Orange Ghosts: better in person?

I really want to get into different morphs after I sell off some of these Pastel babies. I adore the looks of the more orangy, pop-out-colors-that-hurt-your-eyes morphs. But Clowns (one of my favorites) are out of my price range. And Pins do no really appeal to me a ton.
I was looking into orange ghosts.. maybe I am just not looking at the right ones; but many of them just don't seem all that hot looking? Are they something that you need to see in person better to appreciate? I seem to remember seeing some nice bright ones.. Mlededee, I believe, had one in her avatar that just screamed orange. That is what I am looking for..
Any OG keepers? I would love to see some pics!

EVERY mutation looks better in person. ;) :sweeet:

-adam

Actually ghosts vary...Orange look the best in my opinion, but some oranges are not that nice looking. You gotta see it as close to in person as possible before buying.

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

EVERY mutation looks better in person. ;) :sweeet:

-adam

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Right on, a picture can't show you what the naked eye can! :)

And Jen, don't forget pastel orange ghosts. One of the most stunning BP's I have ever seen is person was a POG at Pro Exotics. He was so bright he looked radio active. Might make a nice project for the future if you added some het Orange Ghosts.

Neil

I was pleasantly surprised when I saw George the first time out of the box. He really glows in person.
The pictures were very nice though, and made me go "Ooooo!" but seeing in person does make you realize how very lovely it is!

I wasn't sure about hypos just from seeing them in pictures and books...but I first saw a few in person at a show.... I had to have one somehow...:D

They are such a great combo morph:
Hypo Cinny
POG
SPOG!
Honeybee
*True Ghost* (fingers crossed on that one being produced and at Daytona)

I know I'm leaving some out...but overall they are great!

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Originally Posted by JBallPython

*True Ghost* (fingers crossed on that one being produced and at Daytona)

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Unless it has been a very hush hush hatchling, I don't think you will see one in Daytona.

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Originally Posted by muddoc

Unless it has been a very hush hush hatchling, I don't think you will see one in Daytona.

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Okay.

Orange Ghost are great. :D
This is my 06 female at 900 plus grams and they do look way better in person then in pic's, IMO. Clowns are awesome also and maybe someday I'll get some from Het's.

http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/1...geghostvd6.jpg

Good luck on whatever you pic. :D

Wow, those POGs are hot!
I am at a weird standstill in my BP life. I have bred and will sell the Pastels, but the proceeds will not be enough to get into my two favorite morphs: pieds and clowns. Yet I am reluctant to get into hets, because I will readily admit, I am impatient! Unless I get two subadult hets.. and maybe an OG, an albino or even a mojave to pacify my need for a new morph.. then I need a het albino to go with that if I go albino or OG.. See, I got my Het OG from an iffy source; actually my fiancee bought him when I was not there, and I have no proof that he is a het. If I sell him, I will fully disclose this to the person who's buying, and I actually have an interested potential buyer in the area. If I was for certain that he was a het, a female OG would be a defininte consideration..
Sorry! Just thinking aloud.. I have no one else to talk morphs with realy. Mark is good about it, and he likes the same morphs I do, but this is my thing. In return for listening to my babbeling, I will give advice to anyone who is also in a standstill at this time.
Definitely on the table for this November: Spider x Nomal.

Yeah, you really do have to see the Orange Ghosts in person to appreciate how gorgeous they are. I'm with Adam, though, they are all better in person, lol!

Sprocket had a baby Orange Ghost at the last expo we went to, and it bit Jeff several times. It was like that "Dirty Jobs" where Mike kept getting bit over and over by that one snake, totally hilarious. But yeah, I wanted to take that snake home soooo badly. Jeff wasn't as keen on that idea :confused:

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Originally Posted by Ginevive

Wow, those POGs are hot!
I am at a weird standstill in my BP life. I have bred and will sell the Pastels, but the proceeds will not be enough to get into my two favorite morphs: pieds and clowns. Yet I am reluctant to get into hets, because I will readily admit, I am impatient! Unless I get two subadult hets.. and maybe an OG, an albino or even a mojave to pacify my need for a new morph.. then I need a het albino to go with that if I go albino or OG.. See, I got my Het OG from an iffy source; actually my fiancee bought him when I was not there, and I have no proof that he is a het. If I sell him, I will fully disclose this to the person who's buying, and I actually have an interested potential buyer in the area. If I was for certain that he was a het, a female OG would be a defininte consideration..
Sorry! Just thinking aloud.. I have no one else to talk morphs with realy. Mark is good about it, and he likes the same morphs I do, but this is my thing. In return for listening to my babbeling, I will give advice to anyone who is also in a standstill at this time.
Definitely on the table for this November: Spider x Nomal.

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All I can say is.... the sooner you start on recessives, the sooner you will produce the visual morph from those homo/het breedings and more hets.... not exactly advice or even a good attempt, but that's the way I see it!

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Originally Posted by Ginevive

Wow, those POGs are hot!
I am at a weird standstill in my BP life. I have bred and will sell the Pastels, but the proceeds will not be enough to get into my two favorite morphs: pieds and clowns. Yet I am reluctant to get into hets, because I will readily admit, I am impatient! Unless I get two subadult hets.. and maybe an OG, an albino or even a mojave to pacify my need for a new morph.. then I need a het albino to go with that if I go albino or OG.. See, I got my Het OG from an iffy source; actually my fiancee bought him when I was not there, and I have no proof that he is a het. If I sell him, I will fully disclose this to the person who's buying, and I actually have an interested potential buyer in the area. If I was for certain that he was a het, a female OG would be a defininte consideration..
Sorry! Just thinking aloud.. I have no one else to talk morphs with realy. Mark is good about it, and he likes the same morphs I do, but this is my thing. In return for listening to my babbeling, I will give advice to anyone who is also in a standstill at this time.
Definitely on the table for this November: Spider x Nomal.

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You from NY so we might of bump to each other if you go to the white plains show.

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Originally Posted by SarahMB

Yeah, you really do have to see the Orange Ghosts in person to appreciate how gorgeous they are. I'm with Adam, though, they are all better in person, lol!

Sprocket had a baby Orange Ghost at the last expo we went to, and it bit Jeff several times. It was like that "Dirty Jobs" where Mike kept getting bit over and over by that one snake, totally hilarious. But yeah, I wanted to take that snake home soooo badly. Jeff wasn't as keen on that idea :confused:

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Hehe, I think they make the best eatters. I have some cinnamines and they always try to bite me but when I put a mouse in there tub bang, bye bye. :D

Charlie

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Originally Posted by Sputnik

All I can say is.... the sooner you start on recessives, the sooner you will produce the visual morph from those homo/het breedings and more hets.... not exactly advice or even a good attempt, but that's the way I see it!

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Yup, it may be that the time you (or at least for my case) can finally afford a visual recessive morph, you could have bought two hets and then raised them up and bred them myself. So if the homo is out of your reach, then go for the hets, a couple yrs is worth waiting; especially for some of these awesome morphs out there!

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Originally Posted by blueapplepaste

Yup, it may be that the time you (or at least for my case) can finally afford a visual recessive morph, you could have bought two hets and then raised them up and bred them myself. So if the homo is out of your reach, then go for the hets, a couple yrs is worth waiting; especially for some of these awesome morphs out there!

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I know. I have dreamed of adding a Pied to my collection; I thought it was a given regarding the direction I wanted to go. Now though, Mark and I are both smitten by Clowns.
Decisions, decisions!

If you make a honeybee you should be able to get a clown and a pied. So go for the ghost!!! I know I am!!!

i started off with just a spider and a pastel to make bees, then i brock gave me a het ghost male, and now i need to find a female for him. this way i'll have visual morphs my first clutch (spider x pastel) and i'll have a pair of hets cookin as well). from that i can go into honey bees, killer bees, and so on. just takes time and a little luck with the hets. good luck on whatever you choose to do.

another quick note, with the way co-dom prices are slowly dropping, i think recessives will keep their value better, since the odds are harder.

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

EVERY mutation looks better in person. ;) :sweeet:

-adam

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Agreed 110%

When I saw a bee up close, DANG! I have yet to see a ghost, but I am sure its spicy. :D Maybe VPI will will bring me one to the show. :hint hint: I think I should make a list for them..lol.

Here's my orange ghost Kaspa I got last year in Daytona and she is a hotie! This year she's over 1100 grams and I'm looking for a boyfriend. The orange has died down a little but they are still my favorite of the ghosts. haven't seen a cinny ghost yet does anyone have a pic? An orange ghost cinny must just be awesome! Yes they do look better in person.
http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w...rangeGhost.jpg

Hypos are one of my favorite Ball Morphs...

You can't go wrong adding Hypos to your breeding projects...They make everything look better...

This is my Breeder Male...
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...eMale010-1.jpg

And here are a few I have produced...
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...tching031s.jpg

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...emale031-2.jpg

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...emale019-1.jpg

Incredible hypos Jon!:sweeet:

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Originally Posted by coldbloodaddict

Hypos are one of my favorite Ball Morphs...

You can't go wrong adding Hypos to your breeding projects...They make everything look better...

This is my Breeder Male...
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...eMale010-1.jpg

And here are a few I have produced...
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...tching031s.jpg

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...emale031-2.jpg

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...emale019-1.jpg

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Don't i own one of those now? :D

What i like most about OG's, is how they change colors in different lighting so much. Under flourescent lights, my ghost is super light and you can barely see the orange.......put her under incadescent and/or natural light and she looks like a carrot, lol. Cold Blooded Addiction makes some killer hypos.....my female is one of the best i have EVER SEEN, and gets better with each shed.

Hypo may be one of those morphs that don't look their best at hatching. I've followed a few examples where they got much better looking as young near adults than as hatchlings.

Regarding the true ghost, doesn't it seem overdue by now? What all lines of axanthic have double hets out there trying to produce true ghost?

I wonder if some of the axanthic mutations are on the same chromosome as hypo making the combo even harder than the already hard 1 in 16. Maybe if not all the axanthic strains have been tried yet it would be worth trying a 2nd choice axanthic line.

Another possibility would be if axanthic and hypo combined in some unexpected way. I would expect the combo to be a very striking gray snake but maybe one of the mutations covers the other over somehow so that the genetic true ghost looks like just a hypo or just an axanthic.

Probably just bad luck hitting the 1 in 16 combo so far but there are a couple possible complications to watch out for.

Wow; I think that I just might look into an OG after drooling over those pics! I love the idea of a morph that gets better looking with age, as opposed to fading or darkening.

I've always been a huge fan of Ghost/Hypos
This is my OG..... :sweeet:

http://www.daplayhouse.com/Web/Orange_Ghost_001.jpg
http://www.daplayhouse.com/Web/Orange_Ghost_002.jpg
http://www.daplayhouse.com/Web/Orange_Ghost_003.jpg
http://www.daplayhouse.com/Web/Orange_Ghost_004.jpg

That is hot! I like the almost purpley coloring inside the patterns.. wow.
Anyone have shots of one next to a normal?

here is a pic of my male ghost w/ a pastel, a spider, and a normal

http://a442.ac-images.myspacecdn.com...e7d1ec58c9.jpg

here is the male by himself
http://a579.ac-images.myspacecdn.com...3515aafb7a.jpg



and here is a pic of my female
http://a864.ac-images.myspacecdn.com...a8149f744f.jpg

Thanks! I am def. developing a better respect for them now after seeing all of these hotties.

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Originally Posted by RandyRemington

I wonder if some of the axanthic mutations are on the same chromosome as hypo making the combo even harder than the already hard 1 in 16. Maybe if not all the axanthic strains have been tried yet it would be worth trying a 2nd choice axanthic line.

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If axanthic and hypo were on the same chromosome (linked), then you would expect a better than 1/16 chance of producing the double recessive in a cross of two double hets (AaHh). Theoritically speaking, the chance could be as high as 1/4.

See

http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...1&postcount=21

http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...9&postcount=23

http://www.biology.arizona.edu/mende...cross/10t.html

I'll have to come back and do the tutorial link later as I don't have time tonight. I could see how after the crossover occurs to get both mutations on the same copy of a chromosome occurs you could get the 1:4. However, my thinking was that it would be hard to get that initial crossover.

If say VPI axanthic and ghost turn out to be on the same chromosome, when you create the double hets they would have one copy of the common chromosome with ghost and the other with axanthic, right?

Now depending on how close together the two locus are wouldn't the big problem be getting one, much less both, of the double hets to have an odd number of crossovers between the two locations to be able to give mutant versions of both genes to the same offspring? But by the same token if you ever did make a copy of that chromosome with both mutations they might stay together for a long generations and inherit like a single mutation.

Maybe I see the confusion. Does the term “linked” only apply once the crossover occurs to get both mutations on a single copy of the common chromosome and not to the general case of two mutations that exist in genes that are located on the same chromosome number but not yet combined in an actual copy of that chromosome?

Your original assessment was right. I thought I was off and I should have asked you for clarification and thought about it a little more..sorry about that.

However, it's good to mistakes--it often allows for a deeper understanding of the material and it allowed me to recall the difference between cis and trans linkage.

Linkage simply means the loci for the genes are on the same chromosome. So Linked genes are on the same chromosome. Pretty simple, right?.....Kinda but confusion like the one I had with Randy can be avoid by introducing a little bit more necessary terminology

The fact is there are two different "flavors" of F1 double hets for linked genes. You see there are two possible configurations, the cis and the trans configuration for linked genes.

cis and trans are used a lot in many fields of science. But "cis" means the "on the same side of" while "trans" means "opposite or not on the same piece/side".

The problem was I was I was thinking of a situation in which you crossed two "true breeding" or double homozygotes to get the F1 double hets. So in that case we would be crossing a Normal BP that was not het for either trait (AA HH) to a double recessive (aahh). This situation, analogous to the pea example described in the tutorial, would give you a theoretical rate of ~25%.

However, no double recessive or hypoaxathanic (aahh) has been produced to our knowledge. So that why my assessment was wrong and Randy's was right!

In a situation like this where no double recessive exists, the double recessive would be hard to initially produce if the gene loci were linked. But once it was produced, interestingly, it would be easy to reproduce because as Randy hinted the two loci would be inherited almost as if they were the same gene.


If you don't have a double recessive you have to try and make it, you'd do this just like you would for an unlinked gene. By breeding to make a double het....but the initial double het for linked genes would not be as useful as a double het for unlinked genes because (1) you cant rely on the independent of separate chromosome to produce recombinant or non-parental types and (2) it would be in the trans configuration.

In trans, the mutations would be on different homologous chromosomes. And as the Punnet square below shows mating two F1 trans double hets will never give you a double recessive unless you have crossing over event. Linked genes use slightly different genetic convention systems than unlinked genes. Geneticists often put a line above the two separate genes to represent a chromosome. Hopefully it's clear from below, that in contrast to unlinked genes, in linked genetics, you match up the non-homologous genes (non-matching letters) because they really do act somewhat like one large gene cause they tend to be inherited together.

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...nts_563135.jpg




Again, the double recessive would be hard to initially produce because you would be relying on cross-over between homologous chromosomes during meiosis I to get the axanthic and hypo mutations on the same chromosome in the gametes. The more closely linked-i.e the closer the the axanthic and hypo genes are on the chromosome, the smaller the chance of getting a cross-over that would produce the cis configuration. And it might be much less than 1 in 16 if the genes were very close on the same chromosome.


I hope this make sense at least for you Randy. Once you get the two mutations coupled (i.e. in cis), then what I said earlier and what is shown in the original Arizona tutorial on pea plants will ring true.

For a more historical introduction to this, see http://www.ndsu.edu/instruct/mcclean...e/linkage2.htm

PS>You dont need an odd number of cross-overs to get gametes with the mutations in the cis or coupled configuration. This gets complicated but a three or four chromatid strand double cross-over between the area of the linked genes in question does it as well. I couldn't find a picture online of this, but good genetics textbooks (Genetics Hartl 3rd ed. is an example) will have pictures of this.

Check out Joe Compel's site. He has some of the best ghosts around IMO and is a great guy to deal with.