In or Out?

Should I feed it in or out of its cage. So confusing. Everyone is telling me different lol.

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Originally Posted by trumetal96

Should I feed it in or out of its cage. So confusing. Everyone is telling me different lol.

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Feed outside of the cage, that way you don't have to worry about your snake eating substrate while feeding in the cage. It's a bit of a hassle, but I would recommend it, especially if your feeding live.

IMO, depends on the snake and why you have it.

Have you fed out of cage before?

Feeding out of the cage will also help lessen cage aggression

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Originally Posted by bearhart

IMO, depends on the snake and why you have it.

Have you fed out of cage before?

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no, i just picked it up today. unless this is another one of their lies, they said i should wait about 3 or 4 days so it can get used to its new home

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Originally Posted by trumetal96

no, i just picked it up today. unless this is another one of their lies, they said i should wait about 3 or 4 days so it can get used to its new home

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waiting is good. I would wait at least 1 week before trying to feed.

I have fed my BP both ways. I started out-of-cage, tried in-cage, and decided to go back to out-of-cage. Personally, I found that feeding in-cage had a significant effect of his behavior.

My snake is a strong feeder and so he feeds out-of-cage well. I can feed him quickly, under light and under supervision, and put him back immediately with no problems. My theory is that, for the same reason, feeding him in his cage brought out alot of aggression. This was not "hateful" aggression but simply eagerness to eat. some snakes won't eat while being watched or will regurg if disturbed during or after eating.

Ultimately, you'll have to determine for yourself. Feeding in-cage is easiest. I would recommend doing that but if your snake is always coming out for food and going it strike position when you open the cage then I would recommend trying out of cage feeding. I would bet your pet store fed out of cage and you could start with that relatively easily. do that until you get a routine and then try in-cage and see how that affects things.

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Originally Posted by Nagini88

Feeding out of the cage will also help lessen cage aggression

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I disagree :gj:

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Originally Posted by nathanledet

I disagree :gj:

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I dont' know how universally true or untrue it is. However, I have found that it is most definately true for my BP.

My *opinion* on this is that the decision most definately affects the snake's behavior. In fact, I think that is easy to determine from reading posts by in-cage feeders here. Do I think it makes some bloodthirsty monster out of your BP? No, definately not. I think that a few precautions are sufficient to make it safe.

My personal experience has been that, when feeding out of cage, my BP *absolutely never* displayed any feeding related behavior while in cage. This, of course, changed when I switched to in-cage feeding. Also, many members here describe eager behavior during feeding time - which includes the snapping up of rodents practically before they hit the substrate. I'm seriously skeptical that you'll find an out-of-cage feeder that does anything like this. However, all of these out-of-cage feeding members seem very happy so that makes it totally OK.

So you see, ultimately its what fits you best. All I can say is be aware of the affects.

It depends entirely on your preference and your snake. I have my 3 month old BP and my 13 month old corn: the BP eats outside her cage because the decor would get in the way otherwise and I find it easier to do since I clean her cage while she's eating. My corn, however, was raised being fed in his cage and will not eat outside...so I had to modify my techniques to fit what he was used to. Maybe some day, once he's used to handling, I'll get him to eat outside so I can clean his tank easier, but for now I have to do what is best for him to keep him healthy.

Bottom line: If your snake is more relaxed and doesn't care where it goes as long as it gets food, you can feed it outside for peace of mind. If it's really shy, doesn't like handling much, or is one of a large collection then leave it in it's home cage.

All of my ball pythons feed in their tubs....I've never been bitten, I don't mess with them on feeding day when they are all business.:)

Your decision will also depend a lot on the number of snakes you have and where they live. If you have a few snakes and they are set up in cages that have lots of stuff in them to make them look nice (climbing branches, vines, greenery, etc), you may want to feed outside the cage. On the other hand, if you have many snakes and they are in tubs in racks, feeding outside the cage can become a real hassel and time consumer.


We have our snakes in tubs in racks and feed in the tub. Never have had a problem with one eating substrate or becoming "cage aggressive".

Good luck with your decision!

I agree with Jason and Alice. The only days my snakes are aggressive is when they smell the food thawing...any other day, i can reach my hand in and pet them like a pup :gj:

Bear, I'm a tad confused why you wouldn't want your snakes snapping up their prey before it hits the bottom of the tub? How do you come to the conclusion that #1 this is a good thing to have a less than aggressive feeding response and #2 that this behaviour is universal and related specifically to one feeding method over another?

