breeding weight

I have been looking around to see what I could find for female breeding sizes and found there is a very wide range from 1100-1500 (18 m- 3 years) so I thought I would see what most here think is a good weight/age to start at.

I'm in no rush to breed so I won't breed any of mine till 1800 g +

Thanks
Eric

PS: If there is already a post on here going over this I'm sorry I didn't find it

now, i am very novice, but i've read in the faq that 500g/1ft, or bare minimum of 1500g for a female (no powerfeeding). i'd be afraid of anything less considering it is all i have seen.
i would think less would be harder for a female to develop..she needs that fat to create eggs, correct?

like i said, i'm not 100% but that is what i have always seen and am going by.

Generally Id go for 1500 grams, but if someone is 1400, Id probably breed them as well if they look good. But I wouldnt breed a 1 year old at 1500 grams. I would however, breed a girl who is 1,200 and stocky, and like 5 or 6 years old and just small by nature. So it really depends.

You can not always go by the weight. I have 3 or so females that are 3-7 years of age and 2500 grams plus that will not be breeding this season. They are to small. Then I have a 6 years + female that is approx 1368 grams and she will be breeding this season.If you get the females and raised them from babies they should be ready to breed by there 3rd winter. Some do it sooner. I have results will vary. Some females are just bigger than others and will go sooner than the rest. Some are small like the 1368 gram female she will go but she also has small eggs and the babies hatch out small.
Nothing beats hands on experience or trial and error. Make sure the female looks thick and full bodied. If they look the least bit skinny do not breed them.
Good luck this season.

I'm curious about my girl....When I got her, either in March or April of this year,
she was about 300 grams or so, and roughly 18-22 inches.
She's grown to about 900-950 grams and aprox 40 inches since then.

(She (and both males) have recently been moved into a rack about
a month ago. Since being in tubs (vs. tanks) they have each eaten one small
rat a week, and rather voraciously!)

SO....my question is this..... I want to breed her, and she'll be a year old
next spring. If she keeps eating and packing on weight, would it be ok to breed her next summer?
I know some people like to wait till their a few years old, but, will it hurt her in any way if I bred her then?
(Entirely providing she's heavy and healthy enough to do so)

Thanks for your input. :)

I think the important thing to keep in mind is that breeding a snake that is too small, or too low in weight, drastically increases the risk of egg-binding and death. To error on the side of caution, just wait longer--older, larger females lay larger clutches, hold their weight better while breeding, and have a lower risk of problems. What's more, a female that is bred too young may be high-risk not just that first year, but also in subsequent years, from everything I've read on the subject.

That's why, after doing all of the research, I'm setting my minimum weight at 1500 grams for female ball pythons.

Females that are fat also have a very increased risk of egg-binding and death, as well as throwing slugs, throwing small clutches, etc.

You can't just say that only the small, underweight females have this risk. I only had 3 females lay clutches this year. One is an 02-03 and is probably over 5 feet, but yet she was only 2600g at the beginning of the season. She was a bit thin in my opinion, but she laid 7 perfectly calcified, big eggs in June and is 250g away from her original before-breeding weight right now. Heaven forbid she only gets 4-5 medium mice a week.
My other female is barely 4 feet but is 2300g. She's a bit overweight(YES, she only gets 3-4 mice a week and is a chunky butt) and while her eggs were big, they weren't as nicely calcified as the other female's, and the surface of the eggs were a bit bumpy(hatchlings were smaller too).
The last female was a rescue who I considered underweight, and is an 03 or 04 and was around 1500-1600 when I first got her. She gave 5 perfectly calcified, albeit small, eggs. 3 of the babies are huge now and 2 are still around 35-45g.

What if you had a female that was just a small build? Say an 03 who was 1000-1200g? If she's healthy and has adequate fat reserves for her size, then why not? Not every snake is going to make it to 1500g.

And SnakieMom: NO, she's not old enough. See how heavy she is at 3 years old. Also.. Wait until she hits that teenage angst age(around 1100-1200g), then see how well she grows. She's definitely not going to be ready to breed at only a year old.

