What do you look for in holdbacks?

I'm going to be holding back 4 females to breed from these two litters, and I was wondering what everyone looks for in size, temperment/personalty, health, etc.

I have one black hooded, one beige capped, one white with a 2 or 3 barely noticeable cream spots on the back, and the rest are all either bareback beige or hooded beige. Im thinking of holding the black hooded for sure. Ill get pictures up in the morning.

I usually pick one with a pattern than appeals to me, and that looks healthy and robust. I try and start holding them, and those that take to it better usually are the last to get fed off and have a better chance of sticking around.

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Originally Posted by tigerlily

I usually pick one with a pattern than appeals to me, and that looks healthy and robust. I try and start holding them, and those that take to it better usually are the last to get fed off and have a better chance of sticking around.

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Yep, exactly what Christie said!

I hold back all of the females that I produce. When I need males, it's just totally random.

Hope this helps.

-adam

Generally I make sure they are proficient in Bell ringing, and able to fling down stones, timber, and molten lead in defense of the Cathedral in the event of an assault by the thief clans of Paris...

Oh wait; you said "Holdback". Never mind.... go with what Adam said... ;)

I usually go first by the mother of the females I'm considering. I like keeping back females for future breeders from mothers that had no problems birth, give me large and healthy litters and are good tempered rats. A lot of these things seem to be genetic in rats, so a good mother makes for a good daughter type thing. Then I go by size (I like the bigger more robust females) and lastly by look (unless the pattern is related to any genetic concerns).

Thanks everybody. I'm looking a lot closer into rat genetics now, the different colors, and and health problems related with any. Getting different colors and patterns has really caught my attention, and I like reading up on it.

Something that's important to me is temperament and health. I'm trying to decide between all the rats that look almost identical, and its getting harder as i get more attached. But I figure I'll have 4 girls picked out pretty soon, as some have to go this saturday.

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Originally Posted by Gecko Den

Generally I make sure they are proficient in Bell ringing, and able to fling down stones, timber, and molten lead in defense of the Cathedral in the event of an assault by the thief clans of Paris...

Oh wait; you said "Holdback". Never mind.... go with what Adam said... ;)

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:sweeet:

my daughter hand picks all her hold backs... i have no say in the matter. she's 8 and it's her "business" and i'm to stay out of the process... :P but it seems to me that cuteness is definitely a factor in her choosing. also she prefers to pick a new female which doesn't look like the others, so she can tell them apart easier (although she always knows who is who).

oh and if it's a male... she holds back 3... sees which one becomes the most hand tamed... and keeps him. ;)

I am holding back my more robust, solid or Berk rats. I do not breed high-white blood in my colony anymore because of the risk of Megacolon. After reseaching it, I just feel that this is better for the rats, me, and my snakes. I have one more-white female that I can trace back to my original breeders years ago and I am confident that she is not a carrier of megacolon, but I am only breeding her to Berk males (the only ones I have to begin with) to be safe.
I wanted to thank Becky (SatanicIntention) for bringing this whole issue to light. I agree with her, that because of the risk of megacolon and also because they are feeders and not bred for looks; that more solid rats are preferable.
That said; I tend to hold back more females. I never seem to have enough and will be buying a few more Berk girls soon because of this. Once or twice a year I will hold back a male for breeding to replace the males as they get older. My washed-up breeders are eaten by my BCI who does a great job at disposing of them. :)

I breed mostly albino's (I feel worse feeding the colored ones for some reason)so I usually just pick the biggest fastest growers. I will admit though I have a few colored breeders right now that I picked just because I thought they were cool looking. For some reason my albino's actually seem to grow faster and produce better, larger litters than my colored rats. Has anyone else noticed this?

What is the difference between berkshire and banded? The bandeds, I've read, are susceptable to megacolon as well. I know that they ARE different, but I have a hard time really spotting the difference.

I was looking at a poor picture of a berkshire. Scratch that last question. Is it because the bandeds have the blaze on the forehead that leads to increased incidents of megacolon?

Yep there is something apparently related to the blazed faced rats that can increase the megacolon possibilities. Berkies can have blazes as well btw.

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Originally Posted by pfan151

For some reason my albino's actually seem to grow faster and produce better, larger litters than my colored rats. Has anyone else noticed this?

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Most of my Albinos seem to do better than the others. And usually have larger litters too.

I have an albino that was just bred so im hoping she makes us a nice big litter.. this is our test run we have two females and one male, although we are breeding to sell pets so our hairless (possible double rex) male is with one albino and one hooded satin female ill be interested to see what they produce

Hairless to normal will produce all normal-coated rats that carry the hairless gene.

Pink-Eyed Whites (PEW) are not all that easy to adopt out, so unless you're going to quickly use them as Ball Python food, you'll probably be keeping them. Alot of people don't like their red eyes, for some reason.

