What do you make of snake-phobic people?

I'd like to survey the crowd around here about what everyone thinks about ophidiophobia (fear of snakes), either minor or major cases.

I always ask myself, why the huge number of ophidiophobes out there? Every non-snake-oriented person I have ever met, when I talk about my BP, first thing I get asked is: "Does he bite?" I like to give the answer, "Nearly any animal will bite when provoked enough." But dogs and cats can bite and are certainly capable of lots of damage, and yet snakes get the worse rep for it.

Some people would point to the venom factor, that some snakes are deadly, but the fact is that snake phobic people exist even in areas where there is little to no danger of venomous snakes in the area, or even many wild snakes period.

I am starting to form a hypothesis that it has to do with snakes in our culture as symbols. It all started with the Adam and Eve story, as we all know. But it continues with the media and entertainment industry. E.g.,
-movies like Anaconda, Snakes on a Plane, etc. etc.
-the constant stream of shows on Discovery/Animal Planet about "snake wrangler" types and people who go after the most venomous snakes and almost get their heads bitten off when they get right up in the snake's territory and face. (Well, duh!)
-lack of information available that most snakes are not venomous

What does everyone have to say on this topic?

I am scared of small fast snakes(garters, racers) while big giants don't freak me out one bit.

I originally thought that it had to do with how you were raised, if you were raised to be scared, then you would be but I realized that wasn't the point. My parents were both raised to scared of snakes but I am a total addict. I can't figure out what it is. Is there any reason why some people are afraid of spiders? I know of a Trant. lady who has an arachnaphobic(sp?) daughter, how would that come to be?
Great idea for a thread

My parents tried to raise me to be scarred of snakes but i do the oppistite of everything they told me when i was young so i was always out catching random snakes. My mom was deathly afraid of them and when i finally snuck home my first ball python after she looked at it a few times she said she would touch it.. that lead to her petting it. She still wont hold it but if i need her to she will throw a mouse in there and watch it eat.

I feel that with time around snakes a person with a fear of them could get over it. I have seen it happen with my mom. I think people need to be more educated about snakes (like which are harmful and how to tell the difference.)

I think there are many reasons why people are scared of snakes.
Instinctual: Lets face it, many animals are leery of snakes so why not humans?

Upbringing: If you're taught snakes are dangerous, deadly, evil, the devil (yes I've seen people literally scream and cry that a garter snake in their yard was the actual devil himself coming to get them), etc. then most people will continue that thought process throughout their lives.

Lack of knowledge about snakes: This is the biggest one in my opinion. People are scared of what they know nothing about. 99% of the population couldn't tell you jack about snakes, other than what they've learned from Hollywood and urban legends. So why wouldn't they ask "does it bite" or "is it poisonous" and "are they slimy"?

Bad experience with a snake or snakes: If someone gets mauled by a German Shepard chances are that person will be wary of the next German Shepard they come across.
My grandmother is scared to death of snakes. This stems from a bad childhood experience in which she was playing outside and fell down onto a large snake that she did not see and it hissed and bit her and then squirmed all over her.
If you followed the 'Indiana Jones' movies you learn in the 3rd one how he became scared of snakes, which stemmed from a bad experience.

Finally you just have phobias. There is no reason what-so-ever for them to be scared but they just are. Just like some people are scared of large open spaces, or closed in tight spaces, the dark, the sun, etc.

I understand it and don't blame them, heck I'm not too fond of spiders. But what I can't stand are the people who then go out of their way kill any and every snake they see.

Oh and there will always be those who don't listen to their parents or are curious and will try to learn about something instead of fearing it, or who were raised differently. So that's where we come in. :)

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Originally Posted by panthercz

My grandmother is scared to death of snakes. This stems from a bad childhood experience in which she was playing outside and fell down onto a large snake that she did not see and it hissed and bit her and then squirmed all over her.

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that would scare the crap out of me if i was little...

would probably be deathly afraid of snakes as well.

I think most of the people aren't phobic. They are ignorant of snakes.
They think it will bite you, turn on you, eat you while you sleep... all the media images, and myths they've always been told. I mean, people are always willing to believe the worst, because let's face it, it's more exciting ot them to think that harmless ball python will get out and swallow you up on night. The reality of the ball python sitting in his bin day after day doing nothing harmful is boring.
Most images people see of snakes is in the media, which is full of striking snakes. Look at youtube, see how many videos are of feeding snakes, as opposed to snakes sitting quietly. In the news, you only see the snakes that attacked their owner, not the green snake that someone has owned since it was a glorified worm. So when they see a snake, the brain immediately focuses on the most recent/memorable image it has in the memory.
If people saw dogs attacking people all the time, and saw dogs grabbing live prey to eat it, and dogs biting people, then lots of people would probably fear dogs.
Ignorance is sooo curable. All it takes is knowledge and the willingness of the ignorant to listen.
Most people who learn about snakes, find out that they aren't so bad, and end up facinated by them. Most small children I meet LIKE snakes. It's the older ones that don't. I don't think humans are born fearing snakes, but taught it by actions of the adults around them.
We can only educate the ignorant, and keep our pets safe in the meantime.

I think part of it is how you are raised. Our youngest son, who likely can't remember a time we didn't have snakes, considers snakes about as common as most kids consider a pet cat or dog. For Mikey, it's just no big deal so early conditioning is likely a big part of it.

For others, it's about religion. A bit odd really as I always ask them if they also hate women and apples LOL.

Snakes are in the end though very "alien" to the human experience. We humans like what we know, what we understand and what will interact and give something back to us...we are a very self-involved race after all. Since a snake won't run to us, begging for attention or warm our lap and purr, I think it's hard for some folks to understand why anyone would make a "pet" of one.

When we did the school education visit last year we had a lot of fun de-bunking a lot of the myths that even kindergarten kids already had. By the end of the visit every single child was interested, asking questions and willing to touch the snakes. Sadly most of them likely went home to parents that shuddered at the mention of snakes at school but maybe a few of them did learn something.

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Originally Posted by panthercz

Instinctual: Lets face it, many animals are leery of snakes so why not humans?

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I'm not sure fear of snakes is instinctual. Lots of times little kids are the most curious and fascinated by snakes, while their parents are usually the "urghh.. *shudder*" culprits... which leads me to believe it's a learned behavior...

I've helped several people that I know get over the fear, or at least get to the point where they could see a snake on TV and not freak out. I even got a friend to the point where she could touch a snake and not get creeped out. And what led to that was she was in her backyard with her daughter who was 3 years old and she saw a snake. She left her daughter and ran in the house. She eventually came back to the door and got her daughter to come to her. The snake which she describe as about 2 feet long and black was nowhere near her or her daughter...... She felt so horrible about it, she was calling herself a bad mother and everything. So I voluntered to help her get over her fear. And it took about 6 months to get her to the point where she could touch a snake. So now if I meet someone who is extremly afraid I'll try to help them have a better understanding of snakes and answer the questions they throw at me...which can cause the fear level to go down some.

One of the things that I've learned from observing my wife's cousin (7 years old at the time), is that Paola only had a fear of snakes when her mother was around. To me she was learning to fear snakes maybe even subconciously from her mother. And it wasn't even anything that her mother said.... it was just her reaction that made Paola fear snakes. And once her mom got kinda use to the fact that we had snakes and stop freaking out when she saw them, Paola was more calm around them even with her mother with her.

Pic of my wifes cousin and one of my Ball Pythons

http://www.daplayhouse.com/Web/Paola.JPG

Ok here is my two cents.

People most people that are afraid of snakes are ignorant about them. Their fear is based on misinformation from years of hearsay and a media presented ideal of them.

You take a group of 5-8 years olds and bring in the local "snake man" to their school. Every kid will want to touch and pet the animals. Take the same kids 10 years later and I bet a year pay that there will be 2% of them that will even be willing to be in the same room with the same animal. What happened they watched T.V and listened to old wives tales. Their fear is in fact not their own but their mom and dads that they have adopted and reinforced with the media and Va' la' you have an instant phobia.

If I've said it once I've said it 900 times. This is why as reptile keepers education is our greatest tool. It is because of a lack of education that our hobby faces every day, somewhere, on some level a misinformed or ignorant opposition. It is our job as responsible herpetoculturist regardless of your level to be knowledgeable enough about our hobby to intelligently be able to offer the facts about our belove pets. We might never see a day when reptiles replace the family dog. But we may see the day that we no longer have to stand before our local law makers and try to present 20 years of positive experience in a 5 minute deposition just to be able to continue to keep and have a daily personal relationship with these amazing animals.

Please ignorance is the seed of fear and people fear what they don't understand.

So far I've been able to get three people over they're fear (at their pace). My grandmother was terrified of snakes she wouldn't look at my corn but when I got my ball she started asking me to bring it over (she lived nextdoor) and after the 3rd visit she started holding her. My brother would stare at the bp and after a while he asked to hold her. And one of my friends that I worked with would bout have a panic attack when he saw a reptile of any kind, but his little girl love ALL alimals. So he started asking questions and one day when he came over and I had my bp out he asked if he could pet her which led to him holding her. A year later he got his first reptile a cresty and he loves it like a child. So far all the people who I've met that are scared of snakes are either misinformed, uneducated on snakes, or its a religious thing (they say the bible says we're sopposed to fear snakes.) Adam & Eve. But I give kudos to any one who is able to get over they're fears what ever they might be, I'm still working on spiders.:P

I believe among all the people who have fears of snake, phobia is very rare.

