Rats.....I couldn't do it..

The other day my kids and I went on a hunt for a feeder rat for my BP. Up until now she has been eating mice, but is now big enough to go for weanling rats. So far she has only ever eaten live for me, which has not been a problem for me until now. Well, after going to a number of petstores, I was starting to realize that it is so much harder for me to find the correct size live rat because a lot of the family owned type petstores breed their own rats in the stores so if I go looking at the wrong time I could be out of luck. Well, after much searching, I remembered a small petstore very near my house, so on a whim, we went. They had the correct size rat their, I asked to look at them before I bought one so I could check out health, quality, etc. Well, it was getting late at that point, my son was hungry and tired, and anyone with a two year old knows what that can mean...LOL. So I asked for one, didn't check the box, paid and left. When we get home... there were two in the box...somehow they must have misunderstood me or something. Anyway, so my daughter wanted to hold one, and me being a softy, let her. So of course I held them too, and I think ya'll get the picture...

I am guessing, from doing research here and on other sites, that they are about 4 weeks old.... eyes are still all squinty. I am almost 100% sure that they are both females.

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...034_277963.JPG

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/files/6/1/1/4/016.JPG

The one is a beige hooded I believe, but am not sure of the other girl. She is all black with white feet and tip of tail, plus white on her belly. Here is a belly shot of her. Sorry it is a little blurry, my camera is not great for close ups, but ya'll still get the idea.
https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/files/6/1/1/4/017.JPG

Here is another that shows the white tips on the black female...sorry about the linty apron as a background...LOL.
https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/files/6/1/1/4/027.JPG

So know they are keepers, I just couldn't feed them off after having played with them. :P Haven't yet named them, but they are now a few days older than in the pics. Eyes are fully open now and they have been running around and exploring, grooming themselves and each other, overall just too darn cute and doing well. They are both living in a 10 gal aquarium together :) that I had used as a mouse tank to help fatten up mice before feeding them to my BP. Plan on going to a much bigger cage once I find one and they are slightly older. Man, feeding live has never bothered me with mice, but these guys are too cute. Arrrgh!!

I'm the same way, rats are just too cute for me to feed. All of mine will be mice eaters for life.

Very cute babies!

There is always one i try to hold back from the litters, only females though. They are adorable though. :D

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I am guessing, from doing research here and on other sites, that they are about 4 weeks old.... eyes are still all squinty.

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Cute however they are younger than 4 weeks old I would say close to 2+ weeks from the pics.

hey, imo those babys look to be about 2-3wks old. and they still need mommys milk, if not at least puppy milk. i have a litter that will be 3wks old tomorrow and still nurse ALOT. the babys started eating blocks around 16days and their eyes opened at 15dys.. those rats look like their eyes just opened not long ago. the brown one is what they call a berkshire and the other is a creme hooded by the looks of it. 10gal is alright for now but as you said to keep them as pets they need a much larger cage long term. google rat message boards, you can learn lots. i have. just watch out for those crazy rat people, just as there are crazy snake people ;) good luck with them!

Too cute for words! I love the light colored one. Simply adorable.

I agree, they are likely just 15 or 16 days old at the most. You'll need to bottle feed them every few hours for another 2 or 3 weeks. They are cute!

I haven't been on any of the rat forums, I have been staying away from those because of the whole snake keeping factor. I have been looking through alot of the threads on here and looking up links for info on them, as well as reading through a bunch of threads on here for rat info, and googling looking for any and all info that I can find. Is it too terrible to keep them? I have been giving them puppy milk, as well as some softer foods. They have been eating some canned cat food as well as some human baby food, I have seen them nibbling on some crumbled up peices of Mazuri block, and have also been giving them some peices of bread soaked in a little puppy milk. They have some little cloth pieces to curl up in in their tank which is in a warmer place in the house so they won't be cold. They have also been using the hides that I had in there for the mice that used to be in there off and on. Those pics were taken in Tues morning and so far they seem to be doing great. Their eyes no longer have their squinty look, and they seem to have lots of energy, they wander all over their tank and are very squirmy when we take them out for feeding or handling.
Is there anything else that maybe I missed that I should be doing for them? Has anyone else raised babies from this age then and had them do really well?
I spent most of tues. either researching info or running out to get stuff that I need for them, and really want to do the best for them as my daughter and I both think that they are absolutely adorable, and they have been really sweet .

good luck with them!

I'm glad I don't get like that, being the animal collector I am. When my 8 year old niece got tired of her pet mouse, my sister told her she had to give it away. Instead she came over and fed it to my Macklotts python, no sweat. I guess neither of us got that cuddly compassion for rodents gene.

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Originally Posted by PythonWallace

I'm glad I don't get like that, being the animal collector I am. When my 8 year old niece got tired of her pet mouse, my sister told her she had to give it away. Instead she came over and fed it to my Macklotts python, no sweat. I guess neither of us got that cuddly compassion for rodents gene.

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Similar story, my brother in law's ex wife has a BP, and their daughter had a gerbil. When she was about 3, the gerbil bit her. She didn't panic or even cry, she just walked over, opened the tank, and fed it to the snake. Circle of life, buddy...

