WHAT is this horrid mess?!?

just checked in on the snakes and saw some splatter on the front of one of my girl's tubs. pulled it open to see what it pictured below. she had just shed and passed normal, solid feces and urates and then...this. is it a tapeworm or other parasite? i am totally freaked out... if this is a parasite, should i treat my entire collection once i have a positive id from my vet?

http://www.cookreptiles.com/photos/bp/grossness.jpg

woah.........................

:eek: nooooooooooo idea - vet time.

Looks like a tape worm to me, I didn't know bp's could get them though.

Anyway, as gross as it sounds scoop it up as much as possible and put it into a container or plastic bag. Put it in the fridge until you can take it into the vet with the snake. You probably already knew that but I would be in such shock I would have a brain fart and throw it away.

Please keep us updated.

Kristy

Actually I take that back. Look to see if it has segments in its body. Tapeworms can break off and still live. It looks more like goo to me now that I saw a tape worm.

Oh Em! I have no clue what that is, but I agree with collecting it and taking it to the vet!

oh ugh eeeg eeew. i'm not usually the squeamish type but this thing is totally freaking me out. lucky me--i have a vet appointment for a gecko tomorrow morning at 9am--hope they'll see two animals and a glob of goo at the same time. :(

Hi,


It definately doesn't look normal does it?:(

I'd go with your instincts and stick it in a ziplock in the fridge till I could get it and a stool sample to a vet for identification - though I think your spot on with tapeworm as I see broken segments which (if I remember basic biology) are how they distribute their eggs.

I guess the vet will know what their life cycle is and if theres any possibility of contamination - it's always possible its a rodent tapeworm that somehow survived the snakes digestive process?

Hope everything works out ok and keep us posted.:hug:

How is the girl growing and behaving in herself?



dr del

the string itself doesn't really seem segmented but there are a few little pieces of it that aren't attached to the main piece. it is really gooey and stretchy. it now resides ziplocked in my fridge (yum!).

the snake seems fine--eats great, sheds regularly, doesn't display any signs of distress or anything out of the ordinary. she's never had runny or loose stools before. she was on the thin side and had some belly rot when i got her, but that was quickly resolved. i've had her for almost a year.

snake snot?

Oh my Lord! I've never seen anything like that. I'm glad to hear she is acting normal. Please update us when you find out what that is. Good luck.

How big are they? They look like some sort of strongyle to me, like a roundworm or something. They don't look like pinworms, as those are pretty small.

tapes looks a little different than that i think...................that is some wierd stuff there.....keep us posted

looks like calamari....

Yewww Em I'd be freaking if I found that in an enclosure. Hope your vet can quickly ID that mess and set a course of treatment. Gross but interesting.

Yeah I'm in agreement, it doesn't look segmented to be a tapeworm. It definitely looks wormy to me, but hopefully the vet can at least take a quick peek tomorrow. It's definitely a little gross to look at, but at least it's not anything major to stress about.

I may be completely off on this but I was just thinking. I don't know if she has ever been bred or if Bp's retain sperm like geckos do.
Could it possibly be some sort of retained sperm from a recent breeding that came out when she relieved herself?

well, it's definitely not a tapeworm. Tapeworms are flat... or a roundworm, as a roundworm's body is very well defined and that seems much too gelatinous. I'm at a lost for what, if any kind of parasite it could be.. when you took it out, did it come out as a blob or was it a continuous strand? I hate to be the gross one here, but I know what it kinda LOOKS like, but I don't think that's what it is...

EDIT: Good job Kristy, you actually did beat me to it, if only by seconds...

I may be completely off here too, but could that have possibly been in the rat/mouse and when it was being digested it came out like regured or something.. just a thought. it is really gross though. keep us posted.

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Originally Posted by CntrlF8

well, it's definitely not a tapeworm. Tapeworms are flat... or a roundworm, as a roundworm's body is very well defined and that seems much too gelatinous. I'm at a lost for what, if any kind of parasite it could be.. when you took it out, did it come out as a blob or was it a continuous strand? I hate to be the gross one here, but I know what it kinda LOOKS like, but I don't think that's what it is...

EDIT: Good job Kristy, you actually did beat me to it, if only by seconds...

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LOL I was hoping someone else would mention it before I did.

it's not sperm as this female is young and has never been with a male. it doesn't have any really defined areas or anything that looks like a head or tail or anything. it is really gooey and stretchy but does kind of retain its shape--it doesn't smear. i don't know exactly how it came out--what you see in the picture is how i found it. it is about as thick as a piece of embroidery floss.

i just looked at it again now that it is cooled off in the fridge and parts of it do appear to have very small segments--not like a tapeworm but kind of like and earthworm and there is a bit of an indention down the center of it. there is more than one strand of it too.

I have heard of mucos coming out from stomach irritations. i don't know much about it (never happened to me) but thats what it kinda looks like.

when was the last time she ate? could it be from something that was contained for the last meal she at and then just regurgitated this afterit wouldn't digest.

shouldn't be regurge--she last ate about 2 weeks ago. she skipped the last feeding due to being in shed and was supposed to be fed tonight but now i'm holding off until we see the vet.

barf..

oh yuck... keep us posted!

I'm like everyone else, I've never seen anything like that. Please let us know what the vet says.

Whoa. My first thought on seeing the pic was also tapes. Sometimes they can be quite long and stringy looking, but I've never seen one quite like that.

You can put a sample of it on a slide and look at it under the microscope, if you have one. Tapeworm proglottids will look like bags of eggs.

Am I the only one dying to poke it with a toothpick?

Wow, Hope you get this all sorted out I am very curious to see what is wrong here.

Good luck! :(


Mike

Whoa. My first thought on seeing the pic was also tapes. Sometimes they can be quite long and stringy looking, but I've never seen one quite like that.

You can put a sample of it on a slide and look at it under the microscope, if you have one. Tapeworm proglottids will look like bags of eggs.

Am I the only one dying to poke it with a toothpick?




:8: :8: :8: OMG! Slarti....:O :O Tooooo funny! Thanks for making me snort water onto my monitor!

I was thinking strogyles too....too clear and not FLAT/thick enough to look like tapeworms.

I too am curious and wish to examine under a scope. (Sick, huh?) :lmao:

Ok heres something I have experience with :D:D

It is a tape worm. Me and Adam had to do some research on them when one of my CH girls did the same thing some months back. I had one of my girls treated and was told by my vet that

1: They are not caught from feeders. The worm that infest mammals is different than that which infest fish, turtles, and reptiles and are not inter species exchangeable.

2: They are not harmful to humans, just gross

3: They are transfered buy direct contact with feces that carries the parasite eggs. I.E housing animals in one tank and they get on each others poop.

4: These tape worms match their hosts metabolism so for them to present themselves in the feces means the snake has been infested for some time. (bet this was one of your best feeders, never missed a meal but never really gains any weight. Mine was)

5: QT till treatment is done

6: your vet will do a probe kind deal and remove as much of the worm as he can then give an oral wormer. You'll have two rounds of wormer and loads of pooping this gross snot looking stuff out. And one hungry snake when its done

I think I got it all Any specific questions I will try and help!!!!!

sounds like great fun! well, this girl came to me shipped in the same bag with 2 other snakes so i guess i can go ahead and treat them too--same source, same bag...yeah. what about the rest of my collection? these girls live in the same room and rack system as the rest of my snakes do at this point (got them almost a year ago). would it be adviseable to treat all the snakes or perhaps take a few random fecal samples in for testing?

in any case, we are off to the vet in a few minutes. hopefully he can advise.

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Originally Posted by mlededee

sounds like great fun! well, this girl came to me shipped in the same bag with 2 other snakes so i guess i can go ahead and treat them too--same source, same bag...yeah. what about the rest of my collection? these girls live in the same room and rack system as the rest of my snakes do at this point (got them almost a year ago). would it be adviseable to treat all the snakes or perhaps take a few random fecal samples in for testing?

in any case, we are off to the vet in a few minutes. hopefully he can advise.

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From what I was told the rest of your collection should be fine. It is passed by poop to snake contact, feeding in an infected poop covered tank ect. Some how the egg or a segment got in or around the snakes mouth. But if you want to take a couple of samples to be sure to calm your nerves.

I would have the other two treat with out a doubt. !!!

Best of luck let me know how it turns out. :D

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

1: They are not caught from feeders. The worm that infest mammals is different than that which infest fish, turtles, and reptiles and are not inter species exchangeable.

2: They are not harmful to humans, just gross

3: They are transfered buy direct contact with feces that carries the parasite eggs. I.E housing animals in one tank and they get on each others poop.

4: These tape worms match their hosts metabolism so for them to present themselves in the feces means the snake has been infested for some time. (bet this was one of your best feeders, never missed a meal but never really gains any weight. Mine was)

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This isn't quite accurate. The vast majority of tapeworms are required by their lifecycle to move from one species to another.

For example the common dog tapeworm passes through an insect (the flea) before it infects the dog.

In all the species I can find, none are directly transmissable between hosts of the same species.

An example of a single species that infects mammals, reptiles, amphibians, and crustaceans:

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SPIROMETRA MANSONOIDES

S. mansonoides more commonly infects cats and bobcats, but can also infect dogs and raccoons. Its life cycle and eggs are very similar to Diphyllobothrium. It is found in the southern United States in Florida and along the Gulf Coast.

What is the life cycle of S. mansonoides?

The adult worms, which are around 25 cm in length, are found in the small intestine of the definitive host. As with D. latum, eggs are discharged through a small 'uterine pore' in each segment.

After the eggs are passed, and become infective, they are eaten by the first intermediate hosts which are copepods, a type of freshwater crustacean. The S. mansonoides embryos develop into second stage larvae inside the copepods.

The copepods are eaten by birds, snakes, reptiles, amphibians, or rodents. The third stage S. mansonoides larvae develop in these second intermediate hosts. Definitive hosts become infected by eating the infected snakes, rodents, or other second intermediate host.

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It is not only logical, but extremely probable that ball pythons in the wild acquire tapeworms through prey. It is unlikely that those species of tapeworms are found in captive-bred prey sources.

;)

Well just passing on what I was told good to know. :D

great info people!!!

let us know how it turns out!!

okay, well back from the vet with less than happy results. :( the nasty thing in the photo is a tapeworm. the vet was rather impressed by it and told me that it is quite uncommon that snakes actually expel a tapeworm like that and that it had to have been caused by something else or some other irritation.

so onto the fecal, which confirmed the tapeworm and also strongyloides. i got to view both under the microscope (i love my vet). then he showed me the heavy infestation of coccidia on the slide. COCCIDIA! (so now i'm flaming mad.) he said that the coccidia would have caused irritation to the tapeworm causing it to come out like it did and that he was concerned by the large number of them present in the fecal sample.

the vet wanted to know where i got the snake and if it was from a place that buys wholesale and resells wild caught or large numbers of snakes... well, unfortunately yes she did. the snake came from ed clark along with several others in a trade deal i did with him about a year ago. at the time i was not aware that he resold or did wholesaling and was told that he produced these snakes himself (maybe he did, who knows?). when talking to me about his snakes he said, "all my stuff is as clean as you will find," and at the time i had no reason not to believe him. i never had a fecal done on the snakes i received from him as i trusted him. i have had several fecals done on other snakes since then, all of which were clean. the vet said that since i practice good husbandry and don't share prey items or house snakes together that my other snakes should be okay, however, i will be taking random fecal samples in for testing for the next few weeks as i can get them.

i got panacur for the tapeworms and strongyloides and albon for the coccidia and will be treating all of the snakes that came from ed. if any of the other fecals test positive those snakes will receive the same treatment regimen.

let this be a lesson to us all, to be extremely picky about the source of our animals and to have fecals done no matter how much you trust(ed) the source. these girls all eat great but are on the small side for their age and now i know why. i feel like i have neglected them for not having found this and treated them sooner. be careful, be aware, and be responsible for your animals' welfare!

Wow... :omg:

atleast you know the cause and the course of treatment from here on out! Hope those worms decide to take off pretty soon and the treatment goes as planned!

Em,

While it may seem extreme to some, I would post this on the BOI. Those girls have obviously had this condition for some time to be that infested. You don't necessarily have to make a 'bad guy' thread, but it might be nice to get the information out there... just so people are aware.

Have you checked in with Ed about it??? I'd be curious to see what he has to say.

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Originally Posted by ladywhipple02

Have you checked in with Ed about it??? I'd be curious to see what he has to say.

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i don't think i'm going to contact ed. this is an issue with snakes that came from him having parasites and nothing more, but in the not so recent past we clashed on some issues and i tend to think that he would just twist this around into some sort of personal thing. i am resolving the problem and only wish to warn others of the issue in case they might be affected as well.

*EDIT: sorry, i meant to say, not so DISTANT past.

i'm sorry you had to go through something like this, and i hope everything works out for you. but i think it does jar some people into thinking about how some breeders keep there animals. another reason to make sure you trust the breeder 110%.

Just curious, but what do you think the chances of parasite transfer between animals who share a divided tub would be?

i would imagine it to be considerably high, since the feces and urine could pass between sides of the tub. if i had a snake with parasites in a split tub i would separate the snakes into individual enclosures and have the second snake tested asap.

There would be quite a good chance of transmission if two snakes shared a tub, even with the divider. That divider isn't air tight and fecal matter can easily seep under.

Sorry about the findings, Emily. I hope they respond well to treatment and you can start seeing some good growth :) Can't believe they have 3 types of parasites though, wow... Must have been some pretty unsanitary conditions they were in before they came to you. They have a great chance with you though, you're a good snakie momma.

so i guess ed wasnt as trustworthy as we all thought?

Em,

I've noticed that Ed has been, shall we say, confrontational on other forums. It's interesting to me how someone can become so defensive over simple questions, and that usually raises a red flag to me.

I didn't realize you two had had some differences... guess I missed it when I was away from the forums. :oops: Understandable that you wouldn't want to contact him.

At least now your girls will start growing as they should... they have a proper momma!

You can add this to the list of sketchy things Ed has done... About a month ago I bought 2 07 babies from him and the lesser he sent me was not the one I had picked out... not only was it not the lesser I wanted it was also a MALE when I was told it was a female... the same exact pic he sent me of the "lesser female" was on kingsnake the next week as a lesser male... This now has me sketched out about the babies I got from him.

I'm now real curious to know if my snakes are the right sexes... Ive seen examples of how to pop(step by step picture instructions on the web) but have never seen it done. My vet will not probe small snakes bc he has gotten complaints before in the past that he "hurt someones snake"... Theres a thread going under "general BP's" on popping... I dont want to Hijack this thread so can anyone post some insight over there? Thanks all

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Originally Posted by JoshJP7

You can add this to the list of sketchy things Ed has done... About a month ago I bought 2 07 babies from him and the lesser he sent me was not the one I had picked out... not only was it not the lesser I wanted it was also a MALE when I was told it was a female... the same exact pic he sent me of the "lesser female" was on kingsnake the next week as a lesser male... This now has me sketched out about the babies I got from him.

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Remember I told you to watch out for him

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Originally Posted by mlededee

i don't think i'm going to contact ed.

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You don't really need to...just wrap up whatever you have remaining from that picture, and fedex it back to him. :twisted: