Pastel Jungle (I'm so full of questions today)

What makes a pastel jungle? What would you cross to produce one?

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Originally Posted by Jay_Bunny

What makes a pastel jungle? What would you cross to produce one?

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Jungle is a type of pattern not type of pastel. :D

okay so to sound like a complete newbie :D a pastel is not the same as a pastel jungle due to patterning of the animal, correct?

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Originally Posted by Ladydragon

okay so to sound like a complete newbie :D a pastel is not the same as a pastel jungle due to patterning of the animal, correct?

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No a pastel is a pastel.

Ok, my fiance and I were discussing the silver bullet ball python and so I started looking up the ingredients for one. It says Cinnamon x Pewter Pastel. I then looked up the ingredients for Pewter Pastel and it said a Cinnamon x Pastel Jungle.

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Originally Posted by Jay_Bunny

Ok, my fiance and I were discussing the silver bullet ball python and so I started looking up the ingredients for one. It says Cinnamon x Pewter Pastel. I then looked up the ingredients for Pewter Pastel and it said a Cinnamon x Pastel Jungle.

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Pewters can be made with Jungle Pastels or Lemon Pastels. ;D

Oh so if you take a lemon pastel and cross it with a cinnamon you get pewter. Cross pewter with cinnamon and you get silver bullet?

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Originally Posted by Jay_Bunny

Oh so if you take a lemon pastel and cross it with a cinnamon you get pewter. Cross pewter with cinnamon and you get silver bullet?

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Yea sounds right :D

The original name for Pastels was "Jungle Pastel" (or "Pastel Jungle"....can't remember which order it started out in) ....and has since been shortened to Pastel. Basically all those names are interchangeable and mean the same thing.


"Jungle" refers to a particularly busy pattern that is not predictably reproduceable in normal ball pythons. Perhaps the jungle pattern shows up to some degree or other more often in pastels....or perhaps the original pastel proved out had a very "jungley" pattern.

so then the pastel male I'm getting can be crossed with a cinny to produce pewters... and then onto the silver bullet. pastel=pastel jungle. I'm having a brain-fart day today, and suffering from C.R.S. syndrome. :D

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Originally Posted by Ladydragon

so then the pastel male I'm getting can be crossed with a cinny to produce pewters... and then onto the silver bullet. pastel=pastel jungle. I'm having a brain-fart day today, and suffering from C.R.S. syndrome. :D

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That is correct. And just to confirm what Judy said, all pastels are pastel jungles. But there are different lines of pastels (aka pastel jungle) like NERD Lemon, Graziani, etc.

Steve

kewl thanx. sometimes it gets confusing when reading up on a morph and seeing all the different lines or names from different breeders. :rolleye2:

The different pastel;s are all different lines(blond, lemon, jungle, etc) except ruppels and enchis ;)

"Jungle" is not a pastel line. The original pastels were given the Pastel Jungle name because, as Judy said, they had a very busy (Jungle) pattern. If I breed two (any line) pastels together and I produce two hatchlings. One with nice, normal alien head patterns.. this one would be a "Pastel" and if the other had a 'busy' pattern, with twisted and oddly positioned markings.. sorta like chamoflage.. the "Jungle" pattern.. that one would be a Jungle Pastel (or Pastel Jungle)


Note that even a normal ball can be a "Jungle" ball, based soley on pattern..

Think of "jungle" as a non-genetic pattern.. much like "reduced pattern".. So I could produce a "Reduced Pastel" too..

I hope that helps..

Rick

A Silver Bullet is a super cinnamon pastel. That's why you need to breed a pewter to a cinnamon. You need both parents to carry the cinnamon gene. You can also use black pastels (really they're cinnamons but look a little different) to create pewters. And then there's the super pastel cinnamons, aka Sterling Pastel/Silver Streak. They look like pewters but even lighter. The Silver Streak moniker was given to the black pastel version. To get these you breed pewter X pastel.

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Originally Posted by SiscoReptiles

"Jungle" is not a pastel line. The original pastels were given the Pastel Jungle name because, as Judy said, they had a very busy (Jungle) pattern. If I breed two (any line) pastels together and I produce two hatchlings. One with nice, normal alien head patterns.. this one would be a "Pastel" and if the other had a 'busy' pattern, with twisted and oddly positioned markings.. sorta like chamoflage.. the "Jungle" pattern.. that one would be a Jungle Pastel (or Pastel Jungle)


Note that even a normal ball can be a "Jungle" ball, based soley on pattern..

