Setting Up a New Home for Sammy

Hi everyone,

I am new to this forum. I just adopted my little Sammy on Saturday, August 25th. :) She is a cute little BP - about 2 months old (I'll post a pic when I figure out how to do it - hehe).

I currently have her in a Exo Terra Terrarium (18x18x18) which I soon found out was not ideal for creating the warm/cool environments they need. I am therefore setting up a new home for Sammy and I have a few questions.

I can get a 30 gallon aquarium from my future father in law (for free). The bottom is recessed so it could fit an under tank heater. I would need to get a screen/top for it. I found some interesting ones (e.g. EZ-Entry Hinged Screen Cover; Oasis Tera-Tops Flexible Screen Tank Covers). Anyone knows anything about them and if they are any good? I want something sturdy enough so she won't escape but I don't want something I need to remove completely everytime I want to see her or to change her water/clean her cage, etc (as that would mean I have to remove her heat lamps too!). Am I better off just buying a special snake cage with doors at the front? I am willing to spend the extra money if needed, I just want what's best for my little Sammy.

I also got a Repti-temp Rheostat only to find out when I got home that it didn't have a probe. Not sure how it works but I'm guessing it's not the best. I ended up finding the Zoo Med Reptitemp 500R Thermometer Sensor online. It has a probe and a thermometer so you can adjust the thermostat by temperature. Anyone knows if it's good? Anything better? Again, I want what's best for Sammy. :)

Finally, would I be good with the under tank heater and lamp at one end and nothing at the other or would I be best buying 2 under tank heaters and two thermostats to regulate both ends. The only problem with using that thermostat is, how do I make things cooler at night time? I wanted to do one end at 80F and one at 90F and use the heat lamp only during the daytime (at the 90F end to make it reach 90F) but if the thermostat adjust to keep the temperature at 80F/90F, the lamp won't be adding any additional heat during the daytime(?) So I am a little confused. How do you guys do it?

Thanks,
Melanie (AKA SammysMom)

That's a lot of questions. Haha

Ill help with 2 things. For a baby that's 2 months old I'm sure she's still pretty small. I would set up a sterilite tub. A really small one. Less than 32 quarts. Available at walmart.

And you need to maintain heat on the cool end of 82 to 84 degrees. And 92 to 94 on the hot end. At ALL times. 80 and 90 isn't hot enough. And I ONLY use belly heat with undertank heaters.

Your best bet for all your husbandry supplies is gonna be www.reptilebasics.com

Don't be suckered into cheap and unreliable supplies from chain stores. They'll fluctuate and have potential to kill your animal. Not trying to sound mean by any means. Just trying to be informative. Its certainly not a cheap hobby/interest to have. Good luck.

Hi Melanie,

I'm glad to see you taking the time and effort to do things right.

First off, an aquarium isn't an ideal setting for a snake as it can be very difficult to regulate the temps and humidity. Not impossible, but difficult.

A better alternative would be a PVC cage that is used specifically for snakes. You can find many companies such as Reptile Basics, Boaphile Plastics, or Animal Plastics that make such cages. These provide an environment that is easy to heat, keeps the humidity in, easy to clean, and is visually appealing. You can use a Sterilite or Rubbermaid bin for the same results, but many people don't like the look of them especially if they're only going to keep one or two snakes.

As far as your temperature control, the Repti-Temp Rheostat didn't have a probe because rheostats only control the the current to the heating device. It's essentially a "dimmer" whereas a thermostat will adjust the current in order to maintain a specific temperature. The most common pet store brand is the Zoo Med, unfortunately they are rather cheap and have been known to fail relatively often. A better alternative would be to purchase a reliable thermostat such as the Johnson, Ranco, Helix, or Herpstat. The latter two are proporational thermostat which are essentially a rheostat and thermostat combined and are a little more expensive.

As far as heating, if you stick with an aquarium you might be better off with the UTH on one side and the lamp over the other side. The lamp would then be used to heat the air space in the cage and the UTH would be used to provide a stable belly temp for your snake.

Good luck!

Cheers to you for taking the time to do things right ;)

Why don't you figure out which type of enclosure you perfer such as a....

