Aquarium husbandry???

Hiya all... Everyone's been so great with advice that I thought I'd see if I could get a bit more out of you...

I've decided to bring home some baby Red Devils... Currently they're able to live together, and then I'm getting a new and huger aquarium in a few weeks that will give them lots and lots of space... I understand *some* when raised from a young age together with tons of room can live together, so here's hoping, and if not then we'll just have lots of aquariums... We'll have the room now with out new place!!!

BUT.. I haven't had fish in a long time, so some recommendations would be great!!!

What do I need for essentials (Other than heater, food, and water treatments to keep clean and healthy)... What type of water filter would be best? What sorts of chemicals and testing kits do I need? And what is the easiest way to maintain ph levels etc???

Recommended hiding places would also be much appreciated as it seems they love to rip apart plants and decorations... Big heavy stuff??

I was thinking of using river rocks as 'gravel' because they're heavier and harder to spit at the glass, but could still be moved around....

Any other suggestions?? I have um... 6 days to plan, one day to buy and set up, and then the trip home :)

I have the tank, and have been advised it's adequate for the time being... Have a bunch of people in different cities watching out for large tanks in the paper (there are always people getting rid of them here) for me... Have my eye on a big 4'x 20" tank if my Dad will go and pick it up for me, but I just want to make sure my shopping list is complete!!!

Probable dumb question, if the heater I'm buying has an "easy to use" thermostat, do I need to put in a special thermometer or anything???

Well, you seem to have the basics down: BIG tank, possible two tanks for separation, warm water.

This is copied from http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/cichlid/reddevil.php

"the Red devil cichlid can grow up to 30 centimeters (12 inches) in length and you must therefore be prepared to get it a large aquarium. As long as the fish is below 20 centimeters (8 inches) in length, a 122 centimeter (48 inches) long aquarium will usually be enough, provided that it has a capacity of 55 gallons (209 liters) or more. The aquarium must be decorated in a way that leaves a big area open for swimming. You should also create a number of sheltered spots for the Red devil cichlid, e.g. by including stones, caves and roots in the set up. Since the Red devil cichlid can be a prodigious digger, it is advisable to place any heavier object directly on the aquarium glass to avoid accidents. Live plants can be destroyed by the Red devil cichlid, so if you wish to arrange a planted aquarium I recommend really sturdy (and inexpensive) plant species. A Red devil cichlid spends most of its time in the lower part of the aquarium."

As far as best filters and good chemicals, that's mostly a personal thing based on the water quality of your area and any past success/failures with water levels. And you should always have a thermometer in a cichlid tank even with the best heater.
Also, just a heads up: you should have your tank up and running for 3-7 days before introducing the fish. This lessens chances of disease from unsettled/filtered water and gives the water time to cycle through.

Hope that helps some. :)

i had one red devil, one jack dempsey, and one convict all together and the red devil domintated even though the J.D. was bigger and had been in the tank longer. cichlids are usually okay together as long as they're together from the start. they don't take kindly to new fish so you want to be sure about what you want and get it all at the same time.


like i said, the devil dominated BUT j.d. got sick of it after awhile and decided to fight back! i have a video i will post soon... very interesting to watch! unfortunately, the r.d. died soon after. after talking with some people on www.aquaticpredators.com i'm fairly certain that his reason for death was an infection due to this fight- which lasted hours, by the way. check out this site... they have some people that are genius with cichlids! kinda like our experts here!

here's a link for that video


http://youtube.com/watch?v=pEdEaN27Rbs

You can pick my brain :) I keep these:
-55g tank with assorted tropical community fish; platies, tetras, iridescent sharks. And a few small channel cats that are bound for a larger tank soon.
-55g tank if assorted fancy goldfish, with a giant comet GF.
-120g Oscar tank with 2.3 clawed frogs, a few large plecos, an algae eater and a Livingstoni. This tank is a delicate balance and it works with 2 nonagressive Oscars; most are pretty aggro and not good for this type of setup.
I definately do not advocate keeping fish together that are fighting :( It is not for our entertainment that they are injuring themselves. I have never kept RDs but I think that you are along the right track, planning having several tanks if they can't get along. :)

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Originally Posted by Ginevive

I definately do not advocate keeping fish together that are fighting :( It is not for our entertainment that they are injuring themselves.