Think of "jungle" as a non-genetic pattern.. much like "reduced pattern".. So I could produce a "Reduced Pastel" too..

I hope that helps..

Rick

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gotcha.. thanx everyone... it does help. Been studying all that I can and plotting my course as to what breeding "programs" I want to do in the future. "marks in notebook - Jungle just refers to the busy pattern".

I am glad to be able to help clarify..

Here is an example of a normal that could be called a "reduced pattern jungle".

http://www.siscoreptiles.com/ball%20pythons/body.jpg

You can see the first half is "jungle" and the last half is "reduced". (sorry for the glare, she was just hatched in that picture)

Hope the visual helps too..

Rick

She's got the tail of a clown to me... :D

... So what do you get from breeding a Super Pastel to a Super Cinnamon?

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Originally Posted by Dr_Gonz0

... So what do you get from breeding a Super Pastel to a Super Cinnamon?

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pewters, cinnies, pastels, maybe some sterlings. You could pip out a whole lot of stuff with that combo.

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Originally Posted by Dr_Gonz0

... So what do you get from breeding a Super Pastel to a Super Cinnamon?

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You'd get all pewters. Each baby would inherit ONE pastel gene and ONE cinny gene. There shouldn't be any supers or just plain pastels or plain cinnies in the clutch.

thanx the visual did help, and what a visual at that. Thats a pretty girl. I agree with littleindiangirl, her back half does look a bit clownish.

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Originally Posted by SiscoReptiles

I am glad to be able to help clarify..

Here is an example of a normal that could be called a "reduced pattern jungle".

http://www.siscoreptiles.com/ball%20pythons/body.jpg

You can see the first half is "jungle" and the last half is "reduced". (sorry for the glare, she was just hatched in that picture)

Hope the visual helps too..

Rick

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Originally Posted by JLC

You'd get all pewters. Each baby would inherit ONE pastel gene and ONE cinny gene. There shouldn't be any supers or just plain pastels or plain cinnies in the clutch.

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I was under the impression that is how Silverstreaks were made.

Pastel + Cinnamon/Black Pastel = possible Pewter
Super Pastel + Cinnamon/Black Pastel = possible Sterling
Super Pastel + Super Cinnamon/Black Pastel = possible Silverstreak

... or am I incorrect?

A silver streak and sterling pastel are super pastel cinnamons. They're the same thing, except the silver streak uses a black pastel. I don't believe there has ever been a super pastel super cinnamon produced. To get a streak/sterling, both parents need to be pastels, and one parent needs to be cinnamon/black pastel. So that only leaves one logical combo. Pewter X Pastel. Pewter X Pewter would also make streaks/sterlings, as well as the aforementioned super pastel super cinny. It would also produce pastels, cinnamons, more pewters, super pastels, super cinnies, and silver bullets.

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Originally Posted by dcgator24

A silver streak and sterling pastel are super pastel cinnamons. They're the same thing, except the silver streak uses a black pastel. I don't believe there has ever been a super pastel super cinnamon produced. To get a streak/sterling, both parents need to be pastels, and one parent needs to be cinnamon/black pastel. So that only leaves one logical combo. Pewter X Pastel. Pewter X Pewter would also make streaks/sterlings, as well as the aforementioned super pastel super cinny. It would also produce pastels, cinnamons, more pewters, super pastels, super cinnies, and silver bullets.

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I meant silver bullets, sorry. They are the result of? Pewter + Cinnamon/Black? Pewter + super Cinnamon/Black?

Part of the confusion may be the use of “+” and “X” notation.

I think they get used different ways by different people but I would use + to mean having a combination of genes. Like a pewter is pastel + cinnamon. It doesn't directly tell you what the parents where but it says an individual pewter has one pastel gene and one cinnamon gene.

I use X to show a breeding of parents. Like pastel X cinnamon has a chance (1 in 4 per egg) to produce a pewter.

With the pewter example they are the same. You could produce a pewter from the cross pastel X cinnamon and the genetics of that pewter are pastel + cinnamon.

But when you get to something like the sterling pastel then the genetics of that animal are super pastel + cinnamon but you couldn't produce it with the super pastel X cinnamon breeding because the super pastel can only give one pastel gene and the sterling needs two. One of the ways you could produce the sterling would be pewter X pastel.

All very confusing?

Good post Randy. To go along with your notation, a Silver Bullet is a super cinny + pastel. Yes, you're right Gonzo. To produce one, you would breed a pewter X cinny or super cinny.