The majority of people in my opinion fear snake because of misinformation and misconception, in that case I try to educate them on the subject.

A phobia is an irrational fear that is very hard to fight, and often the result of a traumatic experience. (Until 2 years ago I was experiencing a real phobia of water (pool,lake,sea) and even though I knew it was irrational I could not help it, to the point I was physically sick)

I think people who have a phobia of snakes can overcome it however it takes time and it is not easy and you have to keep in mind it is an irrational.

Here are my 2 cents...i agree people just don't understand snakes

for example my mom and grandma hate them because of the bible aka the devil...but i have a little 5 year old and 7 year old brother and at first they were very hesitant to pet it because my dear mother told them that it'd bite them and it was poisonous...ignorance...slowly they started petting sanchez more and more and now i just hand sanchez to them and they play with him like it's nothing they're very gentle with him and know how to treat him. my mom holds him as well :D

also people that are afraid of snakes wont educate themselves because to them it's something that's not important and that they won't ever need to know...it's just like a conversation i had with one of my friends last night, i absolutley love exotic cars and my friend doesn't know that much about them...we were talkin about if we were millionaires how much would we spend on a car and he said no more than $50,000 and i said atleast $300,000 for a lamborghini :) ...this is just an example...i care for cars he doesn't so he doesn't take the time to learn about them...same with snakes, people that don't care for them wont learn about them they're not going to go out of their way to study about snakes and learn which ones are harmful and which ones aren't so they just put them all in the same category

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Originally Posted by wolfy-hound

They think it will bite you, turn on you, eat you while you sleep... all the media images, and myths they've always been told.

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That is exactly what my mother told me... My mother loves snake but she won't have one in her house. She said they are sneaky and can't trust them. That they could "eat you while you sleep". And I tell her how can my big ol' head fit in that cute little mouth.. Anyways, she always finds a way for a snake not to come to her house.

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Originally Posted by KYSHA

That is exactly what my mother told me... My mother loves snake but she won't have one in her house. She said they are sneaky and can't trust them. That they could "eat you while you sleep". And I tell her how can my big ol' head fit in that cute little mouth.. Anyways, she always finds a way for a snake not to come to her house.

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That's interesting. The whole reasoning behind my parents' not allowing me to have snakes in the house is fear of the snakes getting out of their cages. Neither of them like snakes overly much, but they have a decent respect for them and have pretty much accepted the fact that this wayword daughter is not going to change :)

What I find the most interesting, however, is the fact that my mother allows me to keep a large six foot constrictor in the house, but not the tiny bull snake. Reasoning: "If she gets out, I feel like I'll be able to see her or find her." Not that my mother would ever go looking for the snake... but, at least she would know what area to avoid. If the bull snake got out, he could hide anywhere... and thus my mother would probably have to move out of the house. Along this line of reasoning, it seems that the fear of snakes---in connection with my parents, at least---seems to be more of a fear of the unknown. If she can see where Kinky is, can see the big girl in the tub and know that she's not going anywhere, she's totally fine with it.

Going along with this, I find it interesting that more people are afraid of the small, fast snakes than they are the big constrictors. Again, my parents much prefer having Kinky crawl around the yard rather than the little bull snake when Kinkers could do quite a bit more damage than Tris who would barely leave a mark on your finger-tip.

Perhaps it's an element of control? I think if people can see and touch something, they feel they have a certain power over it. Seeing a six foot snake crawling along slowly in the grass, you feel like, if you had to, you could either get away or have the time to protect yourself. You are in control of your surroundings and what happens to you. Something that's small and quick, however---that's not mammalian, but eats, hears, smells, even MOVES differently---is something that you cannot control. If it's small enough, you can't see it until it's right up on you, and then it moves so fast it's startling. Few mammals move as fast as a snake striking---and, let's face it: as creatures that used to be prey, humans REALLY don't like to be startled. Things that startle them are not under their ability to control.

Personally, I steer clear of small, fast snakes in the wild. They're TOO fast... they startle me, and I don't like it ;)

You know why they are so scared of the slow ones.... because they know that these snakes can move really really fast. :D

i could type the same thing i think about ophidiophobic people but it'd be too long. i'll just sum it up to the point.....

i hate ophidiophobic people, period.

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Originally Posted by Snakeman

i could type the same thing i think about ophidiophobic people but it'd be too long. i'll just sum it up to the point.....

i hate ophidiophobic people, period.

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How can you hate them? How can you hate people that honestly have a fear of snakes? That would be like me saying that I love to fly and hate people that are afraid of heights.

