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Another Feed Question

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  • 10-03-2007, 09:37 AM
    Ringo
    Another Feed Question
    Im just curious as to what is the largest feeder I will ever have to give my ball python. I just started him on adult mice. His length is 22" not exactly sure what his girth is though. The adult mice give him a nice little lump in his tummy so I bought a year supply of adult mice. I would really like to only have to give one feed item per feeding so what should I get next after this years supply. I got the frozen mice from rodentpro.com.
  • 10-03-2007, 09:42 AM
    SatanicIntention
    Re: Another Feed Question
    You could stay with mice his whole life or you can slowly move up to weaned rats. It's ultimately your snake's choice though :)
  • 10-03-2007, 10:18 AM
    WingedWolfPsion
    Re: Another Feed Question
    Opinions on this vary, and the size of the snake matters. Some people stick with small rats--most offer medium rats to large ball pythons, and a few give large rats to the largest snakes.
  • 10-03-2007, 10:26 AM
    SatanicIntention
    Re: Another Feed Question
    Hun... Have you done a poll on the entire Ball Python community that says MOST keepers feed medium and large rats to their adults?

    The majority feed weaned/small rats to their adults, sometimes even TWO weaned/smalls. I only feed mice and once of my girls(even with only 3-4 mice a week, skipping a week here and there too) is overweight and needs bumped down to 1-2 a week.

    The fact is, is that the snake doesn't NEED or require that amount of food whatsoever. Their metabolism is very slow and overfeeding will just lead to fasting for months. Feeding smaller meals once per week keeps the snake feeding on a regular basis, which in turn means growing at a consistent rate.

    There are many people who just feed mice, many who just feed rats, many who feed rats, mice, african soft furs, gerbils and the ocassional small child. Just because you and a few other people feed large rats to your Ball Pythons, doesn't mean the majority do. No one knows what these snakes' nutritional requirements are, so you have no basis in saying that feeding larger prey items is best for them. People with 35+ years of experience with these animals, who also only feed weaned/small rats to their biggest adults, hopefully know what they are doing by now.
  • 10-03-2007, 10:39 AM
    WingedWolfPsion
    Re: Another Feed Question
    I know you do, you've made that clear. However, it's important to note I did not say most fed large rats. I said that most fed medium rats. There seem to be a contingent advocating feeding only small rats or mice to ball pythons, but I don't see any evidence that it is a majority. (Might be a majority here, but not in the general herp community).
    I don't personally think it really matters all that much, so long as the animals are healthy, have a healthy weight, and eat regularly (whatever the schedule).
    Those are the things that matter. :)
    Would you disagree with my statement that it does not matter so long as the animals are healthy?
  • 10-03-2007, 10:54 AM
    juddb
    Re: Another Feed Question
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Ringo
    Im just curious as to what is the largest feeder I will ever have to give my ball python. I just started him on adult mice. His length is 22" not exactly sure what his girth is though. The adult mice give him a nice little lump in his tummy so I bought a year supply of adult mice. I would really like to only have to give one feed item per feeding so what should I get next after this years supply. I got the frozen mice from rodentpro.com.

    I would make the switch to 1 small rat a week.
  • 10-03-2007, 11:00 AM
    SatanicIntention
    Re: Another Feed Question
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by juddb
    I would make the switch to 1 small rat a week.

    Why? If he has a year supply of mice, then use those up. If he gets too big for one, then feed two. A male Ball honestly needs only 2 mice a week to thrive and grow at a good rate(not just survive).

    I would see how big he is after you're done with those mice, then you can make the decision on what to go to next. If your snake wants to stay with mice, then order those, or if he does fine with weaned rats(40-50g) then order those since you don't want to bother with more than one prey item a week.
  • 10-03-2007, 11:04 AM
    juddb
    Re: Another Feed Question
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SatanicIntention
    Why? If he has a year supply of mice, then use those up. If he gets too big for one, then feed two. A male Ball honestly needs only 2 mice a week to thrive and grow at a good rate(not just survive).