Look all I can do is go by our experience feeding 21 snakes per week from three different species, that are anywhere from 07 recent hatchlings to fully mature adults, so it's a reasonably broad group. We feed all of them in their home enclosures and always have. The only exception is the milksnake due to the more "busy" nature of her display type enclosure. I think it's about owner preference really but I just cannot see how it's going to cut down on my chances of getting bit to move a hungry snake into a feeding tub, then move it back afterwards when it's still very likely in a hyper feeding mode (many snakes stay this way for hours after eating and it's quite normal).

Personally I'm not about to put my hands on a 3,200 gram hungry female ball python LOL. We feed week after week, multiple snakes in their homes, and have never been bit due to a feeding response directed at us. In fact I've been bit only once while handling a highly stressed adult rescue and that's to be expected really.

Yeh Joanna, I think it's the best feeling in the world when you crack that enclosure to see a snake in the "S" position ready and waiting for food...it's such a great feeling to see them snatch it right up.

Personally, I feel that no one can give you a real answer to this. This would be dependent upon your individual snake with a little of your preference factored in as well. The answer would really be whatever makes your snake the most comfortable and enables it to be a good eater. This is one of those issues where you may have to experiment a little bit, although if you just brought home you should try feeding it how it has been feeding so that you can have it be well established eating for you and then you can try changing it a little. I have heard people talk about both feeding in and out of the snakes cage, and diferent people have different results (which is dependent upon the personality of the snake), some snakes prefer one way over the other, and there are some snakes that don't really care...as long as there is food they will eat. Different people will tell you different things depending on how their snakes prefer it done, there is no right or wrong, the answer is only what your snake prefers.

Well I thought that there was nothing better than the feeling when my girl snatches her rat before it 'hits' the bottom of the tub. The only time she's gone into a "strike" position on me is when I check on her about half an hour after her meal just to make sure it's all gone and she's settled. And I might add that I don't even open the tub, I just lift the towel a bit and she's got her head out ready for another rat... I attribute that only to the fact that the enclosure still smells of rat, so when you lift the towel she thinks another rat is coming.

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Originally Posted by bearhart

I dont' know how universally true or untrue it is. However, I have found that it is most definately true for my BP.

My *opinion* on this is that the decision most definately affects the snake's behavior. In fact, I think that is easy to determine from reading posts by in-cage feeders here. Do I think it makes some bloodthirsty monster out of your BP? No, definately not. I think that a few precautions are sufficient to make it safe.

My personal experience has been that, when feeding out of cage, my BP *absolutely never* displayed any feeding related behavior while in cage. This, of course, changed when I switched to in-cage feeding. Also, many members here describe eager behavior during feeding time - which includes the snapping up of rodents practically before they hit the substrate. I'm seriously skeptical that you'll find an out-of-cage feeder that does anything like this. However, all of these out-of-cage feeding members seem very happy so that makes it totally OK.

So you see, ultimately its what fits you best. All I can say is be aware of the affects.

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Thanks for all of your opinions. i will test both ways and then go with what the snake likes.

why not go half and half....

have the snake half in the enclosure and half hanging out. try feeding that way, it's the best of both worlds.

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Originally Posted by Kagez28

why not go half and half....

have the snake half in the enclosure and half hanging out. try feeding that way, it's the best of both worlds.

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Yeah he'll surely be dining in heaven if you try feeding him Sushi as well :rolleyes:

:rofl:

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Originally Posted by nathanledet

Yeh Joanna, I think it's the best feeling in the world when you crack that enclosure to see a snake in the "S" position ready and waiting for food...it's such a great feeling to see them snatch it right up.

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Here, here!!! As for swallowing substrate...you think in the wild someone is going to put down newspaper as a placemat for dinner???? If snake stomach acid can eat fur and bone, then wood probably isn't an issue.

I've had a time or two when a little twig was stuck, but they just scrapped against the side of the tank, or their hide until it was out. If it didn't come out, I'd gently remove it.

I've had a couple balls who refused to eat after being picked up and moved (and then moved again...increasing the chances and dangers of triggering a regurge) but if I leave 'em, they strike just fine.

For the aggression...the only time I was tagged on feeding day was when I reached in for the water bowl 1/2 hr after feeding him ....a SFE if ever there was one.

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Originally Posted by JBallPython

All of my ball pythons feed in their tubs....I've never been bitten, I don't mess with them on feeding day when they are all business.:)

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You bet'cha!! Feeding day is JUST that...nothing more (unless pouring in water). All handling is after digestion days and the rest of the week.

No biting, no problems. Feeding Day is all business and they're all fed and eating IN their tubs or tanks.

Is it ok to handle the snake a day after I fed it? since its just a baby.