Tub Very easy to keep and maintain, very easy on the wallet but not the best looking.

Aquarium Visually pleasing, not as cheap as a tub, very hard to keep and maintain

Plastic Very nice looking, very easy to keep and maintain, very expensive.


All can be made to work, just depends what you want and what your willing to spend.

Melanie,

I have also recently joined this site (about 2-3 weeks ago I think) when I got my first BP. Now I'm no expert... but I've learned alot so far. My BP(Rocky) isn't as young as yours but he is still very small. Here's what I've gathered and how my tank is set up.

I've got a 10 gallon tank. (Very large tanks can create alot of stress for these little guys since they are somewhat shy in nature)

A UTH (under tank heater) for 10-20 gallon tanks on the right side.

A heat lamp on the same side;
(60watt blue bulb during day/
40watt black moonlight bulb at night)

A water dish in the center (large enough that he can soak in)

Two identical hides, one on each end.

A thermometer with a probe on the "hot side"

A humidity guage/ thermometer on "the cool side"

Aspen Bedding

Some driftwood picked up at nearby pet store

A randon stick from outside which I sterilized with bleach before putting it in.

I've also put tin foil and duct tape across the top to keep in heat and humidity, leaving a small space for my heat lamp.

And last I've got a spray mist bottle to help with humidity.

I'll get a pic up as soon as I can. I would recommend that you buy a humidity/temp guage with a probe as I've heard the stick on one I have is not accurite. Unfortuanetly, I can't get one yet.

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/f...ckystank-1.jpg


http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/f...rockystank.jpg


These are photos I took at night (w/ flash obviously). You can see he's very fixated on his night lamp, lol. The hot side temps in my tank during the day range from 90-93, at night they drop to 80-82 at the lowest. The cool side stays around 79-80 although that may not be accurite.

That cardboard is used to cover the left and back sides on the tank (although it's not on the right way in the photo). I also have something to block light from the front at night, since I have him on 12hour shifts day/night and I'm always up much later than when his nights begin.


O... and that's not a real gun, just a pellet gun I bought in high school which I recently resurected.

Hope all that helped :salute:



The 30 gallon can be used when she's a big girl so I'd take it and save it.

BigCe,

If your hot side temp is dropping from 90-93 in the day to 80-82 at night you have a problem. That is a pretty harsh drop in temps and I would guess you're going to run into problems in the future if that's not fixed. What does your cool side drop to during the night?

Sammysmom,

In my opinion you should either go with a tub or a plastic vision cage. Either one is going to me much easier and much less nerve racking to maintain than an aquarium. Temps and humidity fluxuate much more in an aquarium than a tub or plastic which can turn into a little more work to get things right but it can be done and many here do it. A tub provides a perfect BP home in every way, a plastic cage does that with a little "bling" on the side ;)

Keep us posted regardless and lets see pics!

Thats weird , I read somewhere(don't remember where) that a 10 degree drop is normal at night. My cool side is about 75. Any recommendations.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BigCeC43

Thats weird , I read somewhere(don't remember where) that a 10 degree drop is normal at night. My cool side is about 75. Any recommendations.

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The first thing I would do is to go buy a digital thermometer such as the Accurite which is very popular here and can be found at Wallmart for about $12. This will measure your hot side/cool side and humidity. The dial unit your using in the picture can be extrememly inaccurate.

What is the ambient temp in the room you have the cage in? You can have a drop of a couple degrees at night but 10 or 11 like your having is way too much and can lead to a very sick snake down the road. How long have you had your snake thus far? You can try adding a second UTH with a thermostat to the cool side of the cage to see if that brings temps up a bit. It's not going to help with your night drops your having though. Hopefully somebody with more aquarium experience can chime in on this.

The rule of thumb from what i've learned here is that you want to maintain a constant 90-94/80-84 temp range with 50% humidity (slightly bumped for shed) at all times in your snakes cage. Fluxuations of 10 degrees is not good and needs to be fixed.

If it comes down to it you should keep your options open for a tub setup if you can't get things right with your aquarium.

Good luck!

I will be purchasing the Accurite thermometer to measure the cool side temp and humidity. I know it's hard to see but the hot side has a digital thermometer with a probe (the suction cup that guides the probe down is what my BP is coiled around) the actual themometer is stuck on the right side of the tank. I think my problem may also be where the probe is placed...

