Heat Tape Mishap (pics and questions)

Sorry the images are so big... but i need help quickly.

i woke up and the tubs were cold, i checked out the tape and it was melted to really badly. i have pics of the wiring, and the tape itself.

(the system ran fine, nonstop, for about 2 months...) then this...

http://www.ball-pythons.net/gallery/...eatTape005.jpg

http://www.ball-pythons.net/gallery/...eatTape003.jpg

http://www.ball-pythons.net/gallery/...eatTape001.jpg

i have 2 more unused levels, so i just have to plug the heat tape into the thermostat and put the snakes in the tubs, but i am hesitant to do so, as i dont want to light anything on fire, or risk the snakes.

additional info...

thermostat set to 91
room temp about 70
heat tape was the only heating element for the rack.
theres almost no seperation between bottom of tub and top of heating element.

id appreciate any help... i just want to know how this happened and what i can do to prevent it from happening again...

What kinda thermostat are you using? It sounds like it failed to shut off... and if thats the case, dont hook up your tape to it until you can do some tests to see if in fact it was the thermostat

This is not the first time I have seen pictures of failed Flexwatt. It could be your thermostat but that doesn't seem like a valid excuse for that kind of failure. You should be able to plug flexwatt directly into the wall socket and not have that happen.

Flexwatt is made by Calorique and they make a similar product for under floor heating. Imagine if that happened in your under floor heating.

I would contact the manufacturer about the issue. It doesn't seem anything you did was wrong.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zx92027xz

i woke up and the tubs were cold, i checked out the tape and it was melted to really badly... i just want to know how this happened and what i can do to prevent it from happening again...

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Did you have your thermostat plugged into a surge protector? Also, have you experienced any power outages recently?

In either case, I would consider the entire setup compromised at this point, and replace it. Don't trust the remaining tape (since it could be a fab issue), or the thermostat, and replace it all asap. Additionally, I would have someone look at the circuit in your house, and make sure the breaker trips as expected on a short, since not doing so could over-amp your gear, and at this point is also a suspect as the potential source of your problem.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zx92027xz

Sorry the images are so big... but i need help quickly.

i woke up and the tubs were cold, i checked out the tape and it was melted to really badly. i have pics of the wiring, and the tape itself.

(the system ran fine, nonstop, for about 2 months...) then this...

http://www.ball-pythons.net/gallery/...eatTape005.jpg

http://www.ball-pythons.net/gallery/...eatTape003.jpg

http://www.ball-pythons.net/gallery/...eatTape001.jpg

i have 2 more unused levels, so i just have to plug the heat tape into the thermostat and put the snakes in the tubs, but i am hesitant to do so, as i dont want to light anything on fire, or risk the snakes.

additional info...

thermostat set to 91
room temp about 70
heat tape was the only heating element for the rack.
theres almost no seperation between bottom of tub and top of heating element.

id appreciate any help... i just want to know how this happened and what i can do to prevent it from happening again...

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Okay well I'm not sure if this is right, but I read that this can happen is there is thermal blocking or something like that? :confused: I'm not an expert but I would defiantly call the manufacturer or someone to get things resolved and so this won't happen again!

How are your snakes doing? I hope none of them were burned :( I hope everything is OK.

What kind of thermostat?

Here is my logic - the first pic shows 2 seperate pieces of flexwatt (that are wired in parallel) both showing signs of excessive heat...which makes me believe that it is not the flexwatt that is the issue. Unlikely that 2 seperate pieces both had the same issue at the same time. Also, the flexwatt if plugged directly into the wall should only heat to about 140 degrees on its own which isn't enough to melt it - again unless a surge or power spike occured which forced more current into it.

So that leads me to either blame the thermostat - I forgot which one you said you were using?

Or...what ever the brown cords are plugged into? I assume since the rack has more then 2 shelves you are running the brown cords to a multi plug extention cord (then to a thermostat)? So this could be the issue to if you got some sort of surge or spike into the system. Since the flexwatt isn't burned up and you said the tubs were cold it shut itself down at some point...so a spike is more than likily the cause...now you need to track down the how and why.

Again this is just my fuzzy logic at work.

BTW...it looks like the rack turned out really well. I never saw finished pictures after we had talked about how to build it. :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zx92027xz

Sorry the images are so big... but i need help quickly.

i woke up and the tubs were cold, i checked out the tape and it was melted to really badly. i have pics of the wiring, and the tape itself.

(the system ran fine, nonstop, for about 2 months...) then this...

http://www.ball-pythons.net/gallery/...eatTape005.jpg

http://www.ball-pythons.net/gallery/...eatTape003.jpg

http://www.ball-pythons.net/gallery/...eatTape001.jpg

i have 2 more unused levels, so i just have to plug the heat tape into the thermostat and put the snakes in the tubs, but i am hesitant to do so, as i dont want to light anything on fire, or risk the snakes.

additional info...

thermostat set to 91
room temp about 70
heat tape was the only heating element for the rack.
theres almost no seperation between bottom of tub and top of heating element.

id appreciate any help... i just want to know how this happened and what i can do to prevent it from happening again...