    I would see how big he is after you're done with those mice, then you can make the decision on what to go to next. If your snake wants to stay with mice, then order those, or if he does fine with weaned rats(40-50g) then order those since you don't want to bother with more than one prey item a week.

    Sorry, i didnt mean right now. But eventually :oops:
  • 10-03-2007, 11:10 AM
    Dr_Gonz0
    Re: Another Feed Question
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Ringo
    Im just curious as to what is the largest feeder I will ever have to give my ball python. I just started him on adult mice. His length is 22" not exactly sure what his girth is though. The adult mice give him a nice little lump in his tummy so I bought a year supply of adult mice. I would really like to only have to give one feed item per feeding so what should I get next after this years supply. I got the frozen mice from rodentpro.com.

    I hope they are vacuum sealed, they will get freezer burn after 6 months if not.

    Robin
  • 10-03-2007, 11:17 AM
    SatanicIntention
    Re: Another Feed Question
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by juddb
    Sorry, i didnt mean right now. But eventually :oops:

    OH! Ok :) No biggie. I was just about to say.. But he has a years supply of meece?

    Also, if the snake doesn't want to make the switch, those jumbo mice that Big Cheese Rodents sell are HUGE. Even the mediums I buy are the size of large mice, so I don't complain(their prices are nice too). You'd likely only have to feed one jumbo mouse to equal a large rat pup or weaned rat.
  • 10-03-2007, 11:32 AM
    Adam_Wysocki
    Re: Another Feed Question
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion
    most offer medium rats to large ball pythons

    I strongly disagree. I am on the phone all day long with the largest ball python breeders in the world, medium and small scale breeders, hobbyists, and pet owners ... I spend my days (7 days a week) discussing every aspect of ball python husbandry (including feeding) with tons of people ... I've also spent 4 years as a highly active member of this message board and much much longer than that as a casual member and lurker on every other message board involving ball pythons on the internet studying how people care for their animals ... while "some" do, it's obvious that most people in the ball python community do not offer medium rats to large ball pythons.

    -adam
  • 10-03-2007, 11:34 AM
    juddb
    Re: Another Feed Question
    boo yah!
  • 10-03-2007, 12:12 PM
    Dr_Gonz0
    Re: Another Feed Question
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki
    I strongly disagree. I am on the phone all day long with the largest ball python breeders in the world, medium and small scale breeders, hobbyists, and pet owners ... I spend my days (7 days a week) discussing every aspect of ball python husbandry (including feeding) with tons of people ... I've also spent 4 years as a highly active member of this message board and much much longer than that as a casual member and lurker on every other message board involving ball pythons on the internet studying how people care for their animals ... while "some" do, it's obvious that most people in the ball python community do not offer medium rats to large ball pythons.

    -adam

    What do you feed your adult breeders Adam?

    Robin
  • 10-03-2007, 12:15 PM
    Adam_Wysocki
    Re: Another Feed Question
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Dr_Gonz0
    What do you feed your adult breeders Adam?

    Robin

    Never anything larger than a "small small" rat ... I call "small smalls" rats that would either be considered a little too large to be a wean or a little too small to be a "good small" ... 40 - 50 grams I'd guess? ... A few hundred adult boys and girls get them once every week here and I gotta tell ya ... it's working great for them! ;) :D :carrot:

    -adam
  • 10-03-2007, 12:52 PM
    Dr_Gonz0
    Re: Another Feed Question
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki
    Never anything larger than a "small small" rat ... I call "small smalls" rats that would either be considered a little too large to be a wean or a little too small to be a "good small" ... 40 - 50 grams I'd guess? ... A few hundred adult boys and girls get them once every week here and I gotta tell ya ... it's working great for them! ;) :D :carrot:

    -adam

    Kewl, i just bought 6 balls that are currently all on mice, but i want to switch them over to rats. Do you find rats are better to feed than mice?

    Robin
  • 10-03-2007, 12:57 PM
    JoshJP7
    Re: Another Feed Question
    Yea Im with Adam on this one... I weigh out my rats every week and the small rats from rodent Pro usually clock in right between 45-55gs. Getting fed every week is SO much more food then they would get in the wild... I wish I could find the picture but someone had a disection photo of a BP that was over fed and you could see the fat buildups all down the side of the snake and it was NASTY!

    Rats/Mice... no difference... Only difference between the two is Rats youll only have to feed them 1 and mice youll have to feed em 2. Nutrition wise theres no difference... All what works for you and your snake.
  • 10-03-2007, 01:07 PM
    Dr_Gonz0
    Re: Another Feed Question
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by JoshJP7
    Yea Im with Adam on this one... I weigh out my rats every week and the small rats from rodent Pro usually clock in right between 45-55gs. Getting fed every week is SO much more food then they would get in the wild... I wish I could find the picture but someone had a disection photo of a BP that was over fed and you could see the fat buildups all down the side of the snake and it was NASTY!

    Rats/Mice... no difference... Only difference between the two is Rats youll only have to feed them 1 and mice youll have to feed em 2. Nutrition wise theres no difference... All what works for you and your snake.

    Thanks guys. I have kept Boas for a while now, but am new to the ball python game.

    Robin
  • 10-03-2007, 01:12 PM
    Adam_Wysocki
    Re: Another Feed Question
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Dr_Gonz0
    Do you find rats are better to feed than mice?

    No, I do not. Over the last 10 years I can't tell you how many siblings that I've raised where one or more would be a mouser and one or more would be a rat eater and when fed gram for gram similar amounts each week they grow at the exact same rate.

    Some ball pythons prefer mice to rats and vice versa ... either one is convenient for me to feed, so I go with what my snakes tell me they want. In the end, it's their best interest and health that I'm most concerned with and not how much food I can pump into them to get them "up to size".

    Listen to your snakes, they'll guide you. ;)

    -adam
  • 10-03-2007, 01:41 PM
    Stewart_Reptiles
    Re: Another Feed Question
    My largest BP eat nothing larger than a small rats 4 weeks old which are about 45/65 grams, or 2 to 3 mice depending on what work for them.
  • 10-03-2007, 01:44 PM
    MeMe
    Re: Another Feed Question
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by GA_Ball_Pythons
    My largest BP eat nothing larger than a small rats 4 weeks old which are about 45/65 grams.


    ditto that.

    :gj:
  • 10-03-2007, 02:27 PM
    WingedWolfPsion
    Re: Another Feed Question
    This is, so far, the only place I know of where people are so adamantly militant about feeding only small rats. Honestly, everyone else I've talked to in other places feed mediums.
    I just don't see how it matters. The snakes aren't fat, they're healthy, and they're doing fine...so why is this so important? lol...
  • 10-03-2007, 02:41 PM
    Adam_Wysocki
    Re: Another Feed Question
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion
    so why is this so important?

    I don't know about anyone else, but It's personally important to me because over the last couple of decades I've fed ball pythons both ways ... small meals and large meals ... and in MY experience, MY ball pythons do MUCH BETTER when fed small meals. They eat more consistently, grow more predictably, breed more reliably, produce larger numbers of viable eggs more frequently, and recover from being gravid much faster. And it's even more important to me to express my experiences and opinions when people post making blanket generalizations about what "most people" with ball pythons do when those generalizations are simply not true.

    -adam
  • 10-03-2007, 02:51 PM
    Ringo
    Re: Another Feed Question
    I just looked at the rodentpro site again and im thinking about going with XL mice once I finish the bag of Adult mice. The adult mice are 20-29g and the XL are 30-50g so one XL a week should cover him when he reaches adult hood shouldnt it. The rodent pro mice come in a zip lock freezer bag that is easy to squeez all of the air out to help prevent freezer burn.
  • 10-03-2007, 03:04 PM
    SatanicIntention
    Re: Another Feed Question
    Yep, should work out just fine.
  • 10-03-2007, 08:36 PM
    lovepig78
    Re: Another Feed Question
    nothing biggetr than a small rat

    or a stunned med rat....

    that the largest i feed
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