Is it worth it?

My collection consists of only 3 snakes at the moment...2 of which feed on hopper mice and 1 on adult mice. I plan on adding another juvie and 2 big females to the collection soon. Now, my question is this: Would it make sense to get 1.3 rats and produce my own food? I've got a spare 20g lying around that can house them. Just wanted to hear your thoughts on this. How many rodents can I expect them to produce and how long until I have some appropriately sized rodents to feed?

A few quick concerns:


1. you are currently feeding mice so you are assuming ALL your snakes will switch over to rats - possible but risky to assume it
2. 1.3 rats means you could have 30+ rats within a couple of months that within 3 weeks of being born could be too big to be feeders any longer - now you are talking about needing to switch them to F/T - again possible but don't assume they will
3. Then another month gap (at least - 2 if you plan to rest the females) then another 30+ babies

So long story - for so few snakes I wouldn't bother. You will have either not enough or too many of the correct size and to try and regulate their breeding means you will need more than one tank and then with them all seperated out they won't have any companionship (other rats which they need to thrive)

i have been doing my feeder math as well and i am actually picking up a breeding trio tomorrow. heres some things i had to get

a 20 g tank for the male to live in
2 10 gal maturnity tanks
2 68 qt tubs to house weaned rats (male/female), with hardwear cloth to make tops.
5 water bottles
5 food dishes
a nice large bag of substrate
food: rolled oats, rasian bran, puffed wheat, senior dog food, and fruity trail mix

as of now i need 8 pinkies, 1 pup and a small each week. to me it's worth it, as i plan on only breeding 2 females, so i won't have too many numbers.

i easily spent $60 not including the rats, on this set up, (i had the tanks laying around too so you might ave to buy all those). it's alot more work then it sounds.

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Originally Posted by Kagez28

i have been doing my feeder math as well and i am actually picking up a breeding trio tomorrow. heres some things i had to get

a 20 g tank for the male to live in
2 10 gal maturnity tanks
2 68 qt tubs to house weaned rats (male/female), with hardwear cloth to make tops.
5 water bottles
5 food dishes
a nice large bag of substrate
food: rolled oats, rasian bran, puffed wheat, senior dog food, and fruity trail mix

as of now i need 8 pinkies, 1 pup and a small each week. to me it's worth it, as i plan on only breeding 2 females, so i won't have too many numbers.

i easily spent $60 not including the rats, on this set up, (i had the tanks laying around too so you might ave to buy all those). it's alot more work then it sounds.

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But...your math doesn't work. You will have 3 females - say you breed one each week with the male - that means you will get babies at week 4, 5 and 6 (basically a month from breeding) you can expect 12 (avg. size litter) you will feed off 8 each week (pinkies - but have to wait 2 more weeks(a week for a pup and another week for a small) before all the babies are gone) - so what do you do for the next 6 weeks when you don't have babies coming to feed off??

Basically you need 1 litter being born every week - so you don't have enough breeders to do that.

well math has never been my strong suit, but i get what you're saying. i was just pointing out what i had to buy just to start breeding rats. and i counted wrong, i need 6 pinkies because my 2 corns are on mouse pinkies (which i have a ton of f/t ones)

i have enough f/t food for everyone for 8 more weeks. and my boa and largest ball will take either. how many females do you think i should use? i figured 2 or 3 mixed in with f/t, would give me enough food.

i am not looking to go full scale, these rats are going to be pets first, i just figured i would get some food out of them.

thanks for bringing the numbers to my attention, i'm gonna have to refigure all this.

I was actually planning on freezing rodents as they come so I have the sizes I need on hand. Everyone seems to dissuade me from breeding my own rats, but I think its economically sound, especially when I plan on double my collection in the near future.

Kevin, I wouldn't worry about it. It's rare that anyone starts breeding rodents and becomes completely self-sufficient on feeder needs right up front. It takes awhile to get into the rhytm of breeding rodents, figuring out which females tend to be your best producers, that sort of thing. Just start out slow, get a feel for it and get used to your trio and the care needs of rats and I'm sure you'll do fine. It took me probably 6 months to get completely free of buying any feeders and even then I've had "dry spells" where something went off on the breeding schedule and I needed to occasionally buy extra feeders in some size or other.