---

I see 2 problems.

#1 It looks like the cut ends of the flexwatt have not been taped over. Unless you used some sort of clear electrical tape???

and/or

#2 Did you have the reflectix on top of the flexwatt? I would sure think this would cause overheating problems as reflectix is designed to reflect 99% of the heat energy or something. Looks like you maybe between the reflectix and the tin you had nowhere for the heat to go.

Neil

What is the purpose of the reflector tape stuff! The flexxwatt needs to breath a little or it will overheat. What kind of t-stat? The pet store ones are garbage and it leads me to believe that's what may have been used. The cheapest I would go is a Ranco or Johnson.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by westcoastjungle

What is the purpose of the reflector tape stuff! The flexxwatt needs to breath a little or it will overheat. .

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Actually this is not true...according to Clorique (the manufacturer) it does not need an air space to operate correctly. The way this works is that you have an aluminum channel on top (this acts to protect the flexwatt from the tubs and helps to conduct the heat upwards), then the flexwatt, then on the bottom is the relfectix which reflects extra heat back towards the tubs...the end result is a very effecient heat distribution system (below the reflextic is an open air space).

This is the same system that several large rack system manufacters use (including ARS and I think Freedom). I also use the exact same setup he has (I wrote a DIY for this site on the rack he is using) and have had the same heat system working flawlessly for a year now.

Thanks for the quick replies!

the thermostat that i neglected to mention is a Helix DBS-1000... which i understand to be a high quality thermostat...

the power in the house here has been experiencing power ... dims?... see... i dont even live in this house, its my brother who is taking care of the snakes for me while away. so i notice things like the lights dimming every once and a while and they just shrug it off like its no big deal.
the thermo is not plugged into a surge protector. never thought that would be an issue... (stupid.)
however i am hesitant to pull the whole system because my money for the snakes doesnt grow on trees. haha

the snakes are all 100%. i promise. i did a thorough checkout of each one this morning as soon as i saw what had happened.

the two pieces were wired in parallel. and they were the only two ive had hooked up so far. im thinking of isolating the next two level i hook up to see if the same thing happens... this time taking better care to tape off anything could possibly short out...

i never taped over the cut ends of the flexwatt because from what i understood there were designated cut marks where it was cool to cut and not tape. however some extra tape wont hurt, and you probably know better than i do about this sort of thing, so ill throw some on there next time.

the setup i had for the heat tape would look like this if viewed from the side...

reflectix---heattape---aluminum

so in theory, aluminum heats up right along with the heattape underneath the tubs to heat the inside. while the relectix just keeps the heat directed upward. it worked like a charm for the first couple months. (its the same setup i got from LordJackel)

i have yet to set anything up again...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zx92027xz

the two pieces were wired in parallel. and they were the only two ive had hooked up so far. im thinking of isolating the next two level i hook up to see if the same thing happens... this time taking better care to tape off anything could possibly short out...

i never taped over the cut ends of the flexwatt because from what i understood there were designated cut marks where it was cool to cut and not tape. however some extra tape wont hurt, and you probably know better than i do about this sort of thing, so ill throw some on there next time.

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With that type of flexwatt you should use electrical tape on the ends. Here is a volt meter with probes touching the cut ends (on the metal strips).

http://www.sunsetpythons.com/images/flexwatt.jpg

Uncovered that could definitely cause a short against metal.

Neil

The dimming could be an issue if it is frequent as it would cause the thermostat to draw more than it needs thinking it isn't getting enough power.

Also, the untaped ends could have shorted on the aluminum - I think the thermostat should have caught this type of an issue (not certain though) and the heat build up should have registered with the themostat and shut it off as well...so I guess I go back to the dimming power.

Something is wrong but it sounds tricky to diagnose. Good Luck

I'll take a wild stab at it, looks like 3 inch heat tape.... which is normally 10 watts. This stuff DOES need a breathing space or it will melt as it did and even melt containers if it is touching them and in some cases kill animals.

A thermostat is vital to controlling flexwatt. 3 inch flex watt is the hottest type of flexwatt available.

It just looks like with a room temp of 70F the tape is on for long periods of time, which is what causes it to melt if it has to heat through more then half inch thick shelves on racks. I have only ever seen this happen and experience it first hand on several occasions with 3 inch flex watt.

I think you can purchase 3 inch that is only 6 watts.... never heard of problems with the lower wattage stuff.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sputnik

I'll take a wild stab at it, looks like 3 inch heat tape.... which is normally 10 watts. This stuff DOES need a breathing space or it will melt as it did and even melt containers if it is touching them and in some cases kill animals.