I wouldn't breed an '03 that was only 1000 to 1200 grams, unless she was setting a new record for shortness, and had an excellent and reliable appetite. There would have to be some really pressing reason I needed a clutch from her, too.
I would probably not want to hang on to an abnormally small female in the long run. I'm sure most folks meant normal-sized snakes, though, not ones that are exceptionally short or long.
I think it would be too easy for a newbie to convince themselves that their snake is just short, so it's ok to breed at 1000 grams instead of waiting another year. That's the danger in advising folks to breed at lower weights. Someone with a lot of experience can probably tell whether a snake's weight and size are appropriate for breeding at its age.
It's hard to picture an adult BP so small that it never reaches 1500 grams. I'd almost call that a form of dwarfism.

Both weight and age are important, however I personally believe that age is the more important of the two. I've produced several nice clutches from females that were more then three years old but less then 1100 grams. It depends on the individual. Some are just small and always will be no matter how much you feed them.

Mark

The smallest female I ever got egss from was 800g. 3 healthy eggs..

800 grams? I'm sure the eggs were healthy, but what about the risk to the female? It's not usually the eggs that suffer when a female is bred too young/small.
If you acquired her gravid, it's understandable, but I can't imagine why anyone would breed such a small snake deliberately.

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Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

800 grams? I'm sure the eggs were healthy, but what about the risk to the female? It's not usually the eggs that suffer when a female is bred too young/small.
If you acquired her gravid, it's understandable, but I can't imagine why anyone would breed such a small snake deliberately.

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If I did acquire her gravid at 800g Why is that OK? I bred her at that size because she is that size, And will breed this year at only 850g. I gave her last year off to see if she would grow. But she didnt So she is going to breed again..

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Originally Posted by MarkS

Both weight and age are important, however I personally believe that age is the more important of the two. I've produced several nice clutches from females that were more then three years old but less then 1100 grams. It depends on the individual. Some are just small and always will be no matter how much you feed them.

Mark

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Well said Mark!

One of the snakes that I've gotten clutches out of at less then 1100 grams is now over 1200 grams and I will be breeding her again this year. She has produced for me 3 years in a row so far. She eats fine the rest of the year and hardly ever misses a meal. She just hasn't grown very much because she's already an adult. I've noticed that the smaller females seem to be more consistant producers year after year, whereas my larger females are more likely to take a year off. Maybe this is because it takes them less time to get back to their ideal weight?

To be sure, the only snake I've ever had that became egg bound was just under 1300 grams. HOWEVER, she was also 6 years old at the time too. So, the question in my mind is, did she become egg bound because of her small size? Or did she become egg bound because she had her first clutch several years after her peers started laying eggs?

Mark

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Originally Posted by MarkS

One of the snakes that I've gotten clutches out of at less then 1100 grams is now over 1200 grams and I will be breeding her again this year. She has produced for me 3 years in a row so far. She eats fine the rest of the year and hardly ever misses a meal. She just hasn't grown very much because she's already an adult. I've noticed that the smaller females seem to be more consistant producers year after year, whereas my larger females are more likely to take a year off. Maybe this is because it takes them less time to get back to their ideal weight?

To be sure, the only snake I've ever had that became egg bound was just under 1300 grams. HOWEVER, she was also 6 years old at the time too. So, the question in my mind is, did she become egg bound because of her small size? Or did she become egg bound because she had her first clutch several years after her peers started laying eggs?

Mark

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I'd have to say the later. 6 years is young for a bp. But old as far as breeding for the first time? (was this her first breeding?). I'm sure females in the wild breed way before 2 years maybe even before 1 year. (I've done that also lol) But 6 years old? Maybe her female stuff was getting old? (not being used at all)??

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I'd have to say the later. 6 years is young for a bp. But old as far as breeding for the first time? (was this her first breeding?). I'm sure females in the wild breed way before 2 years maybe even before 1 year. (I've done that also lol) But 6 years old? Maybe her female stuff was getting old? (not being used at all)??

