premature breeding?

quick ?...what happens if bp's breed prematurely? are there any risks? does the female actually lay eggs?...both snakes are about 1yr and 2 months old

Someone more experienced will have to answer that.

My question is why you allowed two young animals together long enough to mate in order for this to be a concern?

well i kind of explained this in another post...my roomate and i both have bp's and we didn't know what sex they were when we got them and they're both housed seperately...but when we do hw or w/e and we take them out we let them roam around and they usually just roam around for a bit or they'll stay really close together and the other day i'm almost positive they were mating.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lucero87

are there any risks?

---

Egg bound can be pretty serious, it could lead to your female's death.

BP should not be house together :colbert: - 1 BP = 1 Enclosure

Males can breed that young and I have heard of 18 month old females successfully breeding and laying viable eggs. Not sure of the negative repercussions. I've never tried to bred mine that young.

The risk is like allowing a 13 year old girl to get pregnant. Technically could she...sure...but is her body ready for the stress...NO WAY


Size is a big concern - egg clutches can get very big and they will use what she has stored to create the eggs (calcium - will be pulled from her bones, fat and blood, proteins, amino acids, etc. All these items are in too short supply in a small female.

All these nutrients will be pulled from her, weakening her. If her body can handle the stress (and the depletion of nutrients) then she will survive...on the down side she could end up with really weak bones (so you pick her up and break something), run out of blood chemicals and become anemic, etc.

If she does go to term...can she recoop afterwards - will she be strong enough to eat again??

There are just too many possible issues...all with bad ending results.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lord jackel

The risk is like allowing a 13 year old girl to get pregnant. Technically could she...sure...but is her body ready for the stress...NO WAY


Size is a big concern - egg clutches can get very big and they will use what she has stored to create the eggs (calcium - will be pulled from her bones, fat and blood, proteins, amino acids, etc. All these items are in too short supply in a small female.

All these nutrients will be pulled from her, weakening her. If her body can handle the stress (and the depletion of nutrients) then she will survive...on the down side she could end up with really weak bones (so you pick her up and break something), run out of blood chemicals and become anemic, etc.

If she does go to term...can she recoop afterwards - will she be strong enough to eat again??


There are just too many possible issues...all with bad ending results.

---

How old should they be and how much should they weigh?

if she is going to lay eggs...how long after mating will i know?? what are the signs...sorry i'm gonna do some research but i was never planning on the two snakes to breed so i'm trying to get some responses from people that know.

oh and also should i feed her more in case this does happen that she gains some weight and get more nutrients?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bright202

How old should they be and how much should they weigh?

---

Most people go by 2 years old, but then it depends on their weight/length ratio. 1500 grams is generally accepted, but some smaller females may never get that heavy, or for the longer girls, 1500g may be to skinny. Also, it seems that overweight males and females do not produce as much viable eggs vs healthy breeders.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bright202

How old should they be and how much should they weigh?

---

Most people use 1500 grams as the minimum weight to breed at. It usually takes 2-3 years to get a snake to this level so 3 years is used as the age target...though age isn't as important as the weight it.

Okay I'll keep this in mind when I start breeding in a few years :D

here's a previous thread about breeding weight/age
http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...light=breeding

ok well the first few ones helped me but after bright posted no one answered my question

if she is going to lay eggs...how long after mating will i know?? what are the signs...sorry i'm gonna do some research but i was never planning on the two snakes to breed so i'm trying to get some responses from people that know.

oh and also should i feed her more in case this does happen that she gains some weight and get more nutrients?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lucero87

ok well the first few ones helped me but after bright posted no one answered my question

if she is going to lay eggs...how long after mating will i know?? what are the signs...sorry i'm gonna do some research but i was never planning on the two snakes to breed so i'm trying to get some responses from people that know.

oh and also should i feed her more in case this does happen that she gains some weight and get more nutrients?

---

Timing:
First she will ovulate - this could be whenever timing is not exact as the "season" to breed is early so she could hold the sperm for a few months.
After she ovulates about 2-3 weeks later she will have a post ovulation shed, then about 30 days after this shed she will lay eggs. (give or take a few days here or there)

As for feeding a fat ball is a sickly ball...so I would continue your normal feeding pattern - once a week and appropriate sized prey item.

Just to put your mind at ease you have a lot working for you that she is NOT pregnant.


1. She wasn't cooled - so her body isn't ready to breed
2. She is small/young - most animals know they aren't ready to breed
3. She was only with a male a short time and only once.
4. On average even when we try to breed balls it usually only ends with eggs about 50% of the time (large scale rough avg. )

This doesn't mean chance encounters don't lead to eggs but I wouldn't lose sleep over it...just keep an eye out for the signs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lucero87

the other day i'm almost positive they were mating.

