Give Me an Example #1

I'm trying to grasp this dominant, recessive, co-dominant thing and I'm trying to figure out outcomes and such. So, someone give me a cross between any two morphs (you can start out easy if you like, since this is my first try at this). It can be any kind of pairing. The pairing can be between hets, normals, or homozygous individuals. I will try and figure out the outcome of the pairing and you can tell me if I get it right. Its kinda like a little fun quiz for me. :) (I love learning genetics)

ok i'll go easy ^_^. Bumble Bee spider ( Pastel x spider) crossed with another pastel

100% Het Pied X 100% Het Pied=

Pinstripe x lesser platty = kingpin

Pastel x pinstripe = lemon blast

lemon blast x bumble bee = Nameless?? :)

Purrrfect9-

Hmm. Well, the Spider part of the first snake is Dominant, the Pastel is Co-Dom. Wouldn't you get more Bumblebee Spiders and Pastels? (Not sure of the percentage chance of each because I'm not sure how to set up a punnet square for something like this. Any advice on how to do so will be greatly loved)

Drago-

With two 100% Het Pieds, you would get offspring with a 25% chance of being normal, 50% chance of being Hets, and 25% chance of being Pied. Because normals and hets look alike they would be considered 66% chance for het. Am I right?

And JoshJP7, I have no idea. :D :P

cinny x cinny= super cinny
cinny x pastel= pewter

juddb, not sure what you are asking.

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Originally Posted by Jay_Bunny

Purrrfect9-

Hmm. Well, the Spider part of the first snake is Dominant, the Pastel is Co-Dom. Wouldn't you get more Bumblebee Spiders and Pastels? (Not sure of the percentage chance of each because I'm not sure how to set up a punnet square for something like this. Any advice on how to do so will be greatly loved)

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Sure, I'll make something up on Paint ans photobucket it I guess. Give me a few minutes. But you have the potential of getting Spiders, Bee's pastels, normals, and killer bee's.

Killer Bees! *drool* Hmm, I'd like to see how the pairing of those two you have add up to those morphs.

yup that is right

Drago-

I know that one because I wanted to know how my 100% Pied male had the potential of giving pieds. Pieds are also simple recessive if I'm not mistaken so when you are dealing with just pieds (no combos) you are not having to factor in other traits.

I wasnt asking... i thought we were giving examples of different designer morphs..... :confused:

Nope the game is....you give me two snakes and I will try and figure out the outcome. This is to help me figure out the genetics of ball python morphs. I tend to learn by example and practice, rather than reading.

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Originally Posted by Drago

100% Het Pied X 100% Het Pied=

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wouldn't that be 50% het & 50% albino?

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Originally Posted by shhhli

wouldn't that be 50% het & 50% albino?

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Nope, he was right. 66% possible b/c 2/3 could be possible het.

What about spider x albino?

Bah, it wont let me edit my post, but here's a quick chart that I made. I'm pretty sure this is how it goes, but I think I might be missing a trait on the regular pastel's side, cause I think you're only supposed to get a 1/16 chance of a killer bee, not a 1/8.
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r...eegenetics.jpg

Results-
3/8 Bumblebee's
1/8 killerbee
2/8 Pastel
1/8 super pastel
1/8 normal

ivylea77 -

Spider X Albino. Well Spider is Dominant, and has the potential of throwing normals, spiders, and supers? Albino X Spider would give you normals, spiders, supers and some het albinos, right?

Purrrfect9 -

This may sound stupid, but how do you get the Sp, SP, Ps, ect. What do they stand for as far as traits?

Here's a fun one.

double het clown pied x double het clown pied

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Originally Posted by Jay_Bunny

ivylea77 -

Spider X Albino. Well Spider is Dominant, and has the potential of throwing normals, spiders, and supers? Albino X Spider would give you normals, spiders, supers and some het albinos, right?

