, and then detained by the authorities ... not very. :sweeet:

-adam

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Originally Posted by andwhy6

how much would someone pay for a snake out of africa like that?

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If you're a player and you're being offered a one or two or three of a kind animal that you're interested in, you'd pay whatever it takes to get it.

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Originally Posted by andwhy6

and how do they get the hook up to even get offered the snake?

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It's about who you know and how big your bank roll is. ;)

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Unless you like getting chased, shot at, robbed, and then detained by the authorities ... not very. :sweeet:

-adam

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Sounds fun I might can think of a few people I could buy a ticket to Africa for Christmas :8:

I second what Adam says. Having purchased snakes out of Africa this year it is a scary thing and it really depends on your bankroll. I was just offered a snake for 60K and passed on the animal. It really depends on how big of a player you are.


Brock