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I'm kind of leaning that way too. This was her first time breeding. Her full sister who is also not very big (less then 1800 grams anyway, I don't remember exactly) produced her 3rd clutch out of 4 years breeding for me last year. The same year this one got egg bound. I haven't had a problem like this with any others so far, bigger OR smaller. I AM going to give her the year off this year though just to make sure she's well healed before trying again.

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Originally Posted by MarkS

I'm kind of leaning that way too. This was her first time breeding. Her full sister who is also not very big (less then 1800 grams anyway, I don't remember exactly) produced her 3rd clutch out of 4 years breeding for me last year. The same year this one got egg bound. I haven't had a problem like this with any others so far, bigger OR smaller. I AM going to give her the year off this year though just to make sure she's well healed before trying again.

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Good deal Man.. Have you had her to the vet for an ultra sound? Make sure there is nothing left in her. If you know what I mean?

I have nothing to add...but I do want to thank both Mark and John for their input! I love hearing about first hand experiences especially regarding breeding ages/weights/number of eggs etc... Its a great thing to get different perspectives on.

Rock on guys!

-Jason

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Originally Posted by JBallPython

I have nothing to add...but I do want to thank both Mark and John for their input! I love hearing about first hand experiences especially regarding breeding ages/weights/number of eggs etc... Its a great thing to get different perspectives on.

Rock on guys!

-Jason

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Shall we move onto breeder male weights? I'll get killed here lol!!

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Originally Posted by JASBALLS

Shall we move onto breeder male weights? I'll get killed here lol!!

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LOL...by all means! But I have a good idea of that through other forums.;)

Actually I would be interested to hear the age and weights of breeder males as well in terms of producing viable clutches, and possibly how many.

I've had my cinnamon male in rotation with one female the last few weeks, he has locked up five times that I've caught and has been producing sperm plugs. He's a late 06 hatch and still small by my standards at 430 grams. If his copulation will take with the female is yet to be seen....

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Good deal Man.. Have you had her to the vet for an ultra sound? Make sure there is nothing left in her. If you know what I mean?

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No, no ultrasound. I'm sure there was nothing left in her after I striped the eggs out of her. And she's been eating and deficating fine since then. One bonus out of the whole ordeal is that now she's finally taking rats. She'd been a mouser her whole life until this point.

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Shall we move onto breeder male weights? I'll get killed here lol!!

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Hehehe, I know what you mean. I was SO mad at myself this past year for losing my 'JASBALLS' clutch. I called it that because I had put a young 6 month old 350gram male yellow belly in with a young 1100 gram normal female last year just to see what would happen. I didn't even have them together that long, but she produced a small clutch of 2 good sized eggs and 1 slug. Unfortunatly the eggs died due to me being a dork and not paying attention to the moisture level in the egg box. I let them get too dry. It would have been fun producing some hatchlings that wouldn't have been that much smaller then their Dad.

Mark

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Originally Posted by JBallPython

LOL...by all means! But I have a good idea of that through other forums.;)

Actually I would be interested to hear the age and weights of breeder males as well in terms of producing viable clutches, and possibly how many.

I've had my cinnamon male in rotation with one female the last few weeks, he has locked up five times that I've caught and has been producing sperm plugs. He's a late 06 hatch and still small by my standards at 430 grams. If his copulation will take with the female is yet to be seen....

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My youngest male (to produce eggs) was 5 months 200-250g. 2 clutches. He was 500g when the little girl in my avatar pipped!

My youngest male to breed was a little 175g male. Locked up with his mom for 3 hours strait! (I have pics lol) she did not go..

425g. (the freak) Locked up with my (then 4800g) female 13 eggs! All hatched..

05 male mojo, Got him in January 06 (at 75g) He bred 13 females. Did not mis one feeding to this day! I got 8 clutches from him. 24 mojaves!

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Originally Posted by JASBALLS

My youngest male (to produce eggs) was 5 months 200-250g. 2 clutches. He was 500g when the little girl in my avatar pipped!

My youngest male to breed was a little 175g male. Locked up with his mom for 3 hours strait! (I have pics lol) she did not go..

425g. (the freak) Locked up with my (then 4800g) female 13 eggs! All hatched..

05 male mojo, Got him in January 06 (at 75g) He bred 13 females. Did not mis one feeding to this day! I got 8 clutches from him. 24 mojaves!