From Bearhart's post:


This, of course, changed when I switched to in-cage feeding. Also, many members here describe eager behavior during feeding time - which includes the snapping up of rodents practically before they hit the substrate. I'm seriously skeptical that you'll find an out-of-cage feeder that does anything like this.


That is not true for all....

With Baby, I was feeding her in a separate tub, live and I wanted to isolate her to encourage her to eat. After we changed her temps and got the husbandry right, she DID display the typical hunting and snatching WHEN SHE WAS IN THE SEP. TUB.

One reason why a snake moved to another tub and then fed may NOT exhibit normal hunting behaviour is b/c:

1. the smells are different in the other tub,
2. they've been physically jostled in the move and therefore lightly stressed,
3. they are ambush hunters, and now they're unprepared/no longer in hunt mode.


Just my :2cent: and thoughts to ponder.

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Originally Posted by trumetal96

Is it ok to handle the snake a day after I fed it? since its just a baby.

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Safer to wait two days (no matter the age of the snake) and let it have a chance to digest before handling it again. :)

ok, thanks

I started out w/ my first bp feeding out of tank. That lasted for about 8 mos and I went to feeding in cage and have never looked back. My other two year olds I have always fed in the tubs. I have never been bit or even come close even on feeding day and right after feeding. I stick my hand in to give fresh water etc w/ no problems right after feeding. And my two young ones are very aggressive feeders I can hardly open the tub without them jumping out to hit the mouse. I also wash my hands well after handling the rodents.


As for the eating of substrate my Ozzy when he was in a AP cage ate reptibark all the time and never had a problem. They can digest bones,hair etc and pc of wood is not a problem.

Dang - I've been busy and missed alot of a good thread... I'l reply anway.

I agree that a good feeding response is a great thing. I also feel like I understand the pros and cons of each method now. I've chosen to feed my BP out and I feed my JCP in. Corn snake is still up in the air but I'm leaning towards out because last feed he got this little peice of wood stuck in his mouth during the feed and it took him a while to get it out.

This is a weird thing because my JCP is a strong feeder and I would consder him far more aggressive than my BP. But he seems to chill right back out after eating and doesn't get all wound up on feeding day until he actually sees the rat enter. So, it just seems to work.

Now, with my BP he gets all wound up and is clearly heavily affected by the residuals smells. He cruises his cage looking in every nook and cranny (or sits in tense watching positions) for a couple of days after eating and regularly tracks me. Last weekend I switched back to out of cage feeding and those behaviors stopped just like that.

So I think that two important things to consider are a) what's important to the keeper, and b) the snake's personality. I get a bit frusterated when some people act like it doesn't make a difference because I think it does (or at least can). Sometimes the rationale for out-of-cage feeding is made out to be a sort of myth. I'd have to say that, at least for some snakes, the rationale does apply.

One thing is for sure is that it's all speculation until you try it both ways. In the past I've argued on the subject and stressed over which people were telling me 'wrong' and whether or not I was doing things the right way. Now that I actually have some experience with both methods under my belt, conflicting advice on the subject just doesn't stress me out as much. I think that you can save yourself alot of grief by getting good experienced advice, and trying to do things correctly the first time. But, I also think that its good to balance it with the experience that comes from trying different ways yourself to get what I'd guess you'd call "hands-on" experience.

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Originally Posted by jotay

As for the eating of substrate my Ozzy when he was in a AP cage ate reptibark all the time and never had a problem. They can digest bones,hair etc and pc of wood is not a problem.

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I was under the impression that impaction may not happen very often but, when it does, it can be deadly. I recall a member here posting that he had a snake die from impaction.

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Originally Posted by bearhart

So I think that two important things to consider are a) what's important to the keeper, and b) the snake's personality. I get a bit frusterated when some people act like it doesn't make a difference because I think it does (or at least can). Sometimes the rationale for out-of-cage feeding is made out to be a sort of myth. I'd have to say that, at least for some snakes, the rationale does apply.

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Your first post in this thread was a pretty good post....it presented both sides of the issue with anecdotal evidence of your own personal experience. That's fine. It's good to say, "Here's what I personally went through....and here is the other side if the issue as well."

But then you reverted to style and insisted that all feedings inside enclosures will lead to a more aggressive overall behavior. You backed off a bit later on by admitting that it "CAN" affect it, which also implies that it may not...but it's still a very strong stance to insist on a high risk of aggressive behavior simply because you drop a rat in the enclosure once a week....while at the same time being critical of those who insist it doesn't matter.

Why is it your ONE episode of limited experience outweighs on the scale of credibility literally hundreds and hundreds of other "Inside" feedings over a span of decades that show no behavioral change whatsoever?