I noticed last night that he tends to move it as he travels around his tank. For example, I originally had the themometer placed about an inch over the substrate where the UTH is and about and inch or two away from the glass. This would give me night temps of 83-84.
Then he managed to move is so that it was touching the glass on the side of the tank, this gave me the 80-82 temps.
After reading your post last night I put the probe on the ground where the UTH is about 2 inches away from the glass on the right side of my tank(I figured this is the hottest spot in the tank and since half of the UTH is under his hide I hoped he would find it if he needed heat). This gave me temps in the low 90's.


Another weird thing is that at night he always tends to climb along the glass walls, which I would believe aren't very warm. He also climbs around the cool side just as much if not more than the hot side. :confused:
Are there any specific signs that you tell you your tank is too cool?(like your BP staying on the UTH on the hot side, or staying under the light w/out moving).
I only ask b/c my digital thermometer w/ the probe gave me so many different readings last night I'm starting to think I should look for other signs that it's too cool.

I'va had my BP for a little over 3 weeks now. He shed the first week I got him, and has eaten twice. Everything seems okay now, but I don't wan't any problems in the future. Since winter is coming up I'm a little nervous because the temp in my room drops from the average 69-70. I don't no how much it drops, but it does due to very poor insulation.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BostonMacK

The rule of thumb from what i've learned here is that you want to maintain a constant 90-94/80-84 temp range with 50% humidity (slightly bumped for shed) at all times in your snakes cage. Fluxuations of 10 degrees is not good and needs to be fixed.

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So if one end of my tank is at 90-94 and the other at 80-84, do I need to worry about reducing temps for night time at all?

Also, I don't mean to play devil's advocate, just genuinely trying to learn more, but if the snake goes from one end to the other, wouldn't that do the same as a 10 degrees day/night fluctuation? What is the difference? That the snake chooses rather than is imposed?

Thanks,
Melanie

BTW, thanks for the everyone who gave me info on snake cages. I've looked at reptilebasics.com and Baoafile Plastics. Found some great looking 3x2x1 cages. Now, I'm trying to figure out if they will ship to Canada.

I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) that because snakes are cold blooded you need to provide a means for them to regulate there own body temp. By moving from the cool side to the hot side and vis versa this is possible. If the temp in the entire tank drops 10 degrees and the your snakes body temp is too cool than there is no means for her to warm herself up.

When I searched "Ball Python Temp Drop" or "Ball Python Night Temp" I came across many sites that say a nightime temp drop is normal and up to 10 degrees is acceptable. However, I trust this site, the people on it, and the info given here more than anyone else thus far.


Here are some links to help you get pics up. (It took me a few days to figure it out).

Video
http://www.madwag.com/gallery.html

Sticky
http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=32417

Hi everyone,

Ok, so I have looked at the cages that you have recommended. I have a few more questions.

Basically the cages at ReptileBasics.com, BoaphilePlastics.com and AnimalPlastics.com all look quite the same to me. Is there a company that is better than the others? For example, ReptileBasics.com's cages have a hole at the bottom for a thermostat probe. The other companies don't say if they do. Does that feature make it superior to the others? Or are there features from the other companies that outperform this one? What should I look for? And what features should I include when buying (e.g. a fluorescent light for the UVB rays?)? I have no clue...

Finally, would a 2 (deep) x 3 (long) x 1 (high) cage be large enough? Or should I go with a 2x4x1?

Thanks,
Melanie

PS. I have also looked at the Vison Cages but they don't look as nice in my opinion, if they are better for Sammy though, please let me know and I will go for them - nice or not. I really want what's best for Sammy - price is not an issue.

BigCe hit the nail right on the head as far as temps go. Your snake needs to thermoregulate because they are cold blooded and to do so they need those temp gradients.

As far as those cages go I don't think you can go wrong with either a boaphile or an animal plastics cage. Both get pretty good praise around here. I did read of someone having a huge delay in their expected ship date on a cage but I don't know which company it was.