---

Before you get too worked up, and I'm a bit surprised this hasn't been asked, what leads you to believe they were mating? Were they locked up (I'll attach a pic of a lock up), and how long were they locked up? We're not talking geckos here with one pump and a jump; ball pythons stay locked up for hours, even days sometimes. If they were breeding you would be more than "almost positive"

http://gallery.pethobbyist.com/data/...LBMXHETF-2.jpg

http://gallery.pethobbyist.com/data/...LBMXHETF-3.jpg

yup it looked exactly like that and they were like that for i'd say about 20 mins-30 mins b4 i noticed and then when i moved i got startled (i had another post of when i was freaking out because one of the bp's was bleeding because they were mating and i startled them)

thanks for the answers btw

Why were two snakes out roaming the floor for 20-30 minutes without supervision?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lucero87

yup it looked exactly like that and they were like that for i'd say about 20 mins-30 mins b4 i noticed and then when i moved i got startled (i had another post of when i was freaking out because one of the bp's was bleeding because they were mating and i startled them)

thanks for the answers btw

---

Out of curiosity, if neither of you know what the sex is of your snakes what leads you to believe you have the female?

they were being supervised i was in the room and they were next to me i just didn't think that they'd be doing that i was doing my hw and they were just still and i could see them out of the corner of my eye...well i believe that one is a female because one is A LOT bigger than the other, which i guess neccessarily doesn't mean anything but it did seem like they were locked together

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lord jackel

though age isn't as important as the weight it.

---

I actually think the age is way more important for females than the weight.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GA_Ball_Pythons

Egg bound can be pretty serious, it could lead to your female's death.

BP should not be house together :colbert: - 1 BP = 1 Enclosure

---

He said they were housed seperatly. But they let them roam around together....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lord jackel

4. On average even when we try to breed balls it usually only ends with eggs about 50% of the time (large scale rough avg. )

---

I think most breeders get a way better average than 50%. Most are closer to 80-90% of females bred becoming gravid.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pfan151

I think most breeders get a way better average than 50%. Most are closer to 80-90% of females bred becoming gravid.

---

Not according to this thread

http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=53385

As I said it was a rough avg., but I haven't seen anyone say they are getting 80-90% . What is your source for saying it is so high?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pfan151

I actually think the age is way more important for females than the weight.

---

Why? As this doesn't appear to be the concensus.

thanks for the responses...hopefully she won't become gravid and i'll make sure that next time we take them out that doesn't happen...i just didn't expect it to happen because i thought u needed like proper care to introduce them to each other and you had to prepare them for breeding and all these other things. I didn't think that they would do it on the floor

and i REALLY hope it's not that high

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lucero87

I didn't think that they would do it on the floor

---

They are teenagers they will do it anywhere they can :carrot:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lord jackel

Not according to this thread

http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=53385

As I said it was a rough avg., but I haven't seen anyone say they are getting 80-90% . What is your source for saying it is so high?

---

Just personal experience, and I am pretty sure I asked Adam last year what he usually expects as far as percentages and I remember him saying in that range. I know for me, I would be very dissapointed in only getting clutches out of 50% of my females that were bred. I bred 10 females last year and got 8 clutches. I think the only reason the other 2 did not go is because they were only 05's. I think if your females are of proper size and age you should easily get over a 50% gravid rate.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pfan151

Just personal experience, and I am pretty sure I asked Adam last year what he usually expects as far as percentages and I remember him saying in that range.

---

Fair enough...I have spoken to local breeders here who were closer to 50-60%. I am sure there are a lot of considerations into what the precentage will be and unless more people are willing to share we may never know for sure what the real avg. is. But I am sure it will land between 0% and 100% :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lord jackel

Why? As this doesn't appear to be the concensus.

---

I have a couple females that will never get to the accepted 1500g. One is an 03 at 1200g and one is an 04 at 1100g. The 03 layed 4 good eggs last season and the 04 will be bred this season. I think my older females have a much better shot at producing good eggs than 06 animals that were fed heavily to get over the 1500g mark. Once the females get over 3 years old than I would agree that weight is more important. I was actually trying to say that I think smaller older females have a better success rate than young 18 month old females that are over 1500g.

To the original poster, I would not worry. It is very unlikly that she will get gravid at only 1 year old. If it was really only 20-30 mins thay were together the male may not have even successfully mated with her.