High-End die on delivery?

Just wondering.

Anyone ever have or hear of a high end ($) bp dying on delivery?

I know I'm going to get alot of "well, if your buying a high end bp from a quality breeder then you do not have to worry about this".

This could happen to anyone, even the best of them IMO.

Considering a 10,000 dollar ball or a 50 dollar ball could die from shipping, I am sure it can happen, and will.

i would be so upset, i hope theres insurance!

Most offer a live arrival guarantee. Reputable breeders will stand behind their guarantee.

If I was getting a high end snake I'd be driving myself to go pick it up.

Buy like the above mentioned most reputable breeders have a guarantee.

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Originally Posted by N4S

Anyone ever have or hear of a high end ($) bp dying on delivery?

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This was to see if any of you have had this happen or heard of this ever happening. I wasnt really getting at the guarantee end of it.

no biggie though.

I have heard of it happening...just by reading through forums and such.

This however has never happened to me or anyone I know personally.

In 4 or 5 years of shipping ball morphs I've only ever had one "DOA". I say "" as it was not really DOA. 3 years ago I shipped a box with 2 or 3 female yb's and 2 or 3 female pastels (back then a $10K box) in the winter. The receiver got the box that had 2 heat packs in it and rather than opening it put it in his snake room with ambient room temps at 85, did not crack the box until the following morning. One of the female pastels was dead. Being able to, I replaced her.

I had it happen to me last year. I shipped a pair of Axanthics to California. The temps were perfect for the entire trip, and no heat or cool packs were required. I shipped Delta Dash. The box got to Atlanta, and missed the connecting flight. It then got to California late, where the Delta agents had told my customer he would have to come back the next morning (which is completely wrong, as he can claim it in the baggage area). The next morning I got a call that informed me the female Axanthic was DOA. It appeared that she had overheated. I think the box was left in the sun in Atlanta. I then proceeded to box up another female Axanthics and send her on her way. The second one made it fine.

p.s. Getting claims money from Delta is next to impossible, even after I appealed twice. Don't expect to get anything from their insurance policy.

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Originally Posted by muddoc

I then proceeded to box up another female Axanthics and send her on her way. The second one made it fine.

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You're a good man :gj:

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Originally Posted by muddoc

p.s. Getting claims money from Delta is next to impossible, even after I appealed twice. Don't expect to get anything from their insurance policy.

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Is the max insurance still $750 with Delta?

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Originally Posted by cueball

Is the max insurance still $750 with Delta?

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It's $750 for Dash, but unlimited via their priority first service ... the problem is that priority first has longer required layovers which is a pain in the ace.

This is a great thread though and an important thing to inquire about when making a high dollar purchase (or any purchase) ... what will the breeder do if something goes wrong ... replacement animal? cash refund? ... how does the "live arrival guarantee" work? Ask questions ... know WHO you're sending your money to.

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

It's $750 for Dash, but unlimited via their priority first service ... the problem is that priority first has longer required layovers which is a pain in the ace.

This is a great thread though and an important thing to inquire about when making a high dollar purchase (or any purchase) ... what will the breeder do if something goes wrong ... replacement animal? cash refund? ... how does the "live arrival guarantee" work? Ask questions ... know WHO you're sending your money to.

-adam

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Good answer to the Cueman's question.

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

It's $750 for Dash, but unlimited via their priority first service ... the problem is that priority first has longer required layovers which is a pain in the ace.

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Ahhh...good info..thanks!

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Ask questions ... know WHO you're sending your money to.

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Great advice Adam! I know when I bought some snakes from you I asked about that and your terms where very fair. I also felt like you where in a possition to honor those terms :gj:

I know you have sent shipments worldwide. Any complications there?

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Originally Posted by cueball

You're a good man :gj:

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Thanks. It's what I would expect as a purchaser.

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Originally Posted by cueball

I know you have sent shipments worldwide. Any complications there?

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Not at all. This is my 11th year shipping snakes and I've gotten it pretty much down to a science. Longest trip ever was 2.2 adult and sub-adult pastels and 1.1 lessers (a couple years ago when these guys were $$$$) to china ... between the numerous changes in flights/airlines and the multiple inspections by the chinese government the snakes were in the bags for 37.5 hours ... I was on pins and needles the entire time ... but they all made it safe and sound and will be producing some really nice stuff this coming season!