You don't need any type pf light with your cage. Many people get by with just a UTH that does the trick for the entire cage. I had to use a RHP(Radiant Heat Pannel) in conjunction with my UTH to get my desired ambient temp of about 83-84. With the RHP I barely need to use the UTH yet it does kick on from time to time in the cooler weather.

A 36"w X 24"d tank should be fine. If it were me personally I would try and get it a little taller than 12" but I am sure 12" would be fine. My cage which I will show below is 17" high.

Also keep in mind that a large adult size cage can seriously stress your baby BP out. If you do use a large cage from the get go be sure to clutter it up with stuff in addition to the two standard hides. Crumpled up news paper would be fine for this.

Keep us posted on what you get!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...e9-2-07008.jpg

It's set up a little different now but this picture shows the heat pannel i'm using. I seriously dig these for heat sources and they don't ugly up your cage yet they can be a little expensive.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...il152007-1.jpg

Hello,

Thanks to everyone for the help with the cage for Sammy. I have decided on this one from Reptile Basics, mostly because of the great customer service I've received in helping me figure out what I needed:

http://www.reptilebasics.com/product...cat=257&page=1

I'm also getting a Helix thermostat along with that.

I just have one final question about lighting. They can add a fluorescent light to the cage but it's not a full spectrum light. I had heard that UVA/UVB was recommended for BPs but now I am not so sure... Do BPs require UVA/UVB lighting? If not, should I get a regular fluorescent light to provide light during the day?

Oh and do I need cooler temps at night if I am not intending to breed her?

Thanks again,
Melanie

PS. I will try to get some time to post pics this weekend. :P

Nope BP's don't require any special lighting at all. For viewing you don't want any sort of harsh white light either (remember these are nocturnal, shy snakes) or any lighting that gets hot if they can reach it (thermal burns).

Temps should be stable 24/7, 365 days of the year unless they are adults being cooled for breeding.

You've made a great choice. Rich from Reptile Basics has a well deserved stellar reptutation for product, delivery times and great customer service.

The temps in your tank should be consistant day and night. Just make sure you have a warm side and a cool side. As far as the light goes... I'm not 100% positive, but I don't think they require full spectrum lighting. However, I do have a full spectrum light (Daylight Blue Reptile Bulb from Zoo Med) that I use during the day.



Oopps, guess I type to slow, lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

Nope BP's don't require any special lighting at all. For viewing you don't want any sort of harsh white light either (remember these are nocturnal, shy snakes) or any lighting that gets hot if they can reach it (thermal burns).

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Frankykeno,

Would I need any lighting of any kind in her cage then or just natural light coming into the room from the window is enough? I've heard of people putting their snake on a 12 hour light/12 hour dark routine... does that require a fluorescent in her cage to accomplish this or natural light is ok?

I'm currently using a 75W heat lamp combined with a ReptiGlo UVB 2.0, 12 hours per day, but I won't be able to use those anymore once I get her new cage...

Thanks!!

Personally we just go with natural light for all the snakes. As weather changes we might control that a bit with blinds or an overhead light on more often but basically just natural light coming in the windows. Remember though most of our snakes are in tubs in a fairly easily room just for them. The type of enclosure you are ordering isn't one I'm familar with so direct experience by people that have that enclosure would be more useful to you. When it comes down to it though these are snakes that spend a huge amount of their lives in rats burrows and deep in tunnels in african termite mounds so likely they just aren't designed to need certain light cycles. Some breeders control light cycles going into breeding season, some don't but that's for their breeding group.

Natural light is all your BP needs. Spend the extra money on some gadgets such as a nice infrared temperature gun to spot monitor the surface temps in your new cage. It just adds a little peace of mind which I found very useful.

Is an infrared temp gun better than thermometers with probes? Seems like the thermometers might be better as they would give me a constant reading? Am I wrong?

Thanks. :)

As an former HVAC installer we always found infrared temp guages to be the most accurate tool for measuring temps. They are very good based on the fact it gives you an instant surface temp reading wherever you point it. Point in the cool hide, get an instant temp reading. Point it at the floor of the tank under the substrate to see how hot the bottom of your cage is. Very handy tool to say the least.

As stated already don't worry about a light. Just look at all the people here who use tubs and racks.