It's the people that are ignorant---that do foolish, careless things---that you need to fight. Someone that has an honest fear of snakes... can't really help themselves.

Fight ignorance!!! :D

on the whole bible thing, it doesn't say the devil is a snake. It said he took the form of a snake. (Because its one hell of a paint job duh!!!) But still, that's what happens with the biblical text. It gets warped in its interpretations.

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Originally Posted by ladywhipple02

How can you hate them? How can you hate people that honestly have a fear of snakes? That would be like me saying that I love to fly and hate people that are afraid of heights.

It's the people that are ignorant---that do foolish, careless things---that you need to fight. Someone that has an honest fear of snakes... can't really help themselves.

Fight ignorance!!! :D

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I understand what he meant, it gets very hard when they push their opinions on you over and over and over. Ok, I get it, you don't like snakes... blah blah blah...

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

I understand what he meant, it gets very hard when they push their opinions on you over and over and over. Ok, I get it, you don't like snakes... blah blah blah...

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But I think you're talking about two different people. There are people that are genuinely afraid of snakes. They can't explain why... they may even learn about them to try to get over their fears. These are true phobics, and you shouldn't hate them.

But then there are people who don't take the time to learn anything, merely spout what they've been told or picked up along the way... IGNORANT people. They are NOT phobics. And yes, I too get irritated by these people. But the only thing you can do is keep right on trying to educate.

I guess I don't really hate anyone. LOL.

I think its pretty resonable to not like someone who hates your passion.

Okay, I agree... like I said, I don't really like people that spout off and tell me I'm wrong when they really don't know what they're talking about.

But we're still talking about two different things. You can be afraid of something and not hate it. As I said, there are actually many true phobics that TRY to learn about snakes so they can get over their phobia.

The true phobics are not the ones to dislike. They are the ones that we need to reach out to and help! It's the ignorant people who have no true phobia---they're fair game to dislike, especially when they push their beliefs on you with no solid facts or grounding. And even then, I far more prefer to try and educate---even if they're not so willing to listen.


I'm not trying to argue with you, hun. I'm just trying to say it's not really fair to push something on someone---or hate or dislike them---that honestly has a true fear of something.

I agree with you Ladywhipple; I think phobia is a kind of sickness almost, rather than a way of thinking you can change. My grandmother, for example, is absolutely terrified of mice and rodents. She can't even look at a picture of one without getting nervous. That really has nothing to do with ignorance.

After working in a pet store for a few summers, I have spoken to lots and lots of ignorant people, mainly about snakes, reptiles, inverts, and fish. At first I would get really frustrated and even spiteful to them. I now realize that you really can't hate people just for being misinformed, since it's honestly not their fault. If someone has no experience or knowledge whatsoever about snakes, for instance, and comes into a pet store with hardly a few cents worth of correct information about them, well, then, they're going to sound like fools to someone who's an ophidiophile. There's no getting around that.

The people who REALLY bug the crap out of me are the ones who simply REFUSE to learn or to correct their own notions... not because of a phobia, but because they are stubborn.

On the flip side, it always brightens my day to see a snake-nervous person let their curiosity get the better of them. :) :snake:

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Originally Posted by icygirl

The people who REALLY bug the crap out of me are the ones who simply REFUSE to learn or to correct their own notions... not because of a phobia, but because they are stubborn.

On the flip side, it always brightens my day to see a snake-nervous person let their curiosity get the better of them. :) :snake:

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It's always best to keep an open mind about anything! :)

THAT is what we in this hobby need to constantly fight... we fight ignorance with education. There are ALWAYS going to be people who are too stubborn to learn---and they are the true fools of the world because they will never learn anything new and live a stagnant, unhappy life.

But there are also going to always be people who listen. And, even if they have a true phobia of something, at least they're growing and changing within themselves.

a lot of my friends were scared of my snakes and thought i was some crazy person for a while, but as soon as i got them to interact with them most of my friends, guy or gal, lost some if not all fear. it all just depends on contact with snakes throughout a persons lifetime and knowledge cuz a lot of people will ask how big my bp's "fangs" are :laughing:

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Originally Posted by ladywhipple02

How can you hate them? How can you hate people that honestly have a fear of snakes? That would be like me saying that I love to fly and hate people that are afraid of heights.

It's the people that are ignorant---that do foolish, careless things---that you need to fight. Someone that has an honest fear of snakes... can't really help themselves.

Fight ignorance!!! :D

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yeah i understand. some people i know are afraid of them but they dont know why. most people i know are afraid of them because they "look vicious" or "they squeeze you to death" and stupid things like that. i was friends at one point with a few people(mainly girls) who not go anywhere near my snakes and all they did was talk crap about them. eventually i did stop talking to them since i couldnt stand their ignorant talk.