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They have not found a super form of spider yet ( and by now there is a good chance that there is not a super form) an albinox spider would give you normals, het albino normals, and het albino spiders i believe

As far as the bee punnet square goes... I dont think its possible to get a killer bee out of a pastel x spider breeding... Wouldnt it have to be a super pastel to make a killer bee? I might be wrong but thats what I always thought it took

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Originally Posted by JoshJP7

As far as the bee punnet square goes... I dont think its possible to get a killer bee out of a pastel x spider breeding... Wouldnt it have to be a super pastel to make a killer bee? I might be wrong but thats what I always thought it took

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a pastel x spider breeding could give you bumble bee's, but the pairing that I had made was a bumblebee x pastel, which can make a killer bee. You have a higher chance of getting more killer bee's if you do a bumblebee x super pastel cross, but it can still be done with a pastel x bumblebee

Ah, see I did not know there were no super spiders. I will make a note of that in my little genetics thing I'm putting together.

So a ....

Spider X Albino will give you normals, het albino normals, and het albino spiders. Gotcha. I can see now that the cross would not give you spiders, since the other snake has no spider trait. (Ah I am starting to understand bit by bit) :rockon:

Spiders & normal-appearing animals all het for albino. I'm pretty sure no supers, though. Good job. I'm learning, too:D

Man, I wish we would get into the genetics portion of Bio soon so I can remember how those punnets go with multiple traits. I used to rule at those. People in class were asking me for help with those and now I've gone and forgotten.

Lemme see about the double het clown pied crossing. Might take me a bit.

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Originally Posted by Purrrfect9

They have not found a super form of spider yet ( and by now there is a good chance that there is not a super form) an albinox spider would give you normals, het albino normals, and het albino spiders i believe

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I'm fairly certain there is no such thing as a het for spider :D

Because the Spider trait is dominant over the normal, all albino hets would carry the spider appearance, am I correct?

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Originally Posted by Jay_Bunny

Ah, see I did not know there were no super spiders. I will make a note of that in my little genetics thing I'm putting together.

So a ....

Spider X Albino will give you normals, het albino normals, and het albino spiders. Gotcha. I can see now that the cross would not give you spiders, since the other snake has no spider trait. (Ah I am starting to understand bit by bit) :rockon:

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You would get spiders b/c it is a dominant trait.

Wait....right. Because the Albino is homozygous recessive, it does not carry the normal trait and therefore no normals will be given. All resulting offspring would simply show the Spider appearance with the potential of giving Albinos.

Now if you were to cross two spiders, would you then have the potential of normals?

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Originally Posted by Jay_Bunny

Purrrfect9 -

This may sound stupid, but how do you get the Sp, SP, Ps, ect. What do they stand for as far as traits?

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Ok, this might sound a bit confusing, but it's much easier for me to explain it in person than through typing, lol. Basically, every single gene is located in a specific spot on the Chromosomes. These genes are also called alleles. Alleles are the specific traits that are passed on, like in humans hair color, eye color, and so on. for snakes it's the same, scale color, scale pattern.
Every organism needs to have 2 alleles of the same kind to make a pair. These alleles are split through the process of meiosis, which is the creation of sex cells. The alleles of the parents are selected at random to go into an egg/sperm cell, which is where the Sp, SP, Ps, ect. comes from. In order to have an accurate representation of the genetics, you need to visualize every possible outcome of the allele pairings from both sets of parents. A 'het' bumblebee spider (Ss) has the possibility of passing on the genetics of the spider pattern (capital S) and the normal pattern (little s), as well as the genetics of pastel color (Capital P) and normal color (little p). Since this is a 'double trait' both one allele for spider and one allele for pastel fits into one of the boxes, and is thus crossed with the alleles from the other parent, which would give the offspring one full set of alleles.

Sorry if I confused you even more. The easiest way for me to explain it is through Biology stuff, and if you already knew that much, my bad as well, lol.

