to breed or not to breed?

Well, here's my situation..

Right now I've got a total of 4 BP's, 1 eats ONLY live adult mice (2 per week), 2 will eat anything I give them, live or dead, and the 4th is too new to tell, but for sure will eat live fuzzy mice (he ate 2 last night as soon as I got him home.) Feeders around here are not cheap. I figure, if I went with mice only, I'd need 5-7 adults per week. At $2 each at the pet store, that's $10-14. If I drive to my local herp shop, which is 20 miles away, it's $1.50 each plus gas, which might as well be $2 each total. That's not even considering the price difference if I wanted to get rats for the ones who will eat them.

So, at a minimum of $10-14 per week, would it be economically feasible to just breed my mice, feed live to the ones that require it, and freeze the rest? I'm not sure what the cost of food and supplies is for mice, but it seems to me it's probably less than $40-60/mo...

Moved this to the "Feeder" forum for ya...you'll likely get more replies here than in the "For Sale" area. :P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JLC

Moved this to the "Feeder" forum for ya...you'll likely get more replies here than in the "For Sale" area. :P

---

haha, oops...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CntrlF8

So, at a minimum of $10-14 per week, would it be economically feasible to just breed my mice, feed live to the ones that require it, and freeze the rest? I'm not sure what the cost of food and supplies is for mice, but it seems to me it's probably less than $40-60/mo...

---

If you are able to feed live and then feed F/T when needed...then Yes breeding feeders would be a better option for you. Initially the cost of setup (housing, water bottles, food, bedding) will run you extra but once setup then the cost to maintain the breeding colony is relatively low (compared to buying mice each week)

I can tell you mice are not easy to breed (when compared to rats). You will basically need to put 1 male and 2-3 females together and then NOT mess with them till the girls are near to give birth. Then remove the male and again do NOT mess with them again till you are ready to feed off the babies. Mice have a tendency to eat their young when stressed and they stress easily.

If you have any questions just let us know and I am sure we can help get you started.

FWIW...I did the math and it would cost me about $400 in feeders each month (if I had to buy them) vs. $0.46 each to breed rats. (this is just to feed the 30 or so that I have)

Mice do have a strong smell so I wouldn't be wanting to breed them unless I had a basement or totally seperate room for them. Everytime I've tried to breed the little boogers either they ate their own young or they stunk up my nice rat area. Maybe I'm just really reactive to the smell of mice but to me...they stink big time no matter how often I change their bedding.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by frankykeno

Mice do have a strong smell so I wouldn't be wanting to breed them unless I had a basement or totally seperate room for them. Everytime I've tried to breed the little boogers either they ate their own young or they stunk up my nice rat area. Maybe I'm just really reactive to the smell of mice but to me...they stink big time no matter how often I change their bedding.

---

Joanna...Have you tried Woody Pet? (or one of the other pine pellet litters)

My daughter has 4 pet mice (all boys) and I agree with you they stink...but once we switched to Pine Pellets the smell is basically gone (and these are in her bedroom with her)...all my rats are on this stuff now as well...just an idea. :)

Unfortunately Sean I can't seem to find that product in Toledo so I've been searching for something similar. Happily we now have all the snakes on rats. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by frankykeno

Unfortunately Sean I can't seem to find that product in Toledo so I've been searching for something similar. Happily we now have all the snakes on rats. :)

---

An equivalent product is called Equine Fresh and is sold at Tractor Supply Stores. I have also heard that stove pellets are basically the same thing and I would think those would be available at home improvement stores once the weather changes.

But I agree rats are the way to go...for those few that don't like rats they LOVE ASF so I am covered either way.

Yep we're covered too or soon will be. One of our new ASF females is pretty much a round ball with a head and four legs sticking out LOL. We should be seeing our first ASF litter any day now. :)

ASF? not familiar with that...

Mice are easy to breed, if you act like they aren't there. I keep 1.12(I think, I've lost count) in one cement mixing tub that is converted into a lab-style cage. The albino mice are the best breeders and you will get nice sized litters. The fancy mice, while I love the long haired, the frizzies, the satins, etc, they can be a bit neurotic at times if you don't cull them when they start showing signs. It's inheritable it seems(if a mother is neurotic, the babies will be too).

