Good Beginner Snake???

I got my first ball python almost exactly three years ago. I ordered her online, never saw pics beforehand... I was just looking for a good deal, it was a birthday present for myself, my only other snake was a corn snake I had gotten a few months earlier. I did a lot of reading online (caresheets, we know how great those can be right :rolleyes: ) and thought I was ready.

Turns out I had every problem in the book. Fasting for months at a time, incorrect temps and humidity, bad sheds, got bitten up by a mouse, respiratory infection, scale rot. I learned as I went along, and this summer I've FINALLY gotten things right, after spending some time reading these forums. She's fat and healthy eating f/t rats and I just bought an acurite thermo/hygro and it seems I've got things under control. I recently aquired another ball, this one is being kept correctly from the start, in his little tub.

I work at a pet store, and we always have a bunch of ball pythons. They don't have the greatest setup, and are kept all together, but they are kept warm enough and are eating every week (I feed them myself). No mites or anything and good sheds.

Here's the issue... when people see they are at a good price (49.99) they are willing to buy them spur of the moment. "So what do I have to do?" I HATE having to sell ball pythons to people who have never read a single thing about them, especially if they've never had snakes before. I try to keep my advice simple, but I'm extra paranoid considering I know all the problems that can arise from not doing your homework. And being an employee and wanting to make a big sale, and usually within earshot of my boss, I don't want to suggest plastic tubs to keep the snakes in. Well, in my heart I do. So sometimes when trying to explain their husbandry requirements I go a little overboard, and my coworkers will tell me to calm down, that "everything I read says they're an easy beginner snake". But I care about what happens to that snake *after* it leaves the store. Another thing that really bugs me is when other coworkers say that the snakes can be kept together. Because one girl I work with keeps 5 ball pythons of different sizes/ages in one giant 75 gallon tank. I've argued with them in front of customers... even if they snakes dont eat each other, they'll still be stressed! And that's not something a first time beginner snake owner is going to want to deal with.

Do you think ball pythons are a good "beginner" snake? From my experiences the easiest and most forgiving snakes are cornsnakes, and milksnakes. What can I say to customers that are unwilling to do some research ahead of time, aside from selling them a book? Sometimes I remember to write down this website to hand out. But once I told a customer to go and do some research first, and my boss heard me, and still has not forgiven me for it.

I guess I just wanted to rant a little bit. It makes me sick to my stomach sometimes, selling an animal to a person that I can tell won't properly take care of it, or is constantly trying to take the cheap way out. My favorite customers are the ones that do their homework ahead of time, *or* they come in not really knowing what to get, but willingly buy everything I tell them to :cool:

Ball pythons are easy enough to take care of if you get the temps and humidity and cage setup right, but there is so much bad information out there, it can be tough to sift through it all, and some things might not really seem important enough to spend money on (like digital thermometers).

I just hope all the little ones I have sold are doing ok.

I've got my BP from a pet store and to tell you the truth I didn't know much about them. I've handled my cousin's 5 foot BP and watched him take care of it threw the years.

I 1st wanted a Iguana but the guy at the pet I went to would not sell it to me cause I didn't to research I understood but he just was rude about it and didn't seem like he knew to much about them either. So I left that pet store and drove another 20 miles to another one too see what they had there. I looked around and seen what I wanted more then a snake. I got her that same day and as soon as I got home I got her cage all ready and set up for her and I left her alone for a few days due to the new enviroment (Common Sense). But anyhow after she was all settled in I began to search the net for fourms so I could read all I could about BP I was up all night reading because I didn't want anything to happen to my snake.

Most of the people that are looking really intrested in them im sure will do there research and I do see where you are coming from. I'd do the same thing. But I knew I was going to do my homework as soon as I got home. I've had my snake for 2 months now and she is doing great. Eating both alive and frozen adult mice.

But to tell you the truth any Reptile is hard to take care of. You will spend more time keeping up with them more then you would a Dog or cat. It was Something I knew I'd be dedicated to and I am.

I can only imagine how difficult it would be to work at a pet store like that. It'd drive me nuts knowing I have to make sales to people who walk out with no clue.


Here's a little suggestion....why not get some business cards printed up with BP.net's website spelled out on them? You can even print them up yourself at home...just buy some businesscard stock at the office store. Put a small stack of them in your pocket and when you're at work and anyone expresses interest in caring for bp's or other reptiles, you can slip them one of those cards and suggest they check out the site as a free source of info for learning to care for the animals they are so interested in.

Hi,


Another idea is to talk to your boss about him selling tub setups ( or even racks) as an option (with a reasonable markup naturally :D ) and discussing how he would feel about you suggesting the people buying the snake only put a deposit down on the snake then and there but take away a book on the husbandry - he can even use the idea that if they buy the snake and setups from him within a certain time he will refund the price of the book.

The herpetocultural library series by Phillipe de Vosjoli et al always struck me as good sources of information and they have a sufficiently low cost that he could cover it with a barely noticeable price increase on the snake or setups with ease.

I'm not saying that they would go for any of the ideas but it does show your thinking about the problem from his point of view as well by considering the business needs.



dr del

i would call balls a "good second snake". i think because they are picky eater, and the temp and humidity has to be pretty accurate. corn snakes are a little more forgiving and are much better eaters in my opinion.

i would push a corn snake on a beginner rather then a ball python....

Man, that is a very tough situation to be stuck in. I am not sure what your store policy is but maybe you could write up your own care sheet with all the essentials needed to care for a BP. Explain to the people receiving the care sheet that everything stated in the care sheet is NEEDED and not simply options to think about.

I doubt your boss would have a problem if these people were walking out the door with a glass tank, UTH, thermostat, thermometer, hides, substrate and a snake. I think that pet stores always get off way too easy as far as what they are willing to let slide. They are selling animals and the well being of those animals should be just as important as they money they receive for them. It boggles my mind what they can get away with.

is it a chain store? cause i tried giving them a print out of NERDs caresheet, as well as ideas for proper set ups and stuff. i even sat and talked with a manager a couple of times and taught her the basics.

yea then she was fired for not following store policy...

so hopefully the store you work at is willing to go through some changes.

These are all good ideas I'm all for.
But I work at a chain petstore, and you can't just give out business cards like that, or just try and educate everyone that comes in by suggesting a down payment, there are policies and procedures that you gotta follow.
For example, if a customer comes in with a child who acts completely out of control, bangs on the windows of the terrarium/habitat, I will refuse to sell them any pet of any nature that day, however, I will talk to them a bit, tell them its a commitment that you must be dedicated too, and you can't just play with/ignore the animal as you please. Doesn't work like that. I've refused to sell pets to certain people, and I've gotten complaints about it too, but at the end of the day I know I can sleep knowing that I ultimately made the right decision for both the animal and the customer. Then again, on the flip side of that I've had to make some tough decisions with certain people higher above me saying to sell regardless, it sucks, but its what you gotta do. When they come back in with a dead/sick hamster or bearded dragon, it kills me knowing I had to sell it, even though its no fault of my own. Just tend to the animals best I can.
But such is life. :(

I actually bought mine from a pet store and the lady didn't really give me much info on anything. She even had me buy frozen mice even though they feed live there (which they told me the next time I went in). My cousin had one which is the reason I got one, but originally I knew pretty much nothing about them. Needless to say I have learned quite a bit from the forums and now have a healthy girl. In the future when buying another bp (most likely within the year) I would go with a breeder rather than a pet store due to the fact they are stressed since they are housed together and increased chances of mites or an RI. I just count myself lucky I ended up with a healthy girl not knowing any better the first time around.

for every snake in a 50 gal tank with sand as substrate and a half log hide, there also is a dog chained up in the back yard for 8 hours with no food or water. it's not just the snakes and the reptiles, or small animals that some think are pets when they want them to be. shelters are loaded with dogs someone wanted as a cute little puppy and now don't want the responsibility. we can try to educate as many people that will let us but it's not gonna fix a whole lot. yes, there will be a handful of better kept snakes, or other reptiles, but there will always be the half hearted keepers out there, wether it be snakes, dogs, cats, or what ever else.

i once wanted to teach every 12 year old with a pet snake, and all the others, but it got a little to overwhelming fast. there are people that think they are right about everything and refuse help. then there are some people that don't want to spend the time or the money, or the people that blame everything but themselves. some that just shouldn't own anything (come on a king snake and a ball python just cuddling????) it's like trying to ice skate up hill...

i will say if me, or this website (which i direct people to) helps 1 person learn the proper way to keep a snake/animal, , thats one more animal thats gonna live a happy and healthy long life. and i will be a little happier.

sorry for the rant...

You know, I've had my snake for nearly a year now.

I got him after doing nearly a years worth of research, much of it done on this page.

He has never missed a meal. His sheds are almost always in one piece. He is a remarkably healthy, handsome boy, and I love him to pieces.

And despite all of the things I have to do, to see to it that he's so healthy, he's got to be one of the easiest pets I've ever had to care for. My fish are more time consuming than he is, when it comes to care.

He feeds live, is never picky, and tonight ate like a champ.

I think that while BPs definitely require some starting research, once you've got the knack for it? You're good to go. I definitely consider them awesome beginner snakes.

It's not a chain store, and I have some flexibility with how I take care of the reptiles and deal with customers, as long as the boss approves.

The thing is, most people aren't going to do the *correct* amount of research. Until I discovered this website I never knew a ball python should be kept in a tub, never knew I should have a digital thermometer/hygrometer and a thermostat. Now these have become mandatory in my mind. When I try to tell people how I have my bps set up, they just stare at me like "what the hell are you on, I'm not going to spend that much money!". People may be willing to spend over $1000 on a puppy, but want to cheap out on a snake, that will live LONGER than the dog! Ugh.

I agree that once you get the right set up, it's easy. But I've been through all the problems that are possible, and I don't want to see it happen to someone else because they are too cheap or too lazy to get it right.

Hey Bug Lady!
All I can say is "Amen Sister"! My first snake was a corn because it was a great beginner snake. Then I adopted a rosy boa. I recently got a ball python from a rescue group. Needless to say, before I brought home each one, I did my research. I am a vet assistant and we see exotics as well as dogs and cats. I can't tell you how many times clients have come in with snakes, iguanas, lizards, mice, rats, guinea pigs, rabbits, etc that are half dead just because the client has not done the proper research before buying these animals and the pet stores have not taken the time to educate the owners before the sale. It just breaks my heart these poor creatures are put in a cage without the proper nutrition or environment. The pet stores, small
and large, are out there to make a buck at the suffering and expense of the animals they sell. I think these sales should be outlawed. I totally understand your frustration, as I have a hard time dealing with some of our undereducated irresponsible clients. You just have to bite your tongue and hope for the best. I'm just glad someone else out there feels the way I do.

You know, what "good beginner snake" means can vary from person to person. To some people, that means a snake that's not nippy. To others, it means a snake that's easy to care for. To others, it means a snake that can't kill you.

I think the best think you can do is simply educate the people you talk to and pay attention to what they are looking for. Certainly, if they like the snake they got they are going to be much more motivated to take good care of it. Some people may really like the laid back nature of BP's while others may be thinking "what do you mean he spends most of his time in his hide?!?!?!".

By educate, I mean spend the short time you have with them to tell them the most important things. when I got my BP the guy chose to spend all his time telling why F/T was better than live. Not really the top of the list is it? Also, make sure you open their eyes to further learning. Having little peices of paper with www.ball-pythons.net written on it is a great idea. IMO, business cards are more likely to attract negative attention from owners.

On top of that all I can say is be realistic. If you are overly sensitive to the situation, or succomb to the villianization of pet stores, you will most likely deprive yourself of the chance to really help.

Like you said, they have BP's in packed together but they are healthy. The same is true at the exotics store I frequent. But, these guys aren't stupid - they know what is really necessary to keep the animal healthy. They don't pack all the snakes together like that - only baby balls. But they turn baby bp's over so fast that those little guys spend very little time in those conditions. I got mine from a cage with prolly 20 others and he's great. Other snakes are really cramped but - you know what? - these guys will do almost anything to take an unwanted snake in. They take in rescues all the time. To summarize, many of the setups they have in the store there would draw all sorts of criticisms from members here. I know the animals in there aren't in the best of conditions but they are all healthy. I also know the people in there pretty well and they aren't sickos bent on torturing animals.