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neither do i but it happened and i didn't have a spare tank to separate them

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ginevive

You can pick my brain :) I keep these:
-55g tank with assorted tropical community fish; platies, tetras, iridescent sharks. And a few small channel cats that are bound for a larger tank soon.
-55g tank if assorted fancy goldfish, with a giant comet GF.
-120g Oscar tank with 2.3 clawed frogs, a few large plecos, an algae eater and a Livingstoni. This tank is a delicate balance and it works with 2 nonagressive Oscars; most are pretty aggro and not good for this type of setup.
I definately do not advocate keeping fish together that are fighting :( It is not for our entertainment that they are injuring themselves. I have never kept RDs but I think that you are along the right track, planning having several tanks if they can't get along. :)

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Thanks, and yes, I do not *plan* on keeping fish together that won't get along and that's not my concern at all right now as I know they are currently getting along fine together and are babies...

What I do need help with though, is the best way to maintain proper PH levels, suggestions for types of filters - what's best, what's a pain... good suggestions for aquarium cleaning supplies... That sort of thing... Just what do I need to buy now and have set up basically...

Thanks!!!!

I can advise you on filters. I use several types. One is a Marineland canister filter. They are great for larger tanks like our 120. They take a little getting used-to and you need to know what you;re doing when setting them up.. but I am sure they come with directions.
My favorite filters are Whisper hang-on-tanks. I have several that are lasting me years and they are virtually silent and easy to clean. I use two for each 55g tank; they are each made for a 40-gallon filter. I like to overfilter :)
Cycling a tank and filter is vital! I have not cycled in years b/c my tanks have been going for that long. Basically you do not want to ever clean an established filter with soaps or hot water; it will kill off your colonies of beneficial bacteria that convert the wastes and detoxify things.
Cycling is not hard; set up the tank and run the filter, and add one or two fish that you really won't be heartbroken if you lose; feeders are good to use, and can be fed to your cichlids later. The tank will get really cloudy but will clear-up; it could take a few weeks. Adding fish gradually is then a good way to do things; overloading the bio-load of bene bacteria is going to cause another cycle and cloud-up and possible die-off of fish.
The worst beginner mistake is thinking that the tank has to be crystal clear 100% of the time. If allowed to cycle, the tank will become an awesome home for fish.
Any questions? I might have skipped something as I am distracted by my fiancee lol.

I would only keep one devil in a tank that size. They will get along now, but when they start getting decent size and start "coming out of their shell," there will be possible hell to pay and they will kill/rip each other to shreds until the most dominant is left swimming.

You get the devils from Chris? He knows more about NWs than I'd ever want to know.... shoot him an email.

As far as decor in the tank....silk plants, terra cotta pots, river rocks, drift wood. You 'can' do other types of ornaments as well.

Care for the would be the same as any other fish...they just get 'jumbo-sized' and a bit more aggressive. They will play survival of the fittests...and in the end you'll probably end up with 2-3.... even in a 120g (4ft X 2ft X 2ft.) you'll want to throw a divider in the middle to separate two fishes so they don't kill each other.

You can add target fishes in the tank if it pleases you to do so...word of warning...they very well may get killed. With my NWs I keep silver dollars, I've also seen Giant Danios, Tinfoil barbs used, etc...

I plan on using a large rubbermaid stock tank for a pond, and unfortunately I'll still be limited on what I could keep in it.

As far as maintenance. Siphon the gravel weekly...if not twice a week to remove waste... big fish make big mess. I would perform 40-50% water changes weekly aswell...it will keep your fish in top shape and they should grow like weeds if also fed a good quality food.

Flowerhorns all the way!

You do seem to have the idea for the most part. Been working with fish for years, here what I would recommend:

A gravel vac that hooks up to the sink: This will make it super easy to do lots of cleaning. The key to getting these guys to grow at a good rate is the same as any other aquatic livestock...lots of fresh, clean water.

Filter: The filter is tough to advise on. I recommend power, its been my experience that those canister filters are nitrate factories. I love Marineland, they make good quality stuff. Also, look into the tetra-tec. The larger ones have 4 carbon pads for filtering, a sponge, adjustable flow rates and direction and a place to put the heater inside of the filter. I have also found tetras customer service to be top notch, sending me free part replacements when needed.

Heater: Recommending a titanium or plastic coated heater in this case. Much better then glass, big livestock can break delicate heaters. Also 2 smaller heaters is much better then 1 big heater. If one fails then you have a backup.

In addition, if someone talks you into one of those bacteria-in-a-bottle products, bio-spira is the only one that works in my experience.

Good luck!

Oh and first post, nice to meet everyone! :rockon:

Yes I did get the devils from Chris, and actually a whole bunch of advice about them as well :)

I ended up going with the same size filter that he has been using, with the larger size for the two that would be appropriate for my tank. I'm also getting a second bigger tank so that I can in the long run keep more of them :) I will probably rehome some of them - special colourings going back to Chris :)

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Originally Posted by ArcticBlue

A gravel vac that hooks up to the sink:
...
Heater: Recommending a titanium or plastic coated heater in this case.
...
In addition, if someone talks you into one of those bacteria-in-a-bottle products, bio-spira is the only one that works in my experience.

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Well welcome to the site!

Do you happen to know of any good brands of the vacs that you could use with a bucket? I set up my aquarium pretty far from the sink, so I'd need about a 25 foot hose to reach it. The vac for the bottom was definately something I was considering, especially since at the moment I am going without gravel to guage just how messy they truly are (that, and I actually had to move the aquarium from one house to another 4 days after bringing the fish home, and gravel was just too heavy to think of moving with the tank, then some of the fish like to hide under my large decorative rocks which they couldn't do if there was gravel in there, so I might actually go without. Any brands you recommend etc for Vacs?

I got a glass one for now, at the moment they are way too small to damage it, glass was all I saw though when I was out, so I guess I'll be hunting a bit more before they get larger.

And I was talked out of any of the stuff you put in the water on the exact basis that they don't really work :)

Congrats on on the new additions!! What did you end up going with for decor?

For gravel vacs, Pythons are great, and come in long enough hose lengths that you wouldn't need to use the bucket method. A couple questions now that you got the fish in. As far as cycling the tank, how long have you been running the filter? Has there been any bioload or addition of ammonia in the tank before this? If so, have you tested ammonia and nitrite levels since you added the fish? If you have no filter media from an established system, and the filter hasn't been running for very long, just keep a close eye on ammonia levels in the tank. I would hate for you to lose your new additions to a spike.

Oh, and where are the pics? :D

-Evan

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Originally Posted by Evan Jamison

Congrats on on the new additions!! What did you end up going with for decor?

For gravel vacs, Pythons are great, and come in long enough hose lengths that you wouldn't need to use the bucket method. A couple questions now that you got the fish in. As far as cycling the tank, how long have you been running the filter? Has there been any bioload or addition of ammonia in the tank before this? If so, have you tested ammonia and nitrite levels since you added the fish? If you have no filter media from an established system, and the filter hasn't been running for very long, just keep a close eye on ammonia levels in the tank. I would hate for you to lose your new additions to a spike.

Oh, and where are the pics? :D

-Evan

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I got precycled filter materials :) As for decorations, one largeish glass rock that looks kind of like a huge chunk of carmel and then two lighter creamy coloured ones, a terracota coloured cave and a grey stone cave for them to hide in.


I am kind of waiting to get pictures once we get stuff um... Unpacked :D It took us 4 days to get fully moved in, and then we helped our old roommate move into his new place... We currently have boxes everywhere, and since we just got the last of our stuff in yesterday and were exhausted a good deal of our furniture is still in our front hallway :)

I tried to take pictures before we moved, but they didn't turn out!

I'll have more pictures of cleo (aka Kitty) too once we get unpacked and she's settled from her Thursday night meal :carrot:

I agree, I think Pythons are the way to go, and the smallest size the length of tubing comes in is 25ft to the best of my knowledge. As far as the standard gravel vacs go, they are all basically the same. I would get one that is very basic. I have used the ones with the special "gravel guards" and things like that and have found them to be more of an inconvenience then anything.

Also, not that surprised that you didn't find the heaters in the stores yet. They are starting to catch on but aren't mainstream as far as distribution goes. I would imagine in less then 5 years the old glass ones will become obsolete, and hopefully the hang on tank kind won't even be made anymore. Anyway, the ViaAqua titanium heater is one brand, and the Visi-Therm Stealth is another. When you look to upgrade, both of those work well based on my experience with them.

Again, congrats on your new babies, hope to see some pics soon :)

A "Python" or similar hose is essential! I use mine to siphon the tanks (I let it drain outside into the garden.) I then attach it to the sink in the utility room and fill the tanks; it is sooo easy. I would never have the tanks that I have if i had to use buckets to fill them.

A 6' tank is the minimum to even consider keeping devils together. Marinelands are not that great for the money. You'd need the biggest one and for 30$ more you should be able to get an Eheim Pro which is the best. Look at getting a Filstar xP3 and an Emperor 400. You mentioned ph, completely ignore that. Unless you have ph bouncing around then it means nothing. I haven't checked the ph in a freshwater tank in years.