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Where is this written? According to Clorique it should max at about 140 degrees which isn't hot enough to melt anything. Obviously this is only when it is working correctly not shorting out...so if this has changed I would like to know for future reference.

Thanks :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lord jackel

Actually this is not true...according to Clorique (the manufacturer) it does not need an air space to operate correctly. The way this works is that you have an aluminum channel on top (this acts to protect the flexwatt from the tubs and helps to conduct the heat upwards), then the flexwatt, then on the bottom is the relfectix which reflects extra heat back towards the tubs...the end result is a very effecient heat distribution system (below the reflextic is an open air space).

This is the same system that several large rack system manufacters use (including ARS and I think Freedom). I also use the exact same setup he has (I wrote a DIY for this site on the rack he is using) and have had the same heat system working flawlessly for a year now.

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I have Freedom breeder racks and the flexwatt is open at the bottom, no reflexx covering and has been working spot on for years.

140 degrees is pretty friggin hot and i would think adding the reflector stuff would amplify that.

I did hear someone say that after Katrina the proportional T-stats would not work correctly on generators and the Ranco type on/off type worked better. Probably due to the fluctuation in electrical currents which seems to be the problem here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by westcoastjungle

I have Freedom breeder racks and the flexwatt is open at the bottom, no reflexx covering and has been working spot on for years.

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Do they offer the Reflectix as an option? I am just curious as that is how ARS does it. And just so I am clear it is mounted to the underside of a metal track correct?

I considered Freedom racks but ended up going with an ARS rack just cause they are local to me and shipping is tremendous.:)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by westcoastjungle

140 degrees is pretty friggin hot and i would think adding the reflector stuff would amplify that.

I did hear someone say that after Katrina the proportional T-stats would not work correctly on generators and the Ranco type on/off type worked better. Probably due to the fluctuation in electrical currents which seems to be the problem here.

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I agree that 140 is hot but it takes 220 degrees to melt the plastic in polystyrene tubs.

I am glad you remembered the point about Katrina...Tim (who I think made the comment) knows about that so hopefully he will chime in here if that could be the issue with what happened.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lord jackel

Where is this written? According to Clorique it should max at about 140 degrees which isn't hot enough to melt anything. Obviously this is only when it is working correctly not shorting out...so if this has changed I would like to know for future reference.

Thanks :)

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It's not written anywhere that I know of, it's based purely on first hand experience.

Below is a plastic container that bore the brunt of 3 inch.... nothing shorting out, it's the length of time that can cause damage if flex watt is touching something else. 3 Inch Flexwatt is more then capable of melting itself and containers.

We leave a quarter inch gap now for all shelved racks where the containers sit on a shelf and are heated from under and or above.

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s...s/100_2051.jpg

Again, this is purely my own experience with 3 inch.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sputnik

It's not written anywhere that I know of, it's based purely on first hand experience.

Below is a plastic container that bore the brunt of 3 inch.... nothing shorting out, it's the length of time that can cause damage if flex watt is touching something else. 3 Inch Flexwatt is more then capable of melting itself and containers.

We leave a quarter inch gap now for all shelved racks where the containers sit on a shelf and are heated from under and or above.

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s...s/100_2051.jpg

Again, this is purely my own experience with 3 inch.

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Thanks Scott...

Just for my own information I sent Clorique an email (and will post the response) asking about heating temps, air gaps and their recommendations. I will keep everyone posted once I get a response back.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lord jackel

Thanks Scott...

Just for my own information I sent Clorique an email (and will post the response) asking about heating temps, air gaps and their recommendations. I will keep everyone posted once I get a response back.

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No prob, they may even have a simple solution to these and or similar problems. I'll be interested to see the response. :)

i taped the ends of the different levels, also i relocated my probe to directly on top of the metal (as opposed to inside the tank) this way i can monitor each tanks temp and adjust accordingly... without the risk of another similar incident. (that is assuming that it wasnt a power surge)

and i got a surge protector on the wall that the thermo is now plugged in to.

thanks for the help. i will let you know if anything goes wrong... if i say nothing... problem solved! :D

I will go ahead and chime in here. However, the only comment that I can interject has been mentioned already, but I will reiterate it anyway. The 10 watt/ft 3" flexwatt does have a tendancy to overheat when it is sandwiched. In the setup that is being used from what I can see, that is with the reflectix, I would opt for the 6 watt flexwatt. I do use a very similar setup as that pictured, and do use the 10 watt Flexwatt, however I do not have the reflectix on my heat panels.

My suggestion would be to either remove the reflectix or change your 10 watt Flexwatt (if that is indeed what you are using) to 6 watt flexwatt. However, if your flexwatt is 6 watt already, there is another problem somewhere. (p.s. I am not good at trouble shooting electrical problems over the net).