Can I just say that this is an awesome discussion? Kudos! :D

The Bible never says anything about having to fear snakes......

John

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Originally Posted by ladywhipple02

Can I just say that this is an awesome discussion? Kudos! :D

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No joke. It's a very interesting read!
As for my own comment on the topic, I love almost any kind of animal. I'm not so fond of the 8 legged critters, but strangely scorpions are ok. I come from a family where if the animal is not 4-legged, and does not have fur, it's not going to be in the house ( and not 'socially acceptable" to other family members). Basically my dad and I were the only two in the entire family who would even go into the herp house at the Zoo here. I've always had a natural attraction to lizards and snakes really. I don't think that I've ever been afraid of any snake in my life, and growing up in Oklahoma where there are plenty different species of venemous snakes, I was taught to just "stay away" and leave them alone if I encountered one. Ever since I brought my first BP home, I've noticed a drastic change in the reactions that my family members have towards snakes. This is most apperant in my grandmother. My grandmother had a phobia of snakes brought on my ignorance, and she would never even step foot into our house for about a month, but after talking about my BP, looking at her, and when she finally was able to pet Isis, she will now willngly hold her, and even took the "put the snake around your neck and look nervous as hell" picture the last time I was home with the critters.
And to top it all off, I've gotten my cousin started on herps with his first pair of leo's and they (and he) are happy as clams :sunny:

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Originally Posted by SerpentesCiconii

The Bible never says anything about having to fear snakes......

John

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I don't think the op ment that the bible tells people to hate snakes. I think that the point was that people misinterpret the bible's context of when satan took the serpents form, that all snakes harbor the 'spirit of the devil' in them, or whatever people want to think. I interpret that story a little differently, but if you want to hear it, either start a new thread or contact me via PM.

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Originally Posted by icygirl

I'm not sure fear of snakes is instinctual. Lots of times little kids are the most curious and fascinated by snakes, while their parents are usually the "urghh.. *shudder*" culprits... which leads me to believe it's a learned behavior...

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I agree totally. It is a learned behavior. Kids are always curious about them and are way more willing to touch them than adults. I have freinds that won't come near them and their kids always want to hold them. I bought my first snake when my son was one and he will be 15 in December. He can't remember not ever having snakes. My daughters are huge snake fans and hold them all the time. If you get them young enough they won't develop any phobia. As long as they don't get tagged one day.

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Originally Posted by Purrrfect9

I don't think the op ment that the bible tells people to hate snakes. I think that the point was that people misinterpret the bible's context of when satan took the serpents form, that all snakes harbor the 'spirit of the devil' in them, or whatever people want to think. I interpret that story a little differently, but if you want to hear it, either start a new thread or contact me via PM.

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The main two points I have about the Adam and Eve story, of where people get the snake-evil connection, are as follows:
1. It never actually says that the snake offering the apple is Satan. It just says something along the lines of, the snake was the most sly of the creatures and ate the apple from the tree of knowledge, and then offered to Eve. Hence, snakes are associated with being wily or tricky.
2. God eventually punishes the snake by taking away its legs. Hence snakes are associated with something punished by God and therefore associated with the devil.

IMO, these stories should be interpreted for their overall message and not taken 100% seriously. Whenever any religious text is taking 100% literally, there are always problems. I mean, if you believe in evolution, you can't possibly take #2 seriously!

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Originally Posted by icygirl

I mean, if you believe in evolution, you can't possibly take #2 seriously!

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of course....NOT!!!

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Originally Posted by icygirl

I'd like to survey the crowd around here about what everyone thinks about ophidiophobia (fear of snakes), either minor or major cases.

I always ask myself, why the huge number of ophidiophobes out there? Every non-snake-oriented person I have ever met, when I talk about my BP, first thing I get asked is: "Does he bite?" I like to give the answer, "Nearly any animal will bite when provoked enough." But dogs and cats can bite and are certainly capable of lots of damage, and yet snakes get the worse rep for it.

Some people would point to the venom factor, that some snakes are deadly, but the fact is that snake phobic people exist even in areas where there is little to no danger of venomous snakes in the area, or even many wild snakes period.

I am starting to form a hypothesis that it has to do with snakes in our culture as symbols. It all started with the Adam and Eve story, as we all know. But it continues with the media and entertainment industry. E.g.,
-movies like Anaconda, Snakes on a Plane, etc. etc.
-the constant stream of shows on Discovery/Animal Planet about "snake wrangler" types and people who go after the most venomous snakes and almost get their heads bitten off when they get right up in the snake's territory and face. (Well, duh!)
-lack of information available that most snakes are not venomous

What does everyone have to say on this topic?

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It's the same thing as arachnophobia (yes, I'm a spider person). While I think that perhaps *some* people's fears of snakes *might* stem from the Genesis story, I think that is an extremely small percentage. The vast majority of people with phobias such as this and arachnophobia have the fear for one of a few reasons:
1. They had a traumatic experience with said "creature" at some point in time during their life, most commonly during childhood. (this is the rarest form of phobias such as these)
2. They are *taught* to fear them by their elders, peers, parents, etc. from an early age. (this is the most common reason for phobias of this type)
3. They don't know a flippin' thing about the animal(s) and blindly (and stupidly) believe the BS myths that people spread. (this too is one of the most common reasons for phobias of this type).

Like I said, it's absolutely no different than people who fear spiders. They ALL fall under one of the above 3 categories.

As far as how do I feel about them... well, it depends on the person. For example, a friend of mine and I were at a mutual friend's house a couple weeks ago and her 4 year old nephew was with her. Well Karen has this huge fear of... well, just about everything, including snakes and her nephew was teasing her with a rubber snake. She sat there and started telling him how awful and horrible snakes were, with the whole "EWWWW" thing going on. Needless to say, I jumped her butt for it and jumped down her throat for "teaching" her nephew to hate something that he, nor she know absolutely nothing about and that by doing so, she's disrespecting not only her nephew but everyone else as well. Then I offered to bring her nephew to my house to see my snakes... Karen just about crapped her pants. LOL

If adults *want* to look like ignorant idiots and fear something like a snake or a tarantula, that's their prerogative... I don't care if they make fools out of themselves in front of me by screaming, shuddering and dancing around like a drunkard and babbling uneducated nonsense... go right ahead while I laugh at you but DON'T TEACH YOUR KIDS YOUR STUPIDITY AND IGNORANCE!!!!!
That's what pisses me off.
:)

yeah, not to mention that arachnophobia is A LOT more common than ophidiophobia.

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Originally Posted by icygirl

The main two points I have about the Adam and Eve story, of where people get the snake-evil connection, are as follows:
1. It never actually says that the snake offering the apple is Satan. It just says something along the lines of, the snake was the most sly of the creatures and ate the apple from the tree of knowledge, and then offered to Eve. Hence, snakes are associated with being wily or tricky.
2. God eventually punishes the snake by taking away its legs. Hence snakes are associated with something punished by God and therefore associated with the devil.

IMO, these stories should be interpreted for their overall message and not taken 100% seriously. Whenever any religious text is taking 100% literally, there are always problems. I mean, if you believe in evolution, you can't possibly take #2 seriously!

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This is probably totally off topic but.... :)
1. The bible does not say the "fruit" is an apple.
2. The bible DOES say that the "serpent" is Satan... in many, many places.
3. The bible does not ever say that the "serpent" ate anything from the Tree of the knowledge of good and evil. What it *does* say is that Lucifer, an angel who got booted out of Heaven, took the form of a serpent and "tempted" Eve, assuring her that if she ate the fruit she surely would not die. Satan already had the knowledge of good and evil.... he was an angel, thus, no eating of fruit was necessary.

I agree, people should not take the fact that God "punished" the serpent by cursing it to have to "crawl on your belly and eat the dust of the earth for all your days" as something that God consideres evil and condemed for all snakes (serpents). Heck, if that were the case then people would have to consider worms and legless lizzards "evil" as well because, although worms are not "serpents" they too must "crawl on their bellies".

In my personal, God believing, biblical opinion, if God hated them, snakes/serpents, then He would have TOLD man that they were an abomination unto Him, like He did with pigs and various acts that people engage in but has never done so with snakes. As a matter of fact, there are other places in the bible where God uses snakes in particular to prove His point(s). ;) Does the bible tend to depict snakes as "evil", no. Does the bible tend to depict snakes as "scary", yes. The bible actually teaches that snakes are something to be wary of and to....... *respect*.
The religious world's teaching that the bible says that snakes are "evil" is a slant on a misinterpretation for the purpose of gaining control over others. Kind of like the teaching that birth control will send you straight to Hell; it is a misrepresentation based on a particular point of view and religious agenda/dogma to obtain and maintain a level of control over the minds and actions of followers based on "blind faith" in a particular belief and/or belief system without reading and discovering for ones self what may or may not be correct.

Now back to our regularly scheduled thread. :D

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Originally Posted by Snakeman

yeah, not to mention that arachnophobia is A LOT more common than ophidiophobia.

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Indeed!
And isn't it ironic.... spiders are MUCH smaller than even the smallest snake. :rolleyes: and that a seemingly harmless (non venomous) snake can do more harm to a person than a tarantula.
Now true spiders on the other hand, that's a different story, but true spiders and tarantulas are quite different.

I think people fear spiders because we consider insects as ugly or scary looking and large spiders are probably one of the scariest. This is a learned behavior which is handed down by parents and/or society. For example I watch my 3 year old grandson and his Mom is a chicken and afraid of bugs. So he sees her fear and he is also afraid of bugs, but when I go to feed my beardies I have a tub full of crickets when I have him help me he has no fear because I have no fear and thinks its fun to feed the lizards.

Now as far as the bible I believe the stories are symbolic and many people take too much time analyzing the minute deatails then learning the lesson that these stories symbolize. Creation and Genesis is a great example of this. The world was not formed in 7 days, but that is irrelevant, the authors had to give a reference to people that had NO mathematical knowledge whatsoever. So how to you tell someone that the big bang theory and billions of years of evolution and now there is a galaxy and universe, etc... You would confuse your audience with details that are unimporatnt instead they symbolically put it in a form that everyone can grasp and get to the important parts.

In my opinion science and the bible are not at odds only the closed minded people that interpret it are. I myself enjoy studiing all religions and find they also are not at odds. If you really look at them the all they repeat the same themes and lessons in different ways. It is the self righteous people that want their religion to be right and all the others to be wrong that look for the conflicts not the similarities.

For many years and still today many people have no knowledge of snakes and cannot tell the difference between a harmless snake and a dangerous venomous snake. Therefore most people learned to fear all snakes because a bite from a venomous is a painful death sentence. This is why snakes have been feared and associated with evil. Watching someone suffer and die from venom poisoning must be very traumatic and this is how and why the symbolism in the bible was used because people could related to that trauma. I have co workers from central america that think I'm a wack job for having snakes because they were raised to fear all snakes because they don't know a safe from dangerous one and so if they fear and avoid all snakes they are safe.

It makes sense, you just have too look at the other points of veiw to understand this LEARNED behavior.

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Originally Posted by Shadowspider

This is probably totally off topic but.... :)
1. The bible does not say the "fruit" is an apple.
2. The bible DOES say that the "serpent" is Satan... in many, many places.
3. The bible does not ever say that the "serpent" ate anything from the Tree of the knowledge of good and evil. What it *does* say is that Lucifer, an angel who got booted out of Heaven, took the form of a serpent and "tempted" Eve, assuring her that if she ate the fruit she surely would not die. Satan already had the knowledge of good and evil.... he was an angel, thus, no eating of fruit was necessary.

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I got my knowledge of this story from studying it in a comp-lit class, hahah. I am also only taking from the Genesis story, and not anything else, and in that particular story it doesn't actually say that it is Satan. But I haven't studied the New Testament so idk maybe it says more about it in there... so yeah :)

Also... one thing that pisses me off about Harry Potter (ok, I might get attacked for this) is that snakes are CONSTANTLY equated with evil. Why couldn't Rowling have a friendly snake in there, or something!?? Millions of people have read it or watched the movies, and there's that subliminal message again to fear snakes. :(

In my experience, most folks who are scared of snakes are only scared because

A: Snakes are strange and unfamiliar to them or

B: Someone was being a moron and deliberately scared them with one.

Those are the only two real reasons I've ever encountered. It's pretty much always either a bad experience that could have been avoidable or just innocent ignorance that can be corrected if a person is willing to listen.

Mythology, Symbolism, etc is fascinating, but when people say that's why they're scared of snakes it's really just an excuse. A lot of folks use the Bible or other scripture to excuse their own bad behavior, prejudices, etc by picking and choosing from it what's convienient rather then what helps them progress and be better people. Just my opinion there.

btw, has anyone here seen Lemony Snicket's Series of Unfortunate Events? I've never seen a children's series/movie treat snakes so lovingly the whole Reptile Room thing was delightful.

Up until about 3 months ago, i was one. I would start to shake if one even came near me! But when my boyfriend's new BP wouldn't eat for him he convinced me to try. That was the beginning of the end of my fear. We now have 16 BPs and a few other herps.

When i was about 5 or 6 (living in Alberta, Canada) I was on a farm running through a pasture and almost stepped on a rattler. I think that was where my fear started.

My son was introduced to snakes when i was still petrified of them. I told him mommy had a bad experience with snakes when i was little but he could pet them and hold them if he wanted to. Our 8 year old normal BP is now 'his', and he absolutely adores her!

Gist of it is, i think fears of snakes is mostly learned or from a bad experience. I also think thats a bloody shame as they are beautiful and somewhat intoxicating creatures.