Ultimately, you can't prevent mistreatment of pets you can only help prevent it. If you're OK with living with that then just do the best you can with the time you have and let it go. That's all you can do.

Ben

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bearhart

You know, what "good beginner snake" means can vary from person to person. To some people, that means a snake that's not nippy. To others, it means a snake that's easy to care for. To others, it means a snake that can't kill you.

Ben

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Excellent point. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bearhart

You know, what "good beginner snake" means can vary from person to person. To some people, that means a snake that's not nippy. To others, it means a snake that's easy to care for. To others, it means a snake that can't kill you.

I think the best think you can do is simply educate the people you talk to and pay attention to what they are looking for. Certainly, if they like the snake they got they are going to be much more motivated to take good care of it. Some people may really like the laid back nature of BP's while others may be thinking "what do you mean he spends most of his time in his hide?!?!?!".

By educate, I mean spend the short time you have with them to tell them the most important things. when I got my BP the guy chose to spend all his time telling why F/T was better than live. Not really the top of the list is it? Also, make sure you open their eyes to further learning. Having little peices of paper with www.ball-pythons.net written on it is a great idea. IMO, business cards are more likely to attract negative attention from owners.

On top of that all I can say is be realistic. If you are overly sensitive to the situation, or succomb to the villianization of pet stores, you will most likely deprive yourself of the chance to really help.

Like you said, they have BP's in packed together but they are healthy. The same is true at the exotics store I frequent. But, these guys aren't stupid - they know what is really necessary to keep the animal healthy. They don't pack all the snakes together like that - only baby balls. But they turn baby bp's over so fast that those little guys spend very little time in those conditions. I got mine from a cage with prolly 20 others and he's great. Other snakes are really cramped but - you know what? - these guys will do almost anything to take an unwanted snake in. They take in rescues all the time. To summarize, many of the setups they have in the store there would draw all sorts of criticisms from members here. I know the animals in there aren't in the best of conditions but they are all healthy. I also know the people in there pretty well and they aren't sickos bent on torturing animals.

Ultimately, you can't prevent mistreatment of pets you can only help prevent it. If you're OK with living with that then just do the best you can with the time you have and let it go. That's all you can do.

Ben

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Yep, you are right Ben. What may be a good beginner snake for one person may not be a good one for someone else. I just meant a corn is relatively easy to maintain environment wise and it has a docile temperment. Plus it remains fairly small when it reaches adulthood, mostly long but not very big around. I guess you could say it is less intimidating than some of the larger snakes.

For me it's been a good beginner snake although I've only had a BP for about a month now. He got me over my wariness of snakes and so far he's been extremely docile. Every time a mouse is offered he eats it within a minute, and the only reason he had a bad shed was because of my ignorance on the importance of humidity. I didn't do any research beyond listening to my brother's advice of how to set up his tank (get a hiding place, plants, something to rub against, substrate, big water bowl for soaking, etc etc) and to feed him once a week. It would have greatly helped me if I had researched more beforehand, but so far the experience has been very good, to the point where I'm considering adding a second one next summer. I've been reading this forum much more than posting and it's given me a lot of good info.

I think they make great beginner snakes, but then again, I've never had another kind of snake.

My BP was my first snake, but not my first herp. I've had leo's BD's and my panther chameleon before i ever got my first snake, and as far as husbandry complexity goes, they're are an excellent first snake. IMO i think that it depends on the persons experience of keeping reptiles that should determine how 'easy' or difficult any herp is to care for. I'm sure that If I started out with a BP, that at first it would seem extremely difficult to maintain the correct husbandry requirements. But with dealing with several other species of reptiles, you learn little 'tricks of the trade' and, and learn what can and can't be applied to one species or the other. But ya.. I'm pretty much rambeling on now, lol.