Also, if you're breeding for pets, do you know the backgrounds of those rats? Pet store rats generally don't live very long lives and they have alot of hereditary problems such as cancer, poor immune systems, predisposition to strokes, pituitary tumors, ear infections and other maladies. I have only ever bred ONE pet store rat, and all of her offspring died within the year from compromised immune systems. She also died around the same time, from the same thing.

If I'm breeding for quality pets, I want to know that line's history at least 5-7 generations back.

For example, right now I have a 4 week old agouti berkshire harley rex dumbo male that has a retained testicle. It's normal sized, but just can't get through the inguinal canal. So he'll be neutered and go to a pet only home. Cryptorchidism is hereditary, so if he were to be bred, that line would be predisposed to that trait, and the offspring could potentially get cancer from that problem(same with dogs and cats).

Personally, I've gone through enough of cancer with my rats. Pet store rats are very predisposed to cancer, and it is usually malignant, rather than benign(squamous cell carcinoma versus benign mammary tumor). Cancer is not fun to deal with at all, and if I can keep it out of my lines and have healthy, long lived rats, then by all means. Some breeders have lines that live in upwards of 4 years and don't have health problems. These are the types of rats you want to be breeding as pets.

I only have one, MAYBE two litters per year, but each litter is going to be registered and pedigreed with the NARR(North American Rat Registry), so I can keep up with their health as they age. Other people will have access to this information as well, so they will know what my lines carry or if the line has any specific health problems associated with it.

Also, albinos have very large litters, possibly in upwards of 20. Are you prepared to have over 30 rats in your house at once? They can't be weaned until they are 4.5-5 weeks old, and then they can be sent out to their respective homes, if they are adopted. You have to be prepared to keep every last one in case adopters fall through or flake out on you.

Becky, how are you able to breed these pedigreed rats when (correct me if I'm wrong) you also breed for feeders? I would think no one in the rat community would accept you or sell to you for that very reason? Or do you not breed for feeders as well?

I don't think I've ever said I breed my rats for feeders. I do breed mice for the snakes.

It's hard enough to get accepted in the rat community as an up and coming new breeder, even if you have great lines with awesome rats. It's very clique-y(I hate that aspect of it and steer clear of those people).

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Originally Posted by SatanicIntention

It's hard enough to get accepted in the rat community as an up and coming new breeder, even if you have great lines with awesome rats. It's very clique-y(I hate that aspect of it and steer clear of those people).

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Oh I was just assuming. Your one of the cool serious breeders then right! :D

Haha, nah, I'm one of the "breeds-very-rarely-because-I-don't-have-much-room-in-mah-house" breeders. I also don't breed them very often because i wait so long to see how the adults are doing health-wise and temperment-wise. I usually only breed a female once or twice and then she's retired. I think I waited until both rats were a year old until I placed them together.

We currently have a litter of three almost-weaned babies. One male is a red-eyed dilute(or red eyed white) harley dumbo. The other male is going to be pet only and neutered because he has a retained testicle, but I mentioned him above in my other post. The female is an agouti lightning blaze dalmation harley rex dumbo(good lord that's long). She'll be getting bred back to her father just to make sure the line doesn't carry MC or anything. It's doubtful though since their lines come from OFR(Odd Fellows Rattery) in Oregon.

If you want to see some awesome rats from an awesome breeder, look at Hilloah's site: www.ratzrealm.com She's out of California and her rats are just wonderful, high quality cuties. One of my males is from her and he's about 2lbs of muscley man-rat. Probably why I named him Angelo, after a mobster, hehe.

I've never heard of the harley locus? If thats right... I know next to nothing with rats. SO what is that?

The original harley rat came from a pet store where she was mistaken for a long-haired hamster. She was pregnant at the time, had those babies, and those babies were then bred together to see if it was genetic.

Needless to say, alot of the harleys are VERY inbred. My male, Rom, is around 20+% inbred, so I am trying to outcross as much as possible, while still keeping the line going in the direction I want it to go(Harley, Harley Dwarf, Harley Rex, and marked harley/harley-rex/dwarf, etc). I am only breeding the one female back to Rom to ensure that there aren't problems in the line. It will also let me know if he's the one carrying the blaze/high white/dalmationing, or if the mother is. Rom is just a blue agouti mismarked bareback with a headspot, but lord knows what he carries in his genes(they are Wranglers, if anyone wants to know, LOL). I don't have his pedigree as of yet, since the breeder who bred the litter, went nuts and vanished. Yay...

Edit: If you wanted background info on the Harley gene and it's origin, you can look at www.skyclyde.com

Just want to point out that blazed rats are considered "high white" but hooded are not.