Wow! 16 snakes in 3 months? You must have fun with all that quarantine! LOL

A big factor in the fearing of snakes, is that your primeval brain is programmed so that you will step away from or be very wary of snakes. Its a natural instinct and one we should be thankful of. Its what helps us decide when we are in a fight or flght situation. The evolved part of our brains helps us to rationalize and not freak out at the sight of every snake we see. This is were the phobias kick in with certain people, there brains switch off, the panic sets in and there's no reassurance to be offered that can settle them down.

Of course the media and such don't help to dispel the myths about these wonderful creatures but what can you do apart from educate.

The whole about the bible having an effect on the rep of snakes is probably true but i find the bible laughable (i haver read it twice). As for kids always going forward to hold or touch a snake, what more do you expect. Mothers in the wild have to train their kids what dangerous and whats safe. Kids will play with anything no matter what the risk. That wee part of their brain hasn't developed yet that tells them of possible danger.

Some people are scared of snakes, some aren't. Its only natural

I think people are mostly afraid of snakes because it is something unfamiliar to them. Also, some people think they are supposed to be afraid of them. Snakes are dangerous, snakes are a pest, they are evil, slimey, creepy. The majority of people who are afraid of snakes are women. My mother is uncomfortable around them, my sister is terrified and a lot of my friends won't go near a snake. How many times have you ever seen a cartoon with a mouse that the wife didn't get on a chair and shreak when the mouse came in? Its society and the media. The only time of you hear of snakes on tv is someone got bit, or constricted, or swallowed. So naturally people tend to be uneasy or afraid of something with so much negative press.

My sister tried to convince me that ball pythons, anacondas, and corn snakes were venemous. :confused: I was like "Hold on there sister. There is soooooo much you don't know about snakes." A lot of it is no education. If someone would take the time, get up a little courage and actually touch or hold a snake, I think their respect for the snake would increase as they see that snakes are not out to get them. They are not slimey or gross. They are just like any other animal out there, they just do things a little differently.

Okay i had to post.. :) In the bible it also says (its in mark not word for word) its about if you beleive in the lord and jesus the faithful will take up with serpents and will not be harmed.. With that right there i got my friend who believed snakes where from satan to pet my sweetest ball.. So just tell the bible ones to read mark and that if they are truly faithfull our friends the serpents are a time of the coming.. Or something like that my friend bought it hook line and sinker.. :P :D :P

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Originally Posted by poseyof5

Okay i had to post.. :) In the bible it also says (its in mark not word for word) its about if you beleive in the lord and jesus the faithful will take up with serpents and will not be harmed.. With that right there i got my friend who believed snakes where from satan to pet my sweetest ball.. So just tell the bible ones to read mark and that if they are truly faithfull our friends the serpents are a time of the coming.. Or something like that my friend bought it hook line and sinker.. :P :D :P

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People that use the Bible to shun snakes trip me out. In book of Luke Jesus cursed the fig tree :eek: who likes Fig Newtons, Jesus cast Legion into a herd of pigs :O I love bacon.

And technically God took the serpents legs after its betrayal so it was a lizard first LOL not a snake.

3:14 The Lord God said to the serpent,“Because you have done this,
cursed are you above all the wild beasts and all the living creatures of the field! On your belly you will crawl and dust you will eat 39 all the days of your life.

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

People that use the Bible to shun snakes trip me out. In book of Luke Jesus cursed the fig tree :eek: who likes Fig Newtons, Jesus cast Legion into a herd of pigs :O I love bacon.

And technically God took the serpents legs after its betrayal so it was a lizard first LOL not a snake.

3:14 The Lord God said to the serpent,“Because you have done this,
cursed are you above all the wild beasts and all the living creatures of the field! On your belly you will crawl and dust you will eat 39 all the days of your life.

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Actually it's simple to prove that snakes are badass, even in the eyes of God. Remember how God first exposed his power to the Egytians to free his people? He turned Moses' staff into, guess what, a snake. Boo yea baby.

What do I make of snake and rat phobic people? Playdoh works.. *squish*

There was a woman at the vet yesterday who was getting her neurotic Weimeraner ultrasounded(damned backyard breeders...), and when she walked by my rat Rom(who was there to get a Mitaban dip because his nasty breeder inbred him beyond all recognition and kept them in foul conditions), she said "IS that a rat?? EWWW..."

All I said was.. "Mine is registered and pedigreed, what about yours?"

Uppity, ignorant people.

I'm glad to hear experenced people talk about the fear factor of snakes. I am pretty new to snake keeping. I have a baby corn (Mazie) and perhaps the most beautiful BP (Lucy) in the world!!! I was too scared of my little tiny baby corn snake to even hold her in the store. It took me days to get up the courage to hold her. Needless to say, she has been very patient with me and has taught me that I had nothing to fear.

I think people's fear of snakes is deep, primitive, and healthy, similar to our fear of heights, or class five rapids. Courage is not acting without fear, it is acting in spite of it.