-adam

I just got my shipment yesterday at 2pm (around Monday 2am in the States), my exporter shipped them out Saturday so it took around 30+ hours. Problem is my shipment stayed in Taiwan for 10 hours waiting for connection flight to Bangkok.

I was way beyound nervous because this shipment there're 1 high white pied, 1 bee, 6 Albino, 1 Ivory, 3 Lesser, 4 pinstripe, 1 super pastel, 1 black pastel, 4 Spider, 12 '07 Pastel, 5 '06 Pastel, 4 Mojave, 1 adult female Pewter, 1 adult female Mojave, 1 adult female Spider, and 3 adult female Pastels.

The '07 balls are dehydrated so bad most of them sleep inside the water bowl lol

The pied got badly scratched(from the packing)so I won't be able to sell him till he shed. I might even keep him now coz he looks pretty nice.

However, I'm glad another shipment went out nicely.

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil.../pied-back.jpg
Barely notice in picture but irl one of my customer decided not to buy him because of the scratch.

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...ied-back-2.jpg
or is it a bruise?

lol I'll have to see, I'm getting snakes shipped to me for the first time. I'm getting one delivered tomorrow, and three shipped from 2 different people wed to arrive thursday ><

I've shipped many times and never had one DOA. As others have said, know your breeder and his/her guarantee. We stand behind our snakes 100% and will replace or refund depending on what the customer wants.

On the other hand, I've had tons of snakes shipped to me from all over the US and never had one DOA either. I've dealt with reputable breeders who take their time and make sure the shipment is packed correctly and only ship when temps are safe. I've also been lucky that the shippers (Delta Dash, FedEx, etc) haven't screwed up.

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

This is a great thread though and an important thing to inquire about when making a high dollar purchase (or any purchase) ... what will the breeder do if something goes wrong ... replacement animal? cash refund? ... how does the "live arrival guarantee" work? Ask questions ... know WHO you're sending your money to.

-adam

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Great comment there Adam. This has been on my mind this week as I've had some time on my hands and been reading the BOI a bit more than usual (that place can make one's ears bleed, anyways...).

It blows me away that people send money to just about anybody for a snake and then don't even have an address on the seller or a full name or phone number when things go wrong. How in the world does someone do that? How can you expect to get someone to honor a guarantee when you only know them from some sort of yahoo email address? Maybe I'm just overly cautious but I cannot imagine buying a living creature, let alone sending hard earned money to some joker I've never heard of and haven't a clue who he is or where he is?

Do people just get caught up in a "great deal" or are they just that naive?

The best "insurance" I can think of is buying from a good breeder that I trust. :)

This is a great thread!!!! :rockon:

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Originally Posted by muddoc

I had it happen to me last year. I shipped a pair of Axanthics to California. The temps were perfect for the entire trip, and no heat or cool packs were required. I shipped Delta Dash. The box got to Atlanta, and missed the connecting flight. It then got to California late, where the Delta agents had told my customer he would have to come back the next morning (which is completely wrong, as he can claim it in the baggage area). The next morning I got a call that informed me the female Axanthic was DOA. It appeared that she had overheated. I think the box was left in the sun in Atlanta. I then proceeded to box up another female Axanthics and send her on her way. The second one made it fine.

p.s. Getting claims money from Delta is next to impossible, even after I appealed twice. Don't expect to get anything from their insurance policy.

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What I've been told by delta is that your only chance for a claim is if the package is actually lost for 48 plus hours. They actually even refused a refund for a package that I sent to Copenhagen that was shipped on a Friday supposed to be there on Saturday that went from miami to Atlanta. From there it was supposed to go straight to copenhagen but instead went to Texas, then went back to Atlanta where it was misplaced again and not delivered until Monday. Luckily everything made it just fine but delta literally did not even refund the shipping costs after multiple complaints.

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Originally Posted by neilgolli

What I've been told by delta is that your only chance for a claim is if the package is actually lost for 48 plus hours. They actually even refused a refund for a package that I sent to Copenhagen that was shipped on a Friday supposed to be there on Saturday that went from miami to Atlanta. From there it was supposed to go straight to copenhagen but instead went to Texas, then went back to Atlanta where it was misplaced again and not delivered until Monday. Luckily everything made it just fine but delta literally did not even refund the shipping costs after multiple complaints.