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Thanks for those stats John!

I'm not ballsy enough to try that.... that male jave had quite the mojo! lol... send one over...I'll give him a try at my females!:D

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Originally Posted by MarkS

Hehehe, I know what you mean. I was SO mad at myself this past year for losing my 'JASBALLS' clutch. I called it that because I had put a young 6 month old 350gram male yellow belly in with a young 1100 gram normal female last year just to see what would happen. I didn't even have them together that long, but she produced a small clutch of 2 good sized eggs and 1 slug. Unfortunatly the eggs died due to me being a dork and not paying attention to the moisture level in the egg box. I let them get too dry. It would have been fun producing some hatchlings that wouldn't have been that much smaller then their Dad.

Mark

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That sucks Man, Are you sure thats what you called the clutch though?? LOL!
It is Fun though Mark.. Wait until you see this young pinstripe breeding! I love it!

My Lemon pastel male(August 06 hatch) was 450g and 5-6 months old when I started cycling him in with females. He never skipped a feeding(every 6 days) and those girls gave two good-sized clutches, all healthy eggs that hatched. He's now 1100g and ready to go again. Such a garbage disposal :)

Now I just gotta get that Black Pastel up to size ;) He's maybe 175g now, but eating like it's going out of style. We'll see how he looks in January(when it actually gets cold here in Texas).

I'll be giving my 06 male het clown 2 girls this year. He is around 450 grams, Im interested to see how he does!

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Originally Posted by JASBALLS

My youngest male (to produce eggs) was 5 months 200-250g. 2 clutches. He was 500g when the little girl in my avatar pipped!

My youngest male to breed was a little 175g male. Locked up with his mom for 3 hours strait! (I have pics lol) she did not go..

425g. (the freak) Locked up with my (then 4800g) female 13 eggs! All hatched..

05 male mojo, Got him in January 06 (at 75g) He bred 13 females. Did not mis one feeding to this day! I got 8 clutches from him. 24 mojaves!

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Dam that mojo ain't playin:snake: No experience here yet guy's can't wait til this season.:carrot:

Wow, I'm surprised to hear all these low weights for breeding males. I always thought that it wasn't safe, or wasn't worth trying untill they were at least 600g or so. I guess my spider can go for me this year. Woo hoo, now I can try for spiders, Bell pastels and mojos. My albino is about 500g too. Looks like I have to buy an adult het female or another big normal!

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Originally Posted by PythonWallace

Wow, I'm surprised to hear all these low weights for breeding males. I always thought that it wasn't safe, or wasn't worth trying untill they were at least 600g or so.

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I never said it was safe! If you dont know what you are doing, Dont even try. It could cost you in the end!

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Originally Posted by JASBALLS

I never said it was safe! If you dont know what you are doing, Dont even try. It could cost you in the end!

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I'd definately be careful. I'd only breed him to one female, and give him plenty of time off. At at least 500g as of now, I wouldn't be too worried. It's not like he's only 200g or something :D

You do have to be careful and observant. I did once almost lose my oldest male pastel when he was 1 1/2 years old. He was somewhere around 450-500 grams, but when I put him in with a female, not only did he not breed but he completely shut down and quit eating. He may also have had a bug because he started losing weight pretty fast and I thought he was a gonner. He was down to 250 grams when I resorted to using the pinky pump on him. I also added some flagyl to his pinky mush so that may have helped bring him around. He came around pretty well after that and helped me produce 17 pastels the following year. He stayed small though, he's about 5-6 years old now and only 700+ grams. I don't know if his ordeal stunted his growth or not, but he breeds like a champ now.

Mark

i spoke to a couple breeders about egg binding and the general response was that small females have the same risk as large females so its not small size that will cause egg binding although it may be a factor in some cases. i was also told that if a female is too small or too young then she just wont produce eggs or if she does then they'll be small eggs in small clutches. what do you guys think?

this is my first year breeding and all my females are at least 1100g+. my smallest breeding female is now 1200g and just over a year old. she eats like crazy and is not even close to skinny. i was going to wait until next year but got a few opinions and decided to try her out. she locks up like crazy but ill have to wait to she if shes mature enough to produce eggs. im hoping for super pastels...:snake:!