Your experience is important; I don't discount that. But that one, rare, exception to the rule (which may or may not actually be an exception because there's not enough evidence either way yet) does not negate the argument that feeding inside the enclosure is perfectly safe and does not promote overall aggressiveness toward the keeper.

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Originally Posted by JLC

Your first post in this thread was a pretty good post....it presented both sides of the issue with anecdotal evidence of your own personal experience. That's fine. It's good to say, "Here's what I personally went through....and here is the other side if the issue as well."

But then you reverted to style and insisted that all feedings inside enclosures will lead to a more aggressive overall behavior. You backed off a bit later on by admitting that it "CAN" affect it, which also implies that it may not...but it's still a very strong stance to insist on a high risk of aggressive behavior simply because you drop a rat in the enclosure once a week....while at the same time being critical of those who insist it doesn't matter.

Why is it your ONE episode of limited experience outweighs on the scale of credibility literally hundreds and hundreds of other "Inside" feedings over a span of decades that show no behavioral change whatsoever?

Your experience is important; I don't discount that. But that one, rare, exception to the rule (which may or may not actually be an exception because there's not enough evidence either way yet) does not negate the argument that feeding inside the enclosure is perfectly safe and does not promote overall aggressiveness toward the keeper.

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Well I never meant to say anything even close to "all feedings inside enclosures will lead to a more aggressive overall behavior". Or, if I did I admit that I was over generalizing. I'm not sure if you are referring to this thread or another but I have been trying very hard to say that I think its a matter of the keeper's preference and snake's personality. I've been most adament about the issue of whether or not the decision has any ramifications - not whether or not it was right or wrong.

I admit to tempering my language on the subject more. The recent threads showed alot of posts with more detailed accounts of trying it both ways and such. I guess you could call it "backing off" but all I'm trying to do is reconcile the differences and accept what other people have said. So, I can only conclude that it must be that my BP is fairly unique and that its better to say "it CAN have an effect" rather than "it DOES have an effect".

I think you're being kind of hard on me, really. Alot of the people that feed in-cage posted in this very thread that they take special care when dealing with the snake on feeding day because it is expecting a meal to be placed in the cage. Are you saying that you think these snakes would act the exact same way if they were fed out of cage? (Once again, please keep in mind that I'm not debating the pros and cons of either method. I'm most interested in establishing what those pros and cons might actually be).

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Originally Posted by bearhart

I've been most adament about the issue of whether or not the decision has any ramifications - not whether or not it was right or wrong.

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And I'm just saying that to insist that there ARE ramifications is a bit of a stretch based on a solitary, limited experience...when 99.9% of other experience out there says otherwise.

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So, I can only conclude that it must be that my BP is fairly unique and that its better to say "it CAN have an effect" rather than "it DOES have an effect".

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That's pretty much been my point from the beginning. It MIGHT have an effect...in rare instances and under unique circumstances, based on your personal experience.

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I think you're being kind of hard on me, really. Alot of the people that feed in-cage posted in this very thread that they take special care when dealing with the snake on feeding day because it is expecting a meal to be placed in the cage. Are you saying that you think these snakes would act the exact same way if they were fed out of cage? (Once again, please keep in mind that I'm not debating the pros and cons of either method. I'm most interested in establishing what those pros and cons might actually be).

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I don't think I'm being "hard" on you. It's just that if you take a very strong stance on the potential ramifications of feeding inside the enclosure, based on a singular event...when compared to the vast experience that says otherwise...people are going to expect you to back up your words with concrete evidence, or back off that stance and admit that maybe you are being too hard on everyone else who insist that it makes no difference to the snake's overall behavior.

As for being careful on feeding day....I can't imagine being otherwise! And I can't imagine trying to life MY ball python out of her tub on feeding day because she IS looking for food. But any other time, she's very easy to get out and has never shown any tendency at all toward striking at me.

And all this time I was told I had a "normal" ball python... :P

Different folks, different strokes. Different snakes, different shakes.

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Originally Posted by bearhart

I was under the impression that impaction may not happen very often but, when it does, it can be deadly. I recall a member here posting that he had a snake die from impaction.

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Impaction can be deadly. If your snake happens to swallow a small pc of bark or two the juices in it's digestive system usually will break it down, after all it breaks bones , hair etc. I know it was never a problem for Ozzy when I had him on bark and from time to time he swallowed a few pcs here and there. But it is always better to be safe than sorry so if that is a concern then put down a pc of paper when feeding.