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What about FedEx? From the documents I signed to become "certified" basically says that you cannot file a claim against them. They have clauses that state that any guarantee regarding shipping (time, live arrival, etc.) are voided when sending reptiles. Anyone have a comment on this?

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Originally Posted by lord jackel

What about FedEx? From the documents I signed to become "certified" basically says that you cannot file a claim against them. They have clauses that state that any guarantee regarding shipping (time, live arrival, etc.) are voided when sending reptiles. Anyone have a comment on this?

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I have not had an issue with fedex to verify it, but my understanding is that you are still guaranteed that your package will arrive on time or its free, but they take zero responsibility if the animals are alive or dead.

I have yet to have a DOA, but in that case the customer would absolutely receive a new animal or a complete refund. Like Adam said, know who you're giving your money to.

I'm always on pins and needles when I have snakes in transit... :)

Justin

So far I've never recieved a DOA or shipped a DOA. With proper packing a snake should be just fine for easily 24 -48 hrs. I've had a couple of shipments I sent out where the pkg got lost by FedEx or something silly like that and they took two days to arrive instead of one, but all was well.

That being said, if I ever spend $5k on an animal, I'd probably just go drive and get it; even if it was hundreds of miles away. At that point, what's another $200 in gas money if it ensures the safety of your mega expensive snake?

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Originally Posted by jkobylka

I have yet to have a DOA, but in that case the customer would absolutely receive a new animal or a complete refund.

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With no questions asked? I bring this up as Neil said he sent a replacement to a guy who left the snakes in a box for an entire day!!

At what point does the buyer have any responsibility?

I have only shipped one snake and it went fine but it started me thinking about gurantees and what the responsibility is for the buyer is/should be.

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Originally Posted by hgrub

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...ied-back-2.jpg
or is it a bruise?

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Just looks like a dirty pied. Has he always had that mark? If not has he been on wet aspen, newspaper, bedding since his last shed? Did he take a trip though some poo?

I've seen pied get dirty and discolored because of wet bedding and taking strolls though their poo. If that is the case, it should come off next time he sheds.

he's not dirty, he got bruise or scratch on his back on the way here. I saw his picture before he left, so the seller and I agree to blame everything on my bad luck that the exporter dicide to put him in cloth bag and shove him under the pile of other ball pythons lol

One friend who's a vet dropped by last night and he told me this pied will be as good as new once he shed.

I have never had a "doa" arrival. Granted, I have only had 3 snakes shipped, but all were fine on arrival. My first one years ago was shipped "illegally" through UPS and arrived fine, but I assume she was knocked around because she was really agitated upon opening her up (it was Bela, and her nature is pretty calm and "confident." My others were more professionally done Fedex and were fine as well. I would never ship nor condone shipping things "under the radar" not being certified to do so though. The seller that shipped UPS is now Fedex certified as far as his website states.
I am in the stages of becoming Fedex certified and they just approved my package and sent it back.

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Originally Posted by lord jackel

With no questions asked? I bring this up as Neil said he sent a replacement to a guy who left the snakes in a box for an entire day!!

At what point does the buyer have any responsibility?

I have only shipped one snake and it went fine but it started me thinking about gurantees and what the responsibility is for the buyer is/should be.

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No, no, there has been a couple times where the buyer has left the box sitting outside for hours on their porch. In those cases I was ready to nullify my live guarantee, but the animal was fine.

The buyer definately does carry some weight of the responsibility for the safety of the animal. It can be difficult sometimes to reconcile that with your own responsibility, since you don't have a video following your box through the entire shipping process.

Justin

Yeah; they buyer has to take their part seriously. I always take the day off when I am expecting a snake; I won't have it be missed and left in my hallway where my landlord's dog could grab it or something crazy like that. Not to even mention temperatures..

i know some one who lost an adult male albino shipping out of country...and insurance did not do anything but he did ship out another to the customer the next day. the snake was DOA from being left outside at the airport by the people loading the plane

Poor guy. That really sucks, he was reimbursed, but the poor albino died. :mad:

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Originally Posted by lord jackel

With no questions asked? I bring this up as Neil said he sent a replacement to a guy who left the snakes in a box for an entire day!!

At what point does the buyer have any responsibility?

I have only shipped one snake and it went fine but it started me thinking about gurantees and what the responsibility is for the buyer is/should be.

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Questions do need to asked and normally you should require a picture. Each case needs to be looked at individually and while I should not have replaced that particular animal. The individual who bought it is one of those guys that "talks" a LOT. I replaced the animal for reputation sake alone. Knowing that only one side of the story would have ever been told and the end result would have been people hearing a story that I shipped an animal, had a 24 hour no questions asked guarantee, the animal was dead when the box was opened and I did nothing.

Its the same thing as some companies settling law suites even though they would win hands down in a court of law, it costs less in the long run. Its unfortunate however it was early on, shortly after becoming full time. Building a reputable name takes time and sometimes taking it in the backside but you do what is right and sometimes go above and beyond and your rewarded in the long run.

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Originally Posted by neilgolli

Questions do need to asked and normally you should require a picture. Each case needs to be looked at individually and while I should not have replaced that particular animal. The individual who bought it is one of those guys that "talks" a LOT. I replaced the animal for reputation sake alone. Knowing that only one side of the story would have ever been told and the end result would have been people hearing a story that I shipped an animal, had a 24 hour no questions asked guarantee, the animal was dead when the box was opened and I did nothing.

Its the same thing as some companies settling law suites even though they would win hands down in a court of law, it costs less in the long run. Its unfortunate however it was early on, shortly after becoming full time. Building a reputable name takes time and sometimes taking it in the backside but you do what is right and sometimes go above and beyond and your rewarded in the long run.

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I agree...and an excellent response.:)

If I had sold a snake and the buyer said that it was DOA, I would require a photo to be taken within, say, 12 hours of shipping.. showing the dead snake.. does this sound good or is that too long of a time frame, do you think?

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Originally Posted by Ginevive

If I had sold a snake and the buyer said that it was DOA, I would require a photo to be taken within, say, 12 hours of shipping.. showing the dead snake.. does this sound good or is that too long of a time frame, do you think?

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A picture is normally needed as I actually had someone once build their own rack, they bought a baby female pied. Called me after 36 hours, said it was dead and wanted their money back. I asked for a picture and he would not send it. It smelled fishy, told him I needed a pic as it was beyond my normal guarantee but that I'd treat him fairly. Many emails went back and forth and no picture was ever sent. Months later I found out that he had used wire mess, like the freedom breeder racks HOWEVER the gap was larger. They went to open the tub and nearly decapitated the pied as its head fit threw the metal mess and when the tub was opened he poor head was caught.

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Originally Posted by neilgolli

A picture is normally needed as I actually had someone once build their own rack, they bought a baby female pied. Called me after 36 hours, said it was dead and wanted their money back. I asked for a picture and he would not send it. It smelled fishy, told him I needed a pic as it was beyond my normal guarantee but that I'd treat him fairly. Many emails went back and forth and no picture was ever sent. Months later I found out that he had used wire mess, like the freedom breeder racks HOWEVER the gap was larger. They went to open the tub and nearly decapitated the pied as its head fit threw the metal mess and when the tub was opened he poor head was caught.

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Now that is a crappy outcome!

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Originally Posted by neilgolli

Questions do need to asked and normally you should require a picture.

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I also know several reptile breeders that stipulate that the dead snake/lizard must be shipped back in order to be reinbursed or to get a replacement. The guys that I know that do this pay for the shipping etc....all it takes on the part of the customer is droping the package back off to the shipping company..... seems that some feel a picture just isn't good enough.

In my experiece the DOA in question must be shown in a photo within 24 hours of arrival. I have recieved and shipped many beardies and snakes and have never had a problem but sometimes things are out of your hands and refunds or replacements are part of doing reputable business.


Hgrub that peid may have just shed which makes getting scratched REAL easy.
I have seen this on albinos too. Darker snakes also get scratched easily too right after shed but it is difficult to see. Glad to see they made the long trip safe. Are they from Brian?

Westcoast,

Couldn't close the deal with Brian in time to make my shipment. Will definitely get some nice things from him next time.

He got many nice things that I want for myself :)

T it looks like you have been some nice stuff.


Brock