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Originally Posted by ivylea77

I'm fairly certain there is no such thing as a het for spider :D

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It's the heterozygous dominant genetics. Ss= heterzygous dominant SS=homozygous dominant. A heterozygous dominant animal (such as spiders) can still be Heterozygous because they carry both the normal and spider gene. People tend to not call them 'hets' because they have a dominant trait

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Originally Posted by Jay_Bunny

Because the Spider trait is dominant over the normal, all albino hets would carry the spider appearance, am I correct?

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Not necessarily. If you had a heterozygous dominant spider you would have 1/2 spider 100% het albinos and 1/2 normal 100% het albinos. if you had a homozygous dominant spider, then yes you would have all spider 100% het albinos

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Originally Posted by Purrrfect9

It's the heterozygous dominant genetics. Ss= heterzygous dominant SS=homozygous dominant. A heterozygous dominant animal (such as spiders) can still be Heterozygous because they carry both the normal and spider gene. People tend to not call them 'hets' because they have a dominant trait

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Be that as it may, it gets very confusing to some learning b/c now they think the have a possible het. for spider. Which we know is completly impossible.

As for breeding spider to spider, no super form has yet to be found.

But the albino doesn't carry the normal allele does it. It is recessive so in order for it to display the albino coloration, it would be homozygous recessive. The spider, if het, would carry only one allele for normal, right? Therefore you couldn't have normals. I'm probably all messed up on this, right?

And I understand there are no 'hets for' spiders. All normal looking snakes would not carry the spider gene because the spider trait is dominant over normal coloration and pattern, therefore if you have a spider, you will know by the snake's coloration and pattern.

dbl het for pied lavender albino x dbl het for pied lavender albino?

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Originally Posted by ivylea77

Be that as it may, it gets very confusing to some learning b/c now they think the have a possible het. for spider. Which we know is completly impossible.

As for breeding spider to spider, no super form has yet to be found.

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Yes, but if you really want to learn the genetics of any animal, you MUST know all of the little quirks of the trade ^_^. It's really not that hard once you get used to it though. Every gene has a homozygous and heterozygous formYou just need to pay extra attention to which genes are recessive and which genes are dominant. Genetics are probably my 2nd fave thing next to anatomy/physiology though. You couldn't get me to touch my Chem II class with a 10 ft pole right now though.

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Originally Posted by Jay_Bunny

But the albino doesn't carry the normal allele does it. It is recessive so in order for it to display the albino coloration, it would be homozygous recessive. The spider, if het, would carry only one allele for normal, right? Therefore you couldn't have normals. I'm probably all messed up on this, right?

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haha ya you are, lemmie get another punnit square going on for that.

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Originally Posted by ivylea77

Nope, he was right. 66% possible b/c 2/3 could be possible het.

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*smacks face with palm*
i thought he said 100% pied x 100% ALBINO

haha, i need better glasses

Purrrfect9 -

Thanks for putting up with me. When I want to learn something, I'm sooo full of questions. Genetics has always been an interest of mine, and during Bio class last year, I had all 3 of my lab partners asking me to tutor them in the genetics portion of class. Too bad I don't retain information. lol. I have to study something over and over and over to get it. Thats kinda what I'm doing in this thread.

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r...eegenetics.jpg

Ok, with this, from what I understand...

the Sp means it has the Spider pattern and carries the potential for pastel, correct? Because the S is capital it means its dominant and therefore shows. Little p means recessive and that it is only potential unless coupled with another little p. Correct?

Little s means it has the potential for normal, but will not show unless coupled with another little s. Big S means it shows the spider pattern. So a Ss is a 'het' spider. Because spider is dominant, it shows the spider markings.

Pp means it shows the pastel coloration, and has the potential for normal, right? So two little p's brings normal coloration, and two P's give pastel. Pastel is co-dom thought right? Does that mean it shows up even in het form? and homozygous dominant will give you a super pastel, right? (I'm a little confused on this one)

But lets say you have a SsPP, would that be a Killer Bee, or just a Bumblebee? Or neither?