I've never fed out of the enclosure, I feed all 17 of mine in the enclosure. I have even been known to quickly clean out an enclosure 3 or 4 hours after feeding if someone has turned over a water dish, or defecated (I personally won't let them lay in it overnight, and handling of them is under a minute, no more than moving them if I fed out of the enclosure).


I have not experienced any aggressive behavior in that window of time after feeding. None of mine cruise for days on end looking for prey from residual smells, and none of mine are cage aggressive. I've got a pretty laid back crew. I can't really relate to Bear's experience (not suggesting that his experience isn't valid), because I've not ever observed the behavior that he describes with any of my 17 permanent members of my colony.

The ONLY time I experienced cage aggression was with two rescues who were clearly neglected (severly malnourished and underweight) and once they figured out that meals were coming regularly and not once every three or four months, they were on high alert. However, I suspect they would react the same way whether fed in or out of their enclosure, they were THAT malnourished. Once rehabilitated, they went on to their forever home, but I have no doubt that once they had a chance to acclimate properly and were satiated and up to their proper weight, that they would act no differently than the rest of my crew.

I don't know about you, but I don't dare sticking a hand near any of my snakes on feeding day! I prefer to keep my fingers.

Awe man, who resurfaced the thread?

No need to feed outside of tank I have for a fact tried it and Have been bitten several times and never once while feeding inside of the enclosure.

I'm feeding in the enclosure. It's easier and perfect as long as you do it right.
Also makes the chances of getting bitten none because you don't have to pick up the snake to put it back into the enclosure.

I couldn't vote...I do both ;)

I feed 2 of my BP's in their enclosures and my 3rd in a feeding tank. Pie won't eat in her own enclosure. I've tried numerous times. No luck. But as soon as she is in her feeding tank it's all good :P

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Originally Posted by Bright202

Feed outside of the cage, that way you don't have to worry about your snake eating substrate while feeding in the cage. It's a bit of a hassle, but I would recommend it, especially if your feeding live.

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If you're worried about your snake eating substrate then you may want to reconsider what you're putting your snake on. And As far as in our out. I don't think it matters, I've done both and have had no problems doing one or the other.

Oh Yeah, as a matter of a fact one of my snakes won't eat in her cage, I don't know or care why but she's actually fairly aggressive in general (she bites, a lot) but she will only eat prekilled or F/T rats in a dark box.

I do out, not that I think there si nothing wrong with feeding in but feeding out seems to offer more advantages and the risks are easily reduced.

Advantages: Can't ingest substrate, classicly conditions the snake in a way that makes handling safer, can not harm itself on decorations, pray has no where to hide, gives you time for quick spot cleaning and cage maitnence

Disadvantages: handleing during feeding can cause a regurge (I reduce this by having the snake go back in the main tank voluntarily), Less convienint for owner (I reduce this by only having one, but i see where breeders and collecters come from)

Its up to you and your snake just make sure you make an educated decision

MY normal BP , George, has pretty much dictated his feeding preferences, changing them several times in the past year. I started out feeding live in a seperate box. After several feedings he refused so I tried live outside his enclosure. That was fine for awhile then he started refusing. So I tried F/T in his enclosure. He was satisfied for several months then again refusal. Back to live and in his enclosure went fine for another few feedings. Since then I have 2 BCIs. I feed the BP F/T in his tank and if he refuses after a few hours one of the Boas get it. (They will eat anything!) I give him a live mouse until the next week and try again. He takes F/T about every other feeding. My new baby BP still takes live mice but will be trying to switch her over in a couple more feedings. I have come to the realization that BPs or at least my George dictates type, when, how and such that he will or will not eat! Spoiled, of course, but it didn't take him long to get me trained!!

i am a novice, but has anyone aver done what i do. it seems to work ok. I give my bp the rat outside of the tank. then while he is killing the rat i gently place him back in his enclousre. he eats great, and there is no agression. just my idea.

I personally usually feed in the enclosure. A few things to consider before you make the final word.

I use newspaper, do you?
I have noticed most juvie balls feed really well for me if I feed them in front of their hide and do not mess with them before I feed. They feed straight out of the hide.

I personally feel this is more your personal preference than anything.

well i feed outside just by preference and this is the firs time i fed my snake and she ate fine so i'll continue that way JMO

I personally feed live in the tank. My BP does not like to be moved one bit after eatting, and I do not want to take the risk of it coming back up by trying to move her. She eats and slides right into one of her hides. Altho I do remove some items such as the fake plants and her log, so she has more room to do what she needs to make a clean kill. Once she eats and enters the hide, I place everything back in and leave her be for 48hrs or more. :)

Using aspen, I feed four out. The two I feed in are my more difficult feeders. Still use aspen, just cover it in the morning with cardboard and feed that night.