Ralph's new Lesser Pied

What do guys think of the Lesser Pied, I'm still trying to theorize the genetics?

Randy, very interested in hearing your take!

http://www.ralphdavisreptiles.com/im...lutch_71_2.jpg

Pretty awesome IMO.

He described how he "predicted" that was going to happen...I don't know about that...but it makes sense when you think about it. Lessers lack all of the darker colors that show up in the patterning on regular pieds...so combine the two...there still may be "pattern" there, but the lesser gene is turning it off so nothing shows, and you've got an all white snake.

As far as pied combos go...I'm still waiting on the caramel albino pied.

Very cool IMO...should be nice to see it as it grows.

Wow....just....wow! I wish I could get a better look at the eyes on that baby...they look kind of strange in the pics on his page, but that just may be the angle of the shot and the whole "newborn" look that the light colored snakes have.

I definitely want to see more pictures of that as it grows. If it makes a true pied-white snake, that'll be so cool!

And I couldn't help but notice as I scrolled down to look at other clutches that he has the het-labby clutch "classified"....I haven't looked through his hatching pages or blog in quite awhile, but I don't think I've ever seen him hide a clutch like that. VERY intriguing!!

Thats amazing id like to see him grown up a bit....

What color eyes does it have? There's a glare so I can't really make 'em out.

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Originally Posted by SatanicIntention

What color eyes does it have? There's a glare so I can't really make 'em out.

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I was wondering myself....

The eyes look white? Trip out

Remember Pied is a form of leucism and Lesser is a heterozygous form of Leucism so like a Mojo and Lesser make a BEL Pied and Lesser make a form of Leucism. But did ralph say if the animal was produce from a Lesser het pied to pied/het pied or a lesser het pied to lesser het pied. If its the latter we may be seeing a BEL Pied. not a Lesser Pied

"Leucism is a condition characterized by reduced pigmentation in animals. Unlike albinism, it is caused by a reduction in all types of skin pigment, not just melanin.

Leucism is a general term for the phenotype resulting from defects in pigment cell differentiation and/or migration from the neural crest to skin, hair or feathers during development. This results in either the entire surface (if all pigment cells fail to develop) or patches of body surface (if only a subset are defective) having a lack of cells capable of making pigment.

Since all pigment cell-types differentiate from the same multipotent precursor cell-type, leucism can cause the reduction in all types of pigment. This is in contrast to albinism, for which leucism is often mistaken. Albinism results in the reduction of melanin production only, though the melanocyte (or melanophore) is still present. Thus in species that have other pigment cell-types, for example xanthophores, albinos are not entirely white, but instead display a pale yellow colour.

More common than a complete absence of pigment cells is localized or incomplete hypopigmentation, resulting in irregular patches of white on an animal that otherwise has normal colouring and patterning. This partial leucism is known as a "pied" or "piebald" effect; and the ratio of white to normal-coloured skin can vary considerably not only between generations, but between different offspring from the same parents, and even between members of the same litter. This is notable in horses, the urban crow[1] and the ball python[2] but is also found in many other species. In contrast, albinism always affects the entire animal.

A further difference between albinism and leucism is in eye colour. Due to the lack of melanin production in both the retinal pigmented epithelium (RPE) and iris, albinos typically have red eyes due to the underlying blood vessels showing through. In contrast, leucistic animals have normally coloured eyes. This is because the melanocytes of the RPE are not derived from the neural crest, instead an outpouching of the neural tube generates the optic cup which, in turn, forms the retina. As these cells are from an independent developmental origin, they are typically unaffected by the genetic cause of leucism."
Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leucism

I just read where the pairing was a lesser het pied and a pied..Does any one get the magnitude of this. The Pied gene is compatible with a lucy gene. That produce a white headed Pied. :carrot: :carrot: :carrot: :carrot: :carrot: :carrot: :carrot:

Does anyone know of a link to a mojave/pied or know of a good place to find photos of any different mojave X ??? morphs?

Im kinda tired of all white snakes. i was really wanting a pied with lesser colors.

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Originally Posted by djansen

Im kinda tired of all white snakes. i was really wanting a pied with lesser colors.

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I'm with you there. 950 million ways to make a white snake. Bring on the super Phantoms. :D:D:D:D:D

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Originally Posted by djansen

Im kinda tired of all white snakes. i was really wanting a pied with lesser colors.

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I agree. they are pretty in their own right, but a pied with lesser colors would have been smokin'. perhaps as it matures.. we'll just have to wait and see.

i do not believe the mojo pied has been made yet..could be wrong though

I've seen the Cinni Pied but not a Mojo Pied. Every one is jones about lessers Mojos kinda got over looked. And since super Mojos aren't totally absent of color I'd bet my shorts that there will be color on a Mojo Pied.

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

I've seen the Cinni Pied but not a Mojo Pied. Every one is jones about lessers Mojos kinda got over looked. And since super Mojos aren't totally absent of color I'd bet my shorts that there will be color on a Mojo Pied.

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Who produced the cinni pied? Also where can i see it? i was under the impression that it hadnt been produced yet :confused:

I'll see if I can find that pic

yes please to that one i have got to see yet

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Originally Posted by juddb

Who produced the cinni pied? Also where can i see it? i was under the impression that it hadnt been produced yet :confused:

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Gulf Coast Reptiles...and it was a Black Pastel Pied.;)

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

More common than a complete absence of pigment cells is localized or incomplete hypopigmentation, resulting in irregular patches of white on an animal that otherwise has normal colouring and patterning. This partial leucism is known as a "pied" or "piebald" effect; and the ratio of white to normal-coloured skin can vary considerably not only between generations, but between different offspring from the same parents, and even between members of the same litter. This is notable in horses, the urban crow[1] and the ball python[2] but is also found in many other species. In contrast, albinism always affects the entire animal."
Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leucism

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My question is kind of off topic and directed at anyone who can answer, but it says that albinism always affects the entire animal... How would the paradox effect be explained? :confused:

All I can say is wow... I am late!

Oh.... Randy Remington!:D

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Originally Posted by JBallPython

Oh.... Randy Remington!:D

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:8: I dont know why that made me laugh so much.... Hilarious.

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Originally Posted by casperca

My question is kind of off topic and directed at anyone who can answer, but it says that albinism always affects the entire animal... How would the paradox effect be explained? :confused:

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Think of a paradox more like glitch within the mutation like birth marks. Its where the DNA in those cell don't receive the albino set of development instructions.

Hope that helps. :D

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

Think of a paradox more like glitch within the mutation like birth marks. Its where the DNA in those cell don't receive the albino set of development instructions.

Hope that helps. :D

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So....its like a paradox? LMAO....

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Originally Posted by JBallPython

So....its like a paradox? LMAO....

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Hey Bingo.

Off topic but a crazy fact.

Paradox's don't have to be homozygous. You can have a het albino that is a paradox albino. So in essence you have a paradox albino that only carries one copy of the gene. :D :D :D :D Now thats cool.

Example you breed an albino to a normal female expecting to get all hets and low and behold you get all normal looking hets and a paradox het albino

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Originally Posted by JBallPython

So....its like a paradox? LMAO....

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better than a conundrum ... easier to spell at least! :sweeet:

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

better than a conundrum ... easier to spell at least! :sweeet:

-adam

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LOL wow ok you win.. LOL

Here's the link for those of you interested in seeing the black pastel pied

http://gallery.kingsnake.com/data/20...pastel-med.gif

**jaw drops** Oh my! Wow! Gimmie Gimmie! I saw that that was on the kingsnake gallery, you don't suppose it's for sale do you? I don't need my car that badly....lol

That snake is awesome! It's my favorite pied cross to date. I do have some others I'd love to see, but as of yet it's my favorite!

I was really disappointed that the lesser pied was just another white snake, I was hoping a pied that just had lessers colors. Oh well, I'll wait for the Mojave pied, or super cinny pied. I'm also interested if the pinstripe pied will do the same thing the spider does (all white with a spider head) I was very disappointed in this as well...

I just wish the cinny pied was more 50/50. I'm not as much of a fan of high white pieds.

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Originally Posted by JBallPython

Here's the link for those of you interested in seeing the black pastel pied

http://gallery.kingsnake.com/data/20...pastel-med.gif

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Yeah that clears it up some. Genetics are so facinating. Just when you think you have it figured out something shows up like the paradox and totally blows your mind. Thanks for the info.

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Originally Posted by JBallPython

Here's the link for those of you interested in seeing the black pastel pied

http://gallery.kingsnake.com/data/20...pastel-med.gif

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Thank you Jason thats the link I was looking for. :D

I'm awaiting the super cinny(super black pastel) pied. That's the first black pastel pied, it's got to come up soon. Was that a male or female? Is it known?
Nice lesser pied. I was hoping for lesser colors with pied markings too.

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Originally Posted by wolfy-hound

I'm awaiting the super cinny(super black pastel) pied. That's the first black pastel pied, it's got to come up soon. Was that a male or female? Is it known?
Nice lesser pied. I was hoping for lesser colors with pied markings too.

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Yea super Cinni Pied would be hot. I coulbe be called the dalmation ball

Or Cow Ball, Or Retro Ball (in referance to black and white tv/photographs)

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Originally Posted by Holbeird

Or Cow Ball, Or Retro Ball (in referance to black and white tv/photographs)

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Yea I could see it now..

Ralph at Daytona 09. This is my Dreamcicle, my super phantom and my Holstein ball

haha i was just thinking about the super cinny peid the other day and thought thatd be so cool.

what would happen if you crossed a

super cinny x lesser? (lighter brown patternless? maybe white?)

or

super cinny x abino? (patternless albino?)

or

axanthic x albino ?

Yay! Now i get to go look at my VPI book, and find an awnser, if there is one...

Would this Lesser Pied be the cleanest white snake ever produced? If the Lesser line of BEL is the whitest of the whitesnake gene, and Pieds are pure white, I'd love to see this progress. I am such a fan of white snakes; I don't care how many different kinds you can make, lol. It actually inspired me to make a new website... it's forthcoming ;)

If we're interested in adding some color, maybe instead of a Mojo, cross Pied with a Phantom. Those Super Phantoms are killer.

:8:

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

Yea I could see it now..

Ralph at Daytona 09. This is my Dreamcicle, my super phantom and my Holstein ball

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Wow, I was very surprised to see the lesser pied all white. I personally love white snakes and find a new way to make them and the possibility that this one will be on another level of clean white very exciting.

However, I'm confused as to if this is a 100% white pied (i.e. the white pattern of the pied all over the body) or a regular pied where the "normal" areas just happen to also be white and not stand out from the pied areas. Sort of like you might expect a snow pied to be, all white but with two tones, pied white and snow white in the areas that didn’t get the pied white.

These pics look like one white so I'm thinking that the lesser mutation somehow turned the pied mutation loose to cover 100% of the body. Like how spider seems to let pied cover all but the head, lesser might totally remove anything holding the pied white pattern back from covering the entire snake.

If i am correct, a pied is a ball python with part leucism, where as a super-lesser, the BEL is a full leucistic. So my guess is that a lesser/pied creates another full leucistic snake. Not just two different whites that blend together like a snow pied would be.

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Originally Posted by JBallPython

Here's the link for those of you interested in seeing the black pastel pied

http://gallery.kingsnake.com/data/20...pastel-med.gif

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Wow thanks for posting him, thats amazing....