I figure even if you can supply 50% of your feeder needs and are producing really superior feeders, you're doing great in the feeder department. The rest will come in time and with experience with the rats. :)

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

It took me probably 6 months to get completely free of buying any feeders and even then I've had "dry spells" where something went off on the breeding schedule and I needed to occasionally buy extra feeders in some size or other.

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We've been producing our own feeders for over 2 years and we still have those "dry spells." It's still so much more economical to breed your own (assuming a reasonable size group of snakes) and you know exactly how healthy the food for your snakes really is.

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Originally Posted by Tainted Glory

I was actually planning on freezing rodents as they come so I have the sizes I need on hand. Everyone seems to dissuade me from breeding my own rats, but I think its economically sound, especially when I plan on double my collection in the near future.

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well if you plan on adding more snakes, then breeding might be worth it. i have 10 right now, and i am just starting to breed. we'll see how things good.

good luck.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kagez28

well if you plan on adding more snakes, then breeding might be worth it. i have 10 right now, and i am just starting to breed. we'll see how things good.

good luck.

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I agree as long as you have multiple feeding options (those that will take both F/T and Live or snakes other than Ball's that can eat larger prey) then breeding makes a lot of sense as you can use what you produce and suppliment with F/T as needed to make sure you always have the right amount. You can always add more breeders down the road as your collection grows.

yea i'm gonna give it atleast 2 birthings to see what kind of numbers i am looking at, then i'll decided what to do. thanks for the help Sean.

First I want to say anyone that wants to breed feeders should give it a shot. I do think it is a good idea to start with less then you think you need and work into it. But heck we are talking mice and rats, no rocket sience there so just do what works for you.

Now from my view, I spend about 125-150 dollars a quarter with Rodent Pro including shipping. I do have one snake that is a tird and I have to buy him live mice but the other 39 (yes I have 40 animals) all eat mouseciles and ratcicles from RP and they are all healthy and in great shape.

I am not one of "those people" :rolleyes: that insist on feeding dead prey to my snakes, snakes are one of the oldest and most deadly rodent killers in the world. To me it is all about convience, this morning I will go to the freezer with my list, take out the Sunday feed and let it thaw. Once thawed I will do the cage cleaning and feeding for about half my group. Then Wednesday after work the same drill for the other half.

My animals are enough work, I am not a full time breeder or anything like that so I have other businesses to run that take a lot more of my time. I also hunt, fish, take care of my house and yard and own two cats and two dogs. I can not imagine adding mice and rats to my home nor the effort to clean and care for them.

So 50 bucks a month to support my colony seems like a fair wage to give those rodent pro dudes to me. Their mice and rats never stink of urine, they all look healthy and the convience is wonderful. Now as a hunter I own a very big deep freezer in the garage so that helps. I can buy a 90 day or more supply at a time, I don't like keeping frozen more then 6 months though as nutrition value starts to decline by them.

Now the other part is I do put all but my boa and carpet python into brumation each year, the break is for them and for me. They get the last meal of the year in the first week of Dec, the lights go to short duration, the heat tape goes off and the cages are cleaned the week before Christmas then on New Years day (hung over or not) by then they don't do much. I don't feed again till week one or two of March after a week of long light and warmth.

Now I don't keep Balls and many of you (98%?) do so I know you can't do this just like I can't with my Boa or JCP but the result for me is 3 months of the year with no one to feed except my Durmils Boa and my Jungle who eat only twice a month in that time, they stay warm but get the same lighting so I think that slows them down too.

Hence I only feed about three quarters a year for most of my collection so my hobby from a food cost per year is about 450-500 max a year. So if taking care of rats took me 50 hours a year (it would have to be more) I would have to value my hourly time of freedom quite low to breed my own and smell rat stink to boot.

For many I know you like dealing with rats and mice, etc. That is cool but to me personaly frozen is the way to go, now if I can just get my Transvaal House Snake on frozen all will be perfect, :snake: