Pics of Nyoka.

This is my ball python, Nyoka. I called it Snake for a while, decided to fancy it up.

http://img462.imageshack.us/img462/4...10smallwj6.jpg
Hello there.

http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/536/bp1smallyo7.jpg
Eep camera time!

Don't make me pout.
http://img462.imageshack.us/img462/6280/bp8smallai4.jpg

http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/8834/bp6smallxx7.jpg
Pouting.

And this is it's home.

http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/7117/bphomecn4.jpg

Toasty corner shack, with a big converted old floppy drive holder on the other side to chill out in. They work great if you can find them for free, holes in the top where the floppy disc plastic sectors went that are now great for ventilation.

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Originally Posted by sirgrim

And this is it's home.

http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/7117/bphomecn4.jpg

Toasty corner shack, with a big converted old floppy drive holder on the other side to chill out in. They work great if you can find them for free, holes in the top where the floppy disc plastic sectors went that are now great for ventilation.

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Lose the analog thermometers, they are garbage. Get a digital thermometer with a probe for like $12 at Wal Mart. Nice snake though.

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Originally Posted by Bright202

Lose the analog thermometers, they are garbage. Get a digital thermometer with a probe for like $12 at Wal Mart. Nice snake though.

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Yeah I'm gonna get a better one soon but they're working. I need to replace that shack with them too, it's been outgrown. Thanks.

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Originally Posted by sirgrim

Yeah I'm gonna get a better one soon but they're working. I need to replace that shack with them too, it's been outgrown. Thanks.

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How do you know that they're working? What have you calibrated them against? Most people that get a digital thermometer and compare them to the crappy dial ones find that they can be as much as 10 degrees off. I believe someone once even put a dial one in the freezer and it still read 85 degrees.

$12 is not much to spend to get a quality digital from Walmart like this:
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...mageloader.gif

Well the way I look at those dial, stick on ones is this...most pet stores use them. Most pet stores have snakes with stuck shed, as well as a ton of other issues - some of them relating to improper temps. Personally I'd spend the money on an Acu-Rite since proper monitoring of temperatures is one of the most important husbandry issues with these snakes.

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Originally Posted by rabernet

How do you know that they're working? What have you calibrated them against? Most people that get a digital thermometer and compare them to the crappy dial ones find that they can be as much as 10 degrees off. I believe someone once even put a dial one in the freezer and it still read 85 degrees.

$12 is not much to spend to get a quality digital from Walmart like this:

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I doubt they would sell or make them at all if they didn't actually work. Do you know the engineering principles behind an analog thermometer? They're not very complex. Sure they go bad, being off a couple degrees or what not. Just like the broken one stuck in the freezer. Probably corrupted by the heat and humidity and broke eventually.

I know people who have digital ones warp and stop working too. Does that mean they all don't work too?

That said, I have an infared no-contact thermometer I use for work. It works great for quickly comparing temperatures. I also keep the analogs in the dry corner to further their life.

I think my choice in monitoring equipment isn't very big. I will always give my animals the best care I can.

Sounds like you know what you're doing. Although I've heard far too many cases even just here on this forum where members have reported that they were inaccurate by 10 degrees or more when they changed to digital, and far fewer complaints with digital for me to ever feel comfortable with analog.

In any case - Nyoka is a lovely snake and looks to be very well cared for. :)

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Originally Posted by sirgrim

I doubt they would sell or make them at all if they didn't actually work.

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It's done ALL the time. I have purchased many cheapo thermostats and analog themometers and humidity gages from pet stores that are worthless. They buy them for 50 cents and sell them for $5 and make lots of $. No one is trying to put you down, just help. Many of us have done the exact same thing, like myself, and from advice and many years of experience we have learned about better ways and just trying to share that with you.

Yes digitals can go bad too but when you have everything dialed in with your t-stat it becomes pretty obvious and you just replace it.

We are just trying to help, not put you down.

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Originally Posted by westcoastjungle

It's done ALL the time. I have purchased many cheapo thermostats and analog themometers and humidity gages from pet stores that are worthless. They buy them for 50 cents and sell them for $5 and make lots of $. No one is trying to put you down, just help. Many of us have done the exact same thing, like myself, and from advice and many years of experience we have learned about better ways and just trying to share that with you.

Yes digitals can go bad too but when you have everything dialed in with your t-stat it becomes pretty obvious and you just replace it.

We are just trying to help, not put you down.

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I paid $1 for mine because I shop around and know what I'm looking for.

People calling my choice of equipment cheap is one thing. Saying it doesn't work right is assumptious at best, ignorant at least.

I also live in the desert, so equipment even works differently here and an analog setup might last longer without the high hummidy brought by, let's say Florida or California. Far away from salt too.

Yes, I am a little defensive that some pictures get nit-picked over guages by people that know nothing more about my setup or location than four pictures.

This might be my first ball python, but it's far from my first reptile or exotic pet.

Heck, I'm tempted to not upgrade to digital now just to show everyone it can be done.

Shh, just don't tell anyone I'm a live feeder. Keep 'em on the guages ;D

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Originally Posted by sirgrim

Shh, just don't tell anyone I'm a live feeder. Keep 'em on the guages ;D

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Shhhh, don't tell anyone that most of the members here are live feeders too, including me! :rolleyes:

Do what you do, if analog makes you happy, more power to you!

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Originally Posted by sirgrim

I doubt they would sell or make them at all if they didn't actually work. Do you know the engineering principles behind an analog thermometer? They're not very complex. Sure they go bad, being off a couple degrees or what not. Just like the broken one stuck in the freezer. Probably corrupted by the heat and humidity and broke eventually.

I know people who have digital ones warp and stop working too. Does that mean they all don't work too?

That said, I have an infared no-contact thermometer I use for work. It works great for quickly comparing temperatures. I also keep the analogs in the dry corner to further their life.

I think my choice in monitoring equipment isn't very big. I will always give my animals the best care I can.

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Look no need to get so defensive here, this is not about you, it's about what's the best thing for the snake. As far as them (i.e. the pet store) not selling something because it doesn't work, please go look at most chain pet stores. They sell heat rocks, years after it's been proven over and over that they simply are not safe for any creature let alone a snake. Your average pet store is not and should not be the standard by which anyone sets their husbandry.

No one is saying you aren't keeping your animal well, again this is about a few suggestions for a tweak here or there. Isn't that the reason most people join forums....to learn? Monitoring your snake's enclosure is a "very big" deal. Some snakes do very well under varying heat conditions, ball pythons are not one of those species.

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Originally Posted by sirgrim

People calling my choice of equipment cheap is one thing. Saying it doesn't work right is assumptious at best, ignorant at least.

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Not when it's based on, in many cases, years of experience keeping the equipment in the conditions these animals require. Regardless of whether you live in the desert, or on a polar ice cap, the conditions inside the enclosure should be the same temperature and humidity, and these devices are notorious for being inaccurate and prone to failure in regular use scenerios.

There is a reason they're tossing out the recommendation, and hint: it's for the good of the animal, not just trying to beat you up for cheaping out on items that are necessary for the health and well-being of your new acquisition.

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Originally Posted by sirgrim

Yes, I am a little defensive that some pictures get nit-picked over guages by people that know nothing more about my setup or location than four pictures.

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Well, a picture says a thousand words no? Would you expect not to get nit-picked by professional breeders if you only posted four pictures of you storing your animals in cardboard tubes?

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Originally Posted by sirgrim

This might be my first ball python, but it's far from my first reptile or exotic pet.

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So, as long as the rest of your "exotic pets" haven't died from lack of proper care, you should be well aware that each type of animal has very specific needs, in many cases requiring specific equipment and care techniques.

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Originally Posted by sirgrim

Heck, I'm tempted to not upgrade to digital now just to show everyone it can be done.

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Good idea, engaging in animal husbandry with inadequate equipment will sure show all those high-and-mighty snake keepers, many with dozens and/or hundreds of animals, who think they know more about BPs than you.

I live in a desert too. It's about 15 % humidity today, last week was 115 degrees. Today high 90's so maybe it's you making the assumptions. No one is attacking you dude, chill out. I started with one BP too and now have almost 40 and breeding many more. Just trying to give some friendly advice. Thats what we do here. Don't worry I won't offer you any more advice because obviously you take it very personally. And yes all my snakes eat live too.

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Originally Posted by ctrlfreq

Not when it's based on, in many cases, years of experience keeping the equipment in the conditions these animals require. Regardless of whether you live in the desert, or on a polar ice cap, the conditions inside the enclosure should be the same temperature and humidity, and these devices are notorious for being inaccurate and prone to failure in regular use scenerios.

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So you're saying your enclosure is 100% sealed, and operating on a bio-dome type setup generating it's own oxygen with plants and releases from your snake? There's NO outside input in your tank? Right. Any device can fail. An analog thermometer is built by coiling a piece of material that changes with temperatures. If this is coiled improperly or built improperly. Yes, they can fail. If the digital ones are constructed faulty, they can be inaccurate and prone to failure too. Even from the outside influences that aren't in your cage.

The air alone here has less salt than my examples. Salt is DEADLY to any equipment, and builds up easier than your sealed tank might expect.

If constructed properly there is no reason an analog setup is going to be more reliable than a digital, or vice versa.

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Originally Posted by ctrlfreq

There is a reason they're tossing out the recommendation, and hint: it's for the good of the animal, not just trying to beat you up for cheaping out on items that are necessary for the health and well-being of your new acquisition.

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I've had the snake for a while. I'm sharing pictures of it in the picture section. If I wanted to know how useless my analog devices are I would have asked about them in husbandry. But alas, I know they work.

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Originally Posted by ctrlfreq

Well, a picture says a thousand words no? Would you expect not to get nit-picked by professional breeders if you only posted four pictures of you storing your animals in cardboard tubes?

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No, a picture shows how something was at any given moment in time. Anyone can put two animals together and get them to breed. Want to impress me put them together and get them to not breed, without being stressed.

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Originally Posted by ctrlfreq

So, as long as the rest of your "exotic pets" haven't died from lack of proper care, you should be well aware that each type of animal has very specific needs, in many cases requiring specific equipment and care techniques.

Good idea, engaging in animal husbandry with inadequate equipment will sure show all those high-and-mighty snake keepers, many with dozens and/or hundreds of animals, who think they know more about BPs than you.

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Assume they have all died based on my use of an analog thermometer for all I care. Assume my equipment is inadequite when I actually know how and why it works. I can easily demonstrate it's accurate enough.

The fancy digitals, whose uses makes you a reptile expert, are prone to failure rate of +/- 2o. Do you know which way the one in YOUR tank is faulty? Is it entirely accurate? Have you even tested it, or does it just have to work, because it's digital?

If you're using anything without verifying it's accuracy then you have no room to comment. Keep assuming. Obviously you enjoy it.

Have fun.

I feed live too....

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Originally Posted by sirgrim

So you're saying your enclosure is 100% sealed, and operating on a bio-dome type setup generating it's own oxygen with plants and releases from your snake?

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Of course not, the statement was about the el-cheapo thermometers failing in normal enclosure conditions, which, regardless of external environments, should be the same (temp & humidity). Are you trying to say that the inside of the enclosure, where these devices reside, should be different based on the external environs?

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Originally Posted by sirgrim

If constructed properly there is no reason an analog setup is going to be more reliable than a digital, or vice versa.

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Bingo, which is the entire point. The cheap analog devices are not constructed properly, and are thus extremely prone to inaccuracy and failure, in the very conditions they are made to operate in. Seriously, how much, if any, quality control do you really think your $1 thermometer got?

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Originally Posted by sirgrim

No, a picture shows how something was at any given moment in time.

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And when someone addressed an issue in your picture at "that moment in time", you threw a tantrum about how you would 'show them'. Either way, are you claiming that your setup is different now than before, and if not, then why the "given moment" smoke-screen?

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Originally Posted by sirgrim

The fancy digitals, whose uses makes you a reptile expert, are prone to failure rate of +/- 2o.

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Failure rates look like 1 in 100 or 50 in 100, and are based on a given amount of time (not a variance of +/- a number of degrees).

That said, I would be very interested in the source of your information, as well as the information you decided not to refer to, the failure rate of the cheap analogs.

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Originally Posted by sirgrim

Do you know which way the one in YOUR tank is faulty? Is it entirely accurate? Have you even tested it, or does it just have to work, because it's digital?

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First, I don't, and wouldn't, use tanks since I know that glass enclosures, being made of glass and all, are themselves an obsticle for trying to maintain the proper conditions these animals require. Sure, you can do it, but that doesn't mean you should.

Second, our racks tend to have these "fancy digitials" in at least 50% of the populated tubs. This means that, along with the thermostat regulating the power level to the heating elements, I may have as many as 6-8 thermometers per rack. Given the number, and the fact that these are cleaned, batteries replaced, and move around regularly (often two or more in the same tub to verify accuracy), we can very easily pick out those that are broken or inaccurate. So far, we've had one fail, which was due to an animal deciding it looked better in the water bowl.

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Originally Posted by sirgrim

If you're using anything without verifying it's accuracy then you have no room to comment.

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Well, since we've now established that I do, in fact, verify the accuracy of the devices I use to take care of my animals, I guess I can comment all I want, eh? Can questions like "How many of these cheap thermometers do you have in the enclosure?", "How do you test and verify their accuracy?", or "Do you still have any of the previous 'exotics' you mentioned, and if not, what happened to them?" qualify as comments?

BURN!!! :teevee:

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Do what you do, if analog makes you happy, more power to you!

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I agree, if it works, it works, as long as you have a backup so you know if one breaks. I myself use the acurites that everyone talks about and I used only one with my rack which was a bad idea. It said 91 but my hand said ouch. Luckily none of my animals were hurt and now I use two acurites with my rack so i know if one goes bad. Analogs have been used forever and they arn't as acurite as electronics but they still work. As long as you have a backup its fine.

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Shhhh, don't tell anyone that most of the members here are live feeders too, including me! :rolleyes:

Do what you do, if analog makes you happy, more power to you!

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I eat live mice too, a little too fuzzy at times but warm and tasty. :D

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Originally Posted by ctrlfreq

Of course not, the statement was about the el-cheapo thermometers failing in normal enclosure conditions, which, regardless of external environments, should be the same (temp & humidity). Are you trying to say that the inside of the enclosure, where these devices reside, should be different based on the external environs?

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No, I'm saying where I am the air going INTO the tank, you know that stuff that replaces the current air in there. Let's call it a current. This current, is different based on where you are located. If someone has a tank in Florida, the current air is going to have more salt than say a tank in the desert. This is obvious. It's a bummer if you are unable to comprehend something that basic.

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Originally Posted by ctrlfreq

Bingo, which is the entire point. The cheap analog devices are not constructed properly, and are thus extremely prone to inaccuracy and failure, in the very conditions they are made to operate in. Seriously, how much, if any, quality control do you really think your $1 thermometer got?

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So it's bad because it's cheap? Not that I get a wholesale deal on them and pay no markup? That markup people were complaining about earlier? Yeah. That one. Prove price equils quality. Didn't think so.

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Originally Posted by ctrlfreq

And when someone addressed an issue in your picture at "that moment in time", you threw a tantrum about how you would 'show them'. Either way, are you claiming that your setup is different now than before, and if not, then why the "given moment" smoke-screen?

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I never said I would show them in regards to a picture. I meant it as I can show them analogs work just fine by keeping my snake healthy for a long time using them. Nice reading comprehension you have there.

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Originally Posted by ctrlfreq

Failure rates look like 1 in 100 or 50 in 100, and are based on a given amount of time (not a variance of +/- a number of degrees).

That said, I would be very interested in the source of your information, as well as the information you decided not to refer to, the failure rate of the cheap analogs.

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I'm already not very impressed with your reading ability, but next time you get one of your fancy digitals try reading the box it is in.

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Originally Posted by ctrlfreq

First, I don't, and wouldn't, use tanks since I know that glass enclosures, being made of glass and all, are themselves an obsticle for trying to maintain the proper conditions these animals require. Sure, you can do it, but that doesn't mean you should.

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A tank is defined as a large recepticle. Immagine this: they can even be made out of metal like the one on your car! OMG!!! evil glass!!

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Originally Posted by ctrlfreq

Second, our racks tend to have these "fancy digitials" in at least 50% of the populated tubs. This means that, along with the thermostat regulating the power level to the heating elements, I may have as many as 6-8 thermometers per rack. Given the number, and the fact that these are cleaned, batteries replaced, and move around regularly (often two or more in the same tub to verify accuracy), we can very easily pick out those that are broken or inaccurate. So far, we've had one fail, which was due to an animal deciding it looked better in the water bowl.

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I'm happy for you. How do you know they're accurate? If you shopped around and bought any of them on wholesale they're probably crap and won't work! (Using your logic)

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Originally Posted by ctrlfreq

Well, since we've now established that I do, in fact, verify the accuracy of the devices I use to take care of my animals, I guess I can comment all I want, eh? Can questions like "How many of these cheap thermometers do you have in the enclosure?", "How do you test and verify their accuracy?", or "Do you still have any of the previous 'exotics' you mentioned, and if not, what happened to them?" qualify as comments?

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I've already said that. Yet again, I'm not sure your reading comprehension is above 20%.

My last exotic was a giant millipede if you must know. Died last year at the age of 8. Oddly enough, I used analogs it's whole life.

Either way. Good luck with being a prick.

feeding live is the bext. i cant bring myself to thaw out a dead animal and heat it up with a blow dryer. that to me is more morbid than live feeding.

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Originally Posted by sirgrim

Either way. Good luck with being a prick.

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Cease with the name calling. Debate your point if you must, but debate civilly.

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Cease with the name calling. Debate your point if you must, but debate civilly.

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You can always delete my posts and account like I requested over a day ago.

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Originally Posted by sirgrim

You can always delete my posts and account like I requested over a day ago.

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Cease with the name calling. Debate your point if you must, but debate civilly.

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Cease with the name calling. Debate your point if you must, but debate civilly.

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OK fluffy. Is fluffy an OK name to call?

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Originally Posted by sirgrim

No, I'm saying where I am the air going INTO the tank, you know that stuff that replaces the current air in there. Let's call it a current.

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Yes, I'm aware that different environments have differing air pressure, concentrations of certan gasses, etc. The problem is, none of that is pertinent when you're dealing with a device that is meant to function between -20 and 140 degrees in an enclosed environment to maintain standard conditions, and yet still has a high rate of failure within those very ranges.

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Originally Posted by sirgrim

So it's bad because it's cheap? Not that I get a wholesale deal on them and pay no markup?

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There is a difference between cheap as in cost and cheap as in quality of fabrication, although low quality is usually accompanies low cost. Regardless of whether you paid $1 wholesale or $4 retail, they're still cheaply constructed and prone to failure.