(^ I wasn't looking at the punnet when I asked about the SsPP, but now that I look, I think I'm right.)

Jay-
It's no problem at all. When I can explain this stuff to other people it helps keep it fresh in my head and also helps me to understand/learn it better ^_^

Here's the chart for Spider X Albino crossing. This is a very good example as to why you should know if your spider is a homozygous or heterozygous spider.
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r...binoSpider.jpg

If it's a heterozygous spider, you would get 1/2 spider 100% het for albinos and 1/2 normal 100% het for albinos. If it's a homozygous you would get all spider 100% het for albinos

Oh I get it now. Because the albino is lending only one recessive gene, the normal from the spider dominates it, causing a normal. But if you have A spider that is homozygous there is no normal trait to give and all resulting offspring are therefore spiders.

Am I getting it now?

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Originally Posted by Jay_Bunny

Ok, with this, from what I understand...

the Sp means it has the Spider pattern and carries the potential for pastel, correct? Because the S is capital it means its dominant and therefore shows. Little p means recessive and that it is only potential unless coupled with another little p. Correct?

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You have the S part correct. The P's and p's for pastel work in the same manner as the spider genetics do. p=normal coloration in that certain chromosome 'slot'. s= normal patter for that chromosome 'slot'. But, if you get Pp= pastel, and PP= super pastel.

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Little s means it has the potential for normal, but will not show unless coupled with another little s. Big S means it shows the spider pattern. So a Ss is a 'het' spider. Because spider is dominant, it shows the spider markings.

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Exactly

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Pp means it shows the pastel coloration, and has the potential for normal, right? So two little p's brings normal coloration, and two P's give pastel. Pastel is co-dom thought right? Does that mean it shows up even in het form? and homozygous dominant will give you a super pastel, right? (I'm a little confused on this one)

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This is where Co-Doms can get confusing. two big P's will give you a super pastel. a Homozygous dominant trait for the pastel will give you the super form. This holds true for Mojave's and Lessers ( for the BEL) as well. But if you have a Pp, you will just have a regular pastel ( like the lemon, or graziani or w/e)

[Quote}But lets say you have a SsPP, would that be a Killer Bee, or just a Bumblebee? Or neither?

(^ I wasn't looking at the punnet when I asked about the SsPP, but now that I look, I think I'm right.)[/QUOTE]
Yes you would have the Killer Bee with those genetics. Since it only takes 1 dominant allele for the spider trait to show up, you can have Ss, but in order to get the "Killer Bee' part of the Bumble bee, you have to have both dominant alleles for the pastel to show up ( PP), essentially it being the superpastel with the spider pattern.

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Originally Posted by Jay_Bunny

Oh I get it now. Because the albino is lending only one recessive gene, the normal from the spider dominates it, causing a normal. But if you have A spider that is homozygous there is no normal trait to give and all resulting offspring are therefore spiders.

Am I getting it now?

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:rockon: exactly!!! See, it just takes a little bit of practice to get going ^_^ And just think, we're not getting into the double recessive morphs like the double het pied and het albino stuff yet ^_^

This genetics wizard rocks the socks....

http://www.geneticswizard.com/f_star...ics_wizard.asp

Choose the number of abnormal traits in step one.

Name the traits you are dealing with and determine if they are recessive, dominant, or co-dominant. (recessive is the default so check nothing if you're dealing with a recessive gene), then choose if the parent is a heterozygous carrier or a homozygous carrier (remember there are still heterozygous carries of co-dominant genes - a pastel is a heterozygous carrier of the pastel gene, but since its co dominant, the gene shows).

Woot! I'm getting this!

So in order to get a Killer Bee you would cross what two animals? Obviously, each would have to be either het for Pastel (which I guess would result in supers, normals, and dominant hets, right?) or homozygous for Pastel (which would be the super Pastel), and they would have to be Het for Spider or homozygous for spider. Am I correct?