Do people falsely use the Graziani line...

Do people falsely use the Graziani line when selling pastels?

Seems like every pastel out there is a Graziani line.

Just doesn't seem fair to the original Graziani line if they are just throwing this out there all the time.

i wouldnt doubt it.

Im sure they do too, along with vpi, nerd, sharp etc...sad, but true. Unless you buy from a reputable breeder or straight from the line you should be fine. :)

It doesn't matter .... buy the best looking pastel within your price range ... if you're in love with the way it looks than it's the snake for you. The days of "lines" are drawing to a close.

-adam

I second what Adam says. At least with pastels, all lines are compatable so it really doesn't make a difference as it would with axanthics.

Also, isn't Grasiani's the first line of pastels so it might well be that most pastels are his line, if it did matter.

It will be interesting to see if lesser and butter lines can be kept apart. At least with the other white snake hets so far I think there is hope that with a little work and the differences to make it possible one could sort a high percentage of the different types out after a cross. But when someone starts breeding a lesser X butter leucistic to normals will they be able to pick out all the lessers from the butters?

How about all the cinnamons from the black pastels when that combined super is bred to normal?

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The days of "lines" are drawing to a close.

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I'm not sure I entirely agree with this, rather I think the definition of a 'line' will be redefined. I can forsee a day when speaking of a certain 'line' will not refer to the breeder that imported it from Africa, but rather it will refer to the breeder who created a certain look through selective breeding...

Mark

I have to agree with Mark. What happens when someone decides to breed a Bell-Lemon cross with a Graziani-Blonde cross and gets a distinct, new look? You can't call it a Bellemoblongrazi.
...Well, you could, but things would get very confusing very fast.

I use pastels as an example just because they're easiest to use, but it'd apply to other morphs too.

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Originally Posted by Seneschal

Bellemoblongrazi.

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Now i want one for the name!

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Originally Posted by Fearless

Now i want one for the name!

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Weeeellll I might have one for sale if you have the right price...:halohorn: :D But y'know it's so stupenderific I just can't show you a picture!:cool:

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Originally Posted by MarkS

I'm not sure I entirely agree with this, rather I think the definition of a 'line' will be redefined. I can forsee a day when speaking of a certain 'line' will not refer to the breeder that imported it from Africa, but rather it will refer to the breeder who created a certain look through selective breeding...

Mark

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I think (and hope) that this will happen. While it is certainly nice for someone to get their name known for being the first to prove out a certain morph, it is a lot more work to create or refine something through selective breeding. I hope breeders that take the time to do this and produce something special will be recognized!

My daughter is interested in corn snakes so I've been browsing around to try to learn more about them. They've been bred in captivity and morphs (which probably were not called morphs back then) since like the 60's or something. Certain looks that existed in the wild were usually named for the region they were found in, such as one called Miami. One of the most beautiful wild varieties is called Okatee (or something close). Someone named Abbott started picking out the most striking Okatees and breeding them and now there are Abbott Okatees which are definitely even more beautiful than regular Okatees and also sell for quite a bit more.

In thoroughbred race horses, people will usually talk about certain lines based on the name of the horse that was the founding sire of that line.

I'd love to see more of that going on too. Thing is, it takes time--quite a long time, with animals that take 3 years to mature. The payoff in the end is that you really DO have something no one else has, and they absolutely can't produce it unless they buy a pair of animals from you. With the huge number of genetic morphs being found in BPs, lines bred for traits the 'hard way' are rare.
Nothing to do about that but relax and get started. :D
BPs have quite a nice color palette of brown, black, orange, yellow, and white. Imagine a 'normal' ball python line simply bred to accentuate one of those colors, or to reduce or increase patterning...etc. Patiently adding some of the genetic morphs into those lines could create some astonishing animals.

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Originally Posted by Seneschal

Weeeellll I might have one for sale if you have the right price...:halohorn: :D But y'know it's so stupenderific I just can't show you a picture!:cool:

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And what gender did you Want it to be? *turns his back* Yup. It's a girl. ;)

the pastel I have was actually an import from Africa.. so does that mean I can call it an Abrams line pastel? :D

When I bought my pastel, his being Graziani line was an added bonus but not the reason I bought him. I really do not judge a pastel on its lineage; more on its looks. I personally love the look with lots of blushing, and Grazianis are pretty well known for that, so it helped..