Sexing questions

Hi all,

I just moved out to western MA and took my couple-month-old BP to the local vet for a visit, not because I knew anything about the vet, but because they refused to do a fecal test for me unless I had an initial vet visit, and that's what I really wanted from them. This vet apparently treats exotics (I found her from the herp vet connection site) but seemed like she didn't have much experience. I asked if she would be able to sex my snake and I got a very perplexed response, followed by some scrambling for info in back and coming up empty. I guess they don't have small enough probes there anyways, but I wouldn't want an inexperienced exotics vet probing my snake :\

Anyhow, my question is this. We were discussing non-invasive methods and the vet mentioned something about being able to count the "double scales" on the snake's belly to determine if it was male or female, which I think are the ones below the vent, and also that in females the tail tends to narrow sharply after the vent where in the male it is a more gradual taper. However she was not sure on either of these and now I am just curious if anyone knows if there is truth to these statements and if they apply to BP's? (She also talked about doing x-rays to detect the spurs, but I don't think that applies to BP's.)

And for anyone who was wondering, I am not getting the fecal done there but they are sending it to a lab where they are more familiar with examining snake fecal's. I wish I could have just done that myself and canceled out the expensive middleman :snake:

There are only two ways to sex a snake probing and popping.

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She also talked about doing x-rays to detect the spurs

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If she said that, I have an advice for you run :bolt:

Spurs are visible and no X-ray vision needed ;) (Both females and males have them) they are the the vestigial remnants of legs and are found on both side of the vent.

You definitely need to find a different vet. If you want to know the sex of the snake, find an experienced person to pop or probe him/her for you. It's very easy and the snakes don't mind all that much(it's definitely not like going to the OB/GYN doc, that's for sure). There isn't any difference in scalation, spur size, tail size, and radiographs aren't going to tell what sex the snake is.


If the vet can't even do a fecal while looking in a book, then that's sad. I can read a fecal on any animal in about 5 minutes and tell you if the animal has parasites, what they are and how to treat them. It's far from rocket science. Hopefully the lab isn't too expensive and they can easily tell you if your snake has any internal parasites.

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Originally Posted by GA_Ball_Pythons

If she said that, I have an advice for you run :bolt:

Spurs are visible and no X-ray vision needed ;) (Both females and males have them) they are the the vestigial remnants of legs and are found on both side of the vent.

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I'm in the middle of the boonies of western MA... the herp and fish trade in general is almost dead here! :mad: Like I said, I just wanted to be able to quickly drop off fecal tests there, so that if I suspect something's wrong I don't have to make a huge trip to get a fecal test done. For anything other than that I'll go to Dr. Mertz back near Boston. He's awesome :D

P.S. if anyone can prove me wrong about my statements regarding western MA, PLEASE let me know!

P.S... On the bright side, this whole incident has furthered my interest in switching majors at my school and aiming at becoming an exotics vet. There just are too few of them out there, and it's frustrating that there are people who are "qualified exotic vets" who really have barely handled herps since they were interns.

What do you all think about THAT? :)

WOW Icygirl that sounds wonderful! I think its awesome that you want to be a herp vet! As for your experiance I totally know what you mean! I live in Kansas but herping isnt dead here, but the vet i went to was a total dits. she wanted me to spend $250 bucks for DNA testing to see if ki was a girl... she still probed her and i got the same answer you did... A very confused answer that translated into "i... I think its a girl.." GRRRRRR they totally need to go back to vet school

the anal spurs are visable to the eye there are just up from the end of the tail follow the tail up and you will find them there easy to find it's not a problem,you can tell the sex by the tail but it's not accurate because i have had baby's at just under a year tested and one month there male and another there female so you would in my opinion you should wait untill there about a year cause there sex can change and i don't care what anyone say's i learned of a breeder it's just one of thoughts thing's it's to with there growth or something that how it change's and cause there young so you'ed better wait and then get it probed or poping one of them ok pal if you have any prob's i can put you on to my friend who is the breeder so if you want to speak toher just give me a shout ok pal p.s an x ray that's the funny's thing i've heard yet spak soon casper 69

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Originally Posted by casper69

you can tell the sex by the tail but it's not accurate because i have had baby's at just under a year tested and one month there male and another there female so you would in my opinion you should wait untill there about a year cause there sex can change

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Casper, no - their sex does not change. If it changed for you, then someone mis-sexed it either the first or second time. Their sex does not change as they age.

Hours old babies can be popped to determine sex. You just need to find someone EXPERIENCED in either popping or probing. Someone in-experienced can mis-sex them.

Hey IcyGirl, you should post the contact info for that vet. I live near boston and would love to meet a recommended exotics vet. Until now, i've been trying to meet all of their needs (thankfully without issue so far) myself since i've been afraid of having an experience like the one you're describing.

How serious a microscope does one need to run their own fecals?

You need a pretty powerful one to be able to see flagellates such as giardia or the oocysts of coccidia(and be able to tell the difference between those and cryptosporidium). Those cost around $1200-$1500, plus all of the equipment and medications(some you would only be able to get from a veterinarian anyway).

"pretty powerful" is somewhat subjective. I was hoping more for a specific number of magnifications - to see if what i have access to at these labs are going to do the job or not.

If you have any idea, please let me know :) thanks.

I think 100x is what we use, but 40x would probably be sufficient. You want something with an Oil Immersion lens to see the teensies.

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Originally Posted by Morphie

Hey IcyGirl, you should post the contact info for that vet. I live near boston and would love to meet a recommended exotics vet. Until now, i've been trying to meet all of their needs (thankfully without issue so far) myself since i've been afraid of having an experience like the one you're describing.

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The best herp vet around is Dr. Greg Mertz. He is known as the "Odd Pet Vet" because he mainly deals with herps, birds, small animals, and various other critters. He has two locations, one in Needham at the Chestnut Animal Hospital - I believe he is there Thursday evenings but you might want to check. The other location is in Weymouth. I have not seen him with my snake, but I went to him several times with my bearded dragon, and he is very knowledgeable and all around a nice guy who will make you feel comfortable. His number is 781-251-9131.

There is one other vet I have been recommended to in the area whose name is Dr. Jacqueline Warner at the Medfield Vet Clinic. Haven't personally gone to her, but I hear that she is also quite experienced in treating exotics. Their number is 508-359-1920.


Also, some good news: Lab results for the fecal came back negative. Yay!! :D And the vet also mentioned on the phone message, that the method of "counting scales" that she mentioned had to do with probing the snakes. Well, duh! :rolleyes:

Oh and I was wondering, does anyone know of a lab where you can send the fecal samples directly by mail, for a lesser price? And if so how would one go about preparing it?

Our diagnostic lab is the TVMDL and they do alot of the diagnostic work for A&M I think.

As far as a fecal goes, I would ask the vet. You could always ship it to him prepared in some formalin or just in a ziploc bag with moist paper towel. Usually costs me around $4 to ship a small package like that overnight.

I usually do a fecal on all of my group every 6 months to a year. I think I've only come up with partially digested pinworm eggs before, and those were from the mice, so no biggie.