"the jasball clutch"! I like it...................I also have a few females that are older but on the smaller end as far as weight is concerned. I could never understand how people could state what the recommended age/weight is to breed females when the results have been across the board. Healthy clutches from 800g, Slugging out at 2500g, and everything in between. When the age/weight discussions come up, I tend resort to thinking of what goes on in the wild. I highly doubt a 400g male who comes across an 1100g female, they both just stop and say "wait a minute, we shouldn't be doing this........we maybe able to produce a clutch, but there maybe some detrimental affects in our later years"
Anyways, thanks Mark and Jas for sharing your past results!

additionally, I would like to add that I am neither condoning nor condemning the use of small females in all breeding instances................everyones particular situation varies.

just thought I'd throw that disclaimer out there :)

I don't know how much relevance this had, but I like to think about it once in a while. Our WC female was imported gravid and laid eggs. I have no idea how many, or if any of them hatched. The guy we bought her from never mentioned.

She was off feed for a while, 3 mo. I think, and lost a total of maybe 100 grams. She has just hit the 1500 mark. She is a healthy, firm size and eats like a champ now, but how much weight could she have lost when she was gravid.

I mean, she is only 1500 grams now. What was she before? I believe she is the oldest snake we have. I like to think of her as being around 5 years, maybe a little older.

Does this show that an older snake will better breed when lighter in weight than a younger female that weighs a lot? (either from power feeding or just growing quickly)

im breeding a female 100% albino this year and when i started breeding she was 1110 grams... she is 1340 grams right now and i feel 6 follicles...

WOW I learn something new on this forum everyday. Not that I'm going to throw my males in this year but I have a lot of females that will be borderline 1500 grams next year(Theyre all a little over 1000 this year and they're late 05's) sooo I'm excited to give them a try:banana:...Thanks guys!

I believe it's an age and weight thing. I'll wait for their third winter and then see what the weights are. Having a ball for that long will also allow for a familiarity of the snake and so if the weight is borderline, knowing the snake might help with the determination of whether to breed at a lower weight or wait for a while.

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Originally Posted by EMH

I have been looking around to see what I could find for female breeding sizes and found there is a very wide range from 1100-1500 (18 m- 3 years) so I thought I would see what most here think is a good weight/age to start at.

I'm in no rush to breed so I won't breed any of mine till 1800 g +

Thanks
Eric

PS: If there is already a post on here going over this I'm sorry I didn't find it

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Depends on the females..:D

For the females I like to wait till they are 1500 +.

For males I'm still playing around with the weight, but most say wait till over 500 +.

I would like to wait until my female is back to a healthy weight... she seems to still be a bit on the porky side. She has vet apt. on Thursday. She doesn't feel fat, she is pushing 5 and a half feet, nice and toned if you ask me but well see what the vet says.

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Originally Posted by MarkS

Both weight and age are important, however I personally believe that age is the more important of the two. I've produced several nice clutches from females that were more then three years old but less then 1100 grams. It depends on the individual. Some are just small and always will be no matter how much you feed them.

Mark

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I had a 3 year old female that was barely over 1200 give me 5 perfect eggs this last season all 5 hatched 60-65gram babies. She has been eating med. rats every week since 2 weeks after she laid and just weighed in at 1250 and is looking good to go again this year.

I remember when I first got into bps that most of the caresheets I read said 1200g was the minimum. I personally think thats way too small unless you have a 4 year old snake that just wont grow any larger. I personally think that 1500 is the smallest a female should be. Thats what I am waiting for atleast I have a few hundred grams for my remaining females to get their But I am not in a rush I have 2 other females that are plenty big enough. One being 1800g and the other being about 2500g.

I found this extremely useful, I also like reading why everyone prefers one weight over another. I adopted 4 female ball pythons recently all between 1179-1814grams. Three of them are about 5+ years old. So I'll keep in mind all of the weights I've heard today, and of course the weight of the male involved for this winter and see if we can breed. =)