The AFRMA has some really great articles on orphaned rat pups, i highly recommend reading it. They say to use kitten milk I believe. The rats are most likely siblings, so just something to keep in mind if they end up different sexes. If you want to know the sex, there is also a link on the same website. you can sex them pretty much from 5 days old. Even sooner if you know what to look for. In about a week they will be trying to run around their tank, and you can start handling them much more often. Great catch though! The black one looks just like my holdback male, luv em!
http://www.afrma.org/ <----------- check it out, you love it ;)

Here's another link for sexing rats.

http://www.ratz.co.uk/sexingrats.html

If they are the same sex they'll make lovely, life long cage buddies. If it turns out they are male and female you'll need to seperate them by around 5 weeks of age and then get them each a same gender cage friend (or trade one to a good pet store for the "right" gender).

I guess I'm just odd. I love rats, consider them the best rodent as far as a pet rodent goes, name all our breeders, etc. - yet it doesn't bother me one whit feeding off their offspring. We do make it a point to do very little handling of the rats being fed off. We also reinforce with all our children that certain rats get named and live their lives with us (we retire our old breeders and rarely feed them off) - other rats are created specifically for snake food.

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

We do make it a point to do very little handling of the rats being fed off. We also reinforce with all our children that certain rats get named and live their lives with us (we retire our old breeders and rarely feed them off) - other rats are created specifically for snake food.

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Thats hard to do. My daughters want to be involved with the upkeep of the rodents. They like to try and name them all. They understand that all but the breeders are for the snakes. But, I do have to make promises like..."I'll leave that one for last".

It is hard Jason and how you handle it really depends on the age of the child and that child's own personality. Some kids get so emotional about the process it's not fair for them to have much involvement in the whole feeding process. We didn't allow our youngest to view a live feeding until he was 5 as we weren't sure he would understand it or would then view the snake as a "mean" creature for killing the rat. For all our worry, the kids was totally okay with it...LOL.

We do explain to the kids and their friends that as people we have many food choices....salad, a steak, a bag of chips, a peanut butter sandwich but the snakes aren't made to eat all those things. Without a rat or mouse to eat the snake would starve and die. The rats are made for the snakes to eat, the snkes are made to eat the rats and that's how it's supposed to be. We also tell them that rats and mice make many, MANY babies each year. If the snakes don't eat those babies then eventually the rats and mice run out of food and room and then they die too. We assure them that the rats/mice do not suffer needlessly when the snake kills it.

It's amazing how after a very basic bit of common sense information given in a simple, straightforward non-emotional manner almost all the children I know are much more comfortable with the feeding process.

We also let our kids help us choose and name the future breeding rats so they can interact with those rats instead of the feeders. My six year old can take you through the rat colony and he'd likely say "that one is Casanova, that one is Violet, that one is Elvis...them ones over there...they are snake dinners". :)

Thanks for the responses and the links!!
I think that my problem was that I had never seen a baby rat before so of course after my daughter wanted to hold one I had to.. :) I guess these two are lucky that I am such a softy. I feel confident that the next time around I can keep the rodents as food mindset.

And I went back and looked at the links posted for sexing again. I just don't have the experience with rats to confidently say that they are both females, although that is what I believe them to be comparing them to the pictures. They are definatley the same sex though. So they will be lucky little cagemates for life.

As far as handling, when we keep a couple of mice around for my BP, we had never held those. But, they were also raised as feeders and weren't babies when we would get those, so since they were not used to human handling I was always afraid that they would bite my daughter or myself. And being bitten badly by a hamster when I was just slightly older than my daughter is (I still don't care for hamsters because of that) is definately NOT a fun thing, as I am sure that mice bites aren't fun either.

But these two are doing very well, running all around their tank, cuddling and trying to groom themselves and each other. Very cute!!

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It's amazing how after a very basic bit of common sense information given in a simple, straightforward non-emotional manner almost all the children I know are much more comfortable with the feeding process.

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This is very true. I have also explained the feeding process to my kids and they have been perfectly fine with it. I felt the need to explain this because I would keep the mice in a tank for awhile for my BP so I could definately see if they were healthy and well and also so I know that the mice would be well fed beforehand since my BP only takes live. And I was afraid that if the kids see mice in there one day and that one would be gone or it would be empty the next day that they may be a little upset from that. Plus, in keeping snakes, I feel that they should know all about them and not see them as scary or mean for eating mice/rats, but that is necessary for them to live and is what they do naturally. I don't want my kids growing up with the same ideas I see from other people, that snakes/reptiles are scary and that they shouldn't be kept as pets.

That's one of the reasons I feed mice. Rats are clean(and easily litterbox trained) and mice are dirty little boogers that bite. Hmm. I wonder which I want to feed off.. ;)

Is litterbox training really that easy? I have read about how to do it on some of the other sites, but was wondering if you or anyone else here has had any experience with that? When would you start training them? And what different types of bedding are best used for this? Also, if they are litterbox trained, will they not poop/pee on you while you are handling them? Sorry for all the questions, just wondering what people's experiences with this are.

I personally think it's a great thing for kids to understand a predator/prey dynamic and how the food chain works. So many kids nowadays think that a hamburger magically grows at McDonald's and haven't a single clue where milks comes from. I just did a farm tour with two grade 1 classes and was amazed that some of the kids didn't know that a cow made milk (most of them were also amazed when the cow took a dump or the baby chicken pooped on their hand!) Yes little Johnny everything poops! LOL

If I have any troubles with feeding off our baby rats it's actually when they are fuzzies. Their coat is so lovely then that even I have some problems with feeding them off LOL. I just remember that the snakes have to eat and heck there are always going to be more fuzzy rats in our house. :)

How are your baby rats doing?

At that age if they are at least eating solids or soft foods and defecating then they should make it, although their progress may be slower than usual.