You want to keep them together ALL OF THE TIME. Do not mess with them more than once per week, unless you are giving food/water. I keep their hopper full of Mazuri 9F(9% fat instead of 6%) and I use a 32oz water bottle. I try to keep them in a dark place where only the front of the tub gets some light.

I'll take pictures of how I did the cages, but I'll be making them differently soon. The wood I used(2x2s I think) for the frame isn't very sturdy and doesn't do well with nails/screws(likes to split). Be sure to use 1/4" wire as hoppers and small mice can get out of the 1/2" hardware cloth.

Shopping list:
1- black cement mixing tub($5)
1- Large water bottle($3-$4)
-Bedding, Kiln dried fine milled pine or aspen(depends on your area, a big bag here for 10cuft expanded is around $4 for pine and 4.5cu.ft. for aspen is $10)
1- roll of 1/4" hardware cloth, 3ft x 5ft($5-$6)
Either some 2x4's or 2x2's for the wood frame that holds the wire, for the lid. You'll need 4 pieces.
-staple gun, wire cutters, zip ties or some 16g wire(or smaller). I prefer the wire because the mice can't chew it.

This will all make sense when I get pics tomorrow :) Like I said though, mice are easy to breed if you just pretend they don't exist and you are business-like in your dealings with them(no playing with them or babies until they get used to you).

Well I am gonna be the exception here I guess, yet I did have a hard time getting started.

I keep my mice in a rack less than 35$ to make, here is the DIY http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=50518

I keep 2 females per tub and have 2 males running through 3 tubs each staying in the tubs 2 weeks at the time.

Unlike most people that have posted I have better result with interacting with my mice on a daily basis, they are less skittish and do not mind being check on or handled.

I have never experience cannibalism this way, apparently being used to have me checking on them everyday has made them less skittish and less stress than others, also I think proper diet is very important as well to cut down the risk of cannibalism.

My females have anywhere between 10 to 16 babies per litters and I rarely have a loss.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GA_Ball_Pythons

Well I am gonna be the exception here I guess, yet I did have a hard time getting started.

I keep my mice in a rack less than 35$ to make, here is the DIY http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=50518

I keep 2 females per tub and have 2 males running through 3 tubs each staying in the tubs 2 weeks at the time.

Unlike most people that have posted I have better result with interacting with my mice on a daily basis, they are less skittish and do not mind being check on or handled.

I have never experience cannibalism this way, apparently being used to have me checking on them everyday has made them less skittish and less stress than others, also I think proper diet is very important as well to cut down the risk of cannibalism.

My females have anywhere between 10 to 16 babies per litters and I rarely have a loss.

---

So are you able to change the bedding without your females going all nuts and eating babies? The smell would be my primary concern...

as far as housing, well, I've already got 2 10g aquariums I'm not using for anything. a lid, water bottles,food, and bedding (I've already got aspen I'm not using for my snakes any more) and I'm all set... Finding space might be a problem, but I think I could manage. I think my primary hurdle will be the fact that I've got 4 cats, who no matter where I put the tanks will be able to see and "play with" the mice. This could either be good or bad in my opinion, because the mice might become acclimated to the stress and be less likely to cannibalize, or it could freak them out so much they just don't breed at all. what do you guys think?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CntrlF8

So are you able to change the bedding without your females going all nuts and eating babies?

---

Yes I am, I even manage to check the babies right after birth put them back and have no issue, which is amazing knowing are prone they are to cannibalism.

Like I say they are used to me and not as skittish like most mice are. Also all my females are holdbacks raised from birth.

For the smell I put some vanilla extract in their water and since the breeding colony is mainly female it is not as bad, and of course I clean their enclosure every 5 to 7 days.

My concern is the glass tank the fact that they are more expose to the outside and have a lot of open space will play a major factor in the stress, mine have always been house in this rack http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p...r/MiceRack.jpg, and as you can see the tubs are not see through, they also have a low ceiling, so they don't feel threaten

Well, I made the leap. I went out and bought all the stuff I need for a "cute" setup for 2 female and 1 male mouse. Hopefully I'll have babies in a month or so...

How many breeders do you guys think I'll need to be able to have 7-10 adults available per week? I'm guessing at least 8 females, since mice reach adulthood in about 6 weeks...