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Originally Posted by sirgrim

I never said I would show them in regards to a picture. I meant it as I can show them analogs work just fine by keeping my snake healthy for a long time using them.

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And you think I'm the one with the comprehension problem? I know exactly what you were saying, and the fact that you meant that you would show them the analogs would work just fine IN SPITE OF the advice you were being given (which by the way came from many people who, like myself, have used and discarded the very same equipment you are so adamant about defending).

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Originally Posted by sirgrim

I'm already not very impressed with your reading ability, but next time you get one of your fancy digitals try reading the box it is in.

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I can look at it right now and tell you that +/- 2 degrees is NOT THE FAILURE RATE -- it is the range of accuracy (which your analogs under-perform by a 5-to-1 margin - or to put it in easy to understand terms, +/- 10 degrees). That said, you don't seem to be impressed by many things, including reason and experience by those who have been involved with this particular species.

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Originally Posted by sirgrim

A tank is defined as a large recepticle. Immagine this: they can even be made out of metal like the one on your car! OMG!!! evil glass!!

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First, a tank is a receptacle for liquids, not just any recepticle. Second, I didn't say glass was evil (although I will commend you on yet another nice straw-man), just that glass tanks are not efficient or optimal for the housing and maintenance of environments required by ball pythons.

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Originally Posted by sirgrim

I'm happy for you. How do you know they're accurate?

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First, I bought them from a reputable supplier who regulary ensures the quality of his goods (GO RICH!), second I regularly test and maintain my equipment, but you already know that, just like you know this is just another cop-out to avoid answering questions about how you know YOURS are accurate.

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Originally Posted by sirgrim

My last exotic was a giant millipede if you must know. Died last year at the age of 8. Oddly enough, I used analogs it's whole life.

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So you somehow feel that raising an arthropod that can thrive in drastically different humidity ranges (between 15-85%), and only requires a single-temperature enclosure that can fall anywhere within a 30 degree range, using devices that are accurate to +/- 10 degrees is somehow applicable to your new acquisition that is vastly more sensitive to both humidity and temperature, and has vastly greater requirements to stay healthy. Gotcha.

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Originally Posted by sirgrim

OK fluffy. Is fluffy an OK name to call?

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No you can call her Robin, ma'am, or even Madame Administrator. :rolleyes:

You do realize that being abrasive and confrontational will not get your info deleted. We can however place you undermoderation, or eventully even ban you. But neither of those two options get your info deleted. Just your ability to use this site.

Wow, this is all over a $1 thermometer. :confused:

Time to move on to helping people that want/need it. NEXT

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Originally Posted by sirgrim

I paid $1 for mine because I shop around and know what I'm looking for.

People calling my choice of equipment cheap is one thing. Saying it doesn't work right is assumptious at best, ignorant at least.

I also live in the desert, so equipment even works differently here and an analog setup might last longer without the high hummidy brought by, let's say Florida or California. Far away from salt too.

Yes, I am a little defensive that some pictures get nit-picked over guages by people that know nothing more about my setup or location than four pictures.

This might be my first ball python, but it's far from my first reptile or exotic pet.

Heck, I'm tempted to not upgrade to digital now just to show everyone it can be done.

Shh, just don't tell anyone I'm a live feeder. Keep 'em on the guages ;D

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LOL I used analog for many years. Snakes are still alive and reproducing. The digital are more accurate and easier to read. I switched to them awhile ago and I'll never go back. Some people are very quick to point out what you are doing wrong or what you can do to better take care of your reptiles(in their opinion). I just try to think that they are trying to help and not just be a know it all.

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Originally Posted by Royalherper

LOL I used analog for many years. Snakes are still alive and reproducing. The digital are more accurate and easier to read. I switched to them awhile ago and I'll never go back. Some people are very quick to point out what you are doing wrong or what you can do to better take care of your reptiles(in their opinion). I just try to think that they are trying to help and not just be a know it all.

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Agreed.

No need to get personal