:( Major temp probs...

I got the enclosure re-set up again today... And again, major temp problems!!! With no heat source on at all my overall temp is at 89.8.

I turned on my UTH for a total of 5 mins, the 'hot' side became the 'super hot side' at 97.6 in the hide the probe is in, turned it off after 5 mins of watching the temp go way too high, and it's taken half an hour to get down to 94.7 in that hide.

The probed temp in one of my 'cool - but really not so cool hides' is 89.4...

Yeah, my house is not so fun to live in - we're dealing with the 90 degree heat daily and while sleeping, but I don't want the snake to have to...

How can I lower the heat in the enclosure (or better, the rest of the house too!!!!)

You can see the temp in this pic if you look close ( 89.7 / 89.1)... and that's with *NO* heater on...

Click here for picture.

Hi,


What are you using to regulate your UTH?

dr del

Note that the temps are actually 83.7 and 89.1. I would just turn the UTH on the tiniest bit and see if that get's your hot side where it should be.

It's not 83.7, it's 89. It looks like a three because I shrank the photo. I can post the full size if you'd like.


I didn't use anything at that point because it's too hot in there with nothing on at all. I turned on the UTH for exactly 5 mins timed just to see how high it would go, and then how long to cool back down.

Here's the close up... They've evened out now that the UTH has been off for an hour or so.


Click here for picture.

Don't freak out at 97d. Unless your snake is not comfortable and won't come out of its hide for anything then it will move around to keep its body temps correctly. I'm not saying that you shouldn't work to keep things in the right range but I wouldn't switch into emergency mode until 99+. Before I was schooled by the people here I used to have a warm-side hide that was over 100 most of the time. But, my BP would hang out in there for a while and then come out and press up against the glass somewhere to cool himself down and then head back in. Alot of the real concerns about temperature come from the fact that BP's will prioritize a particularly good hiding spot over all other things.

So, I would recommend getting your warm side down while making sure you don't make other areas too cool. But, I would also recommend watching your snake and determining if its actually comfortable with changing hides. If its not then you are losing the most important thermostat of them all - the snake. If you read on reptiles you'll find they all know exactly how warm they are and how warm they'd like to be. So I think a comfortable BP is the best thing you can achieve. If they are comfortable and not holed up hiding all the time you can get alot of good information from simply watching their behavior.

I'm more concerned with the fact that my cool side is 89 and won't drop lower... There is no 'too cool' in this house it seems because I can maintain an almost 'hot side' heat without even having a heater turned on...

so you can't get a temp lower than your surroundings except perhaps by keeping the humidity on the higher side. I always find that the cage temps tend to increase as the humidity goes down.

If your temps are actually that high you might be able to cool the tank via evaporation by keeping the *outside* of the cage wet. Perhaps you should consider a constant misting onto the glass coupled with a simple fan. voila - you've got yourself an evaporative cooler!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GirDance

I'm more concerned with the fact that my cool side is 89 and won't drop lower... There is no 'too cool' in this house it seems because I can maintain an almost 'hot side' heat without even having a heater turned on...

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yea - I didn't catch that at first. Its very uncommon.

Yeah... I think it might be uncommon because most *people* find living at that temp unbearable!!!

Thanks!! I'll definately try that, we have two fans in here, but they don't seem to be doing much... Maybe I'll try a wet towel over the vent with a fan aimed down at it... With the paper towel in there instead of coconut fiber my humidity is too low at the moment as well...

If I can't get it down should I just go without a 'hot' side till we get an air conditioned place at the end of August?? Or settle with the 98 ish hot side and the 89 cool?

keep the enclosure on the ground. heat rises and this might help a little. a fan blowing on it will do nothing but blow hot air around, and lower the humidity. keep the humidity up by misting, that helps lower temps a few degrees (use ice cold water).

get a/c :)

Well, we haven't found a place yet, and A/C is on the 'must have for Adri's new pet' list...

so describe the areas you have available to put the cage in. what's your budget right now? and, how often can you check on the snake?

so i had this idea for increasing humidity and water freshness. I had never heard anybody else talk about it so I never tried it. But recently, I found it in a python book! The technique is to get a fish tank air pump, hose, and aeration stone attachment. Hook it all up and put the aeration stone in the snake's water dish. You should get a nice source of fizzy air into the water in the dish. I'm sure this will decrease this temperatures and increase the humidity in the tank. I also suspect that it is good for the water because oxygenating things tends to kill bacteria (think of the difference between running water and stagnant water).

Give it a try and let me know how it goes! The cost is very low and I bet it will help alot. It can't hurt!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GirDance

Yeah... I think it might be uncommon because most *people* find living at that temp unbearable!!!

Thanks!! I'll definately try that, we have two fans in here, but they don't seem to be doing much... Maybe I'll try a wet towel over the vent with a fan aimed down at it... With the paper towel in there instead of coconut fiber my humidity is too low at the moment as well...

If I can't get it down should I just go without a 'hot' side till we get an air conditioned place at the end of August?? Or settle with the 98 ish hot side and the 89 cool?

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not sure if a minimum of 89 is cool. Also, if you're going to try the fan thing, the water is important (think how sweat works to cool you down - evaporation).

Between me, the boyfriend and the roommate the snake can have someone to check on it every hour if needed, it's very rare that no one is home.

Next pay I've got quite a bit of money, money isn't really an object I'd rather have a well taken care of animal than an animal just for the sake of having it. I've already put about 300 or so into equipment etc over the past two months (for some reason things seem to be a lot more expensive in Canada because they're hard to find for me).

This is the only room where it would not be in direct sunlight or high traffic at all time's... I've been placing the thermometers in different rooms in the house for a day and a half and then checking the min/max settings before moving it. Temps in the house are pretty constant.

Basement is currently at 90% humidity because our stupid landlord flooded it on us last week and it took us a week before finding out it was flooded (he left a tap in the laundry sink on) because we rarely go down there - but it's always really humid. I'll try putting the thermometer in the dining room again tonight, check the min/max and then see if there is any way that I can manage to rearrange the furniture so there's no direct sunlight...

We don't have much room to move things, we've had two roommates move to other countries and 1 best friend, all three of them leaving us all their belongings... (We own 5 couches that we had to squeeze in somewhere!)

Hi,


Bearhart,

Actually I wouldn't put an airstone in the waterbowl as the vibrations could stress the snake - be we do have a sticky on an alternative that avoids that possibility.

Adri,

I asked what was controling the UTH because , if it was on a good theremostat then it would only turn on when required and turn off when it got to hot - and if you got a proportional thermostat ( like a helix) then it would run it at a lower voltage. This would give you more control than switching it on for 5 minutes as this gives you a false idea of what can be done.

How common is the 90 degree heat you are presently suffering?

Is there a big seasonal swing in the house and if so what are the low/highs?

This information will help people try and design a year round heating system for your tank to make sure it keeps your little guy happy.


dr del

Well, I've had the UTH completely off at the moment because my entire tank is just below 90 (staying around 89). It's the 'cool' side that the issue is with, not the hot. I've had no heating sources on actually.

Definately seasonal, and definately typical, however not this bad for everyone... We're renting a really old home - duplex - and for some reason you could open every single window in the house and you don't get the slightest bit of a breeze through any of them. There's not much point worrying about your heating system if your entire tank is pretty much as hot as you ever want it to be with absolutely no heat source :) I have a T-Stat, I just see no point even plugging it in because I don't want it to get any warmer. I only turned on the UTH to see *how* hot it would get if it was turned on for even 5 mins. Within 30 seconds it was at 92, 1 min 94. It will be about this hot for another 2 months...

In the winter it will get to be about -10 to -20 (celcius), but in the winter we're able to regulate the heating levels... We're moving soon, I'm demanding air conditioning, then I'll actually be able to use the TStat and UTH.

Hi,


Yes that's how hot it gets uncontrolled in 5 minutes.

Controlled by a correctly set thermostat it wouldnt get any hotter than 94 thus giving you a small but at least existing thermal gradient.

The reason I recomend that is that, even allowing it should last as is for 2 months, you wouldn't need to adjust the heating again as long as it could keep the cool end above 80f.

I know at the moment your problem seems like it is cooling but its best to set up the systems in the tank to cater for the full range while it is empty and there can be fluctuations without putting any animals at risk.



dr del

Thanks :)
I'm checking out the cool side temps under the dining room table at the moment... If I can get a min max closer to the 80 range I'll just be crawling around on the floor to do anything! The only concern with that is the roommate's cat stressing out the snake... This room is also the only one with a 'no cat's allowed' barrier (because I'm severly allergic and this has become 'my room').

I just wanted to get a good base before I even start with anything else because with a base temp that's off everything is just going to be out of wack... Because I know the thermostat will work I didn't even bother with it at the moment!

It's good that you are concerned about the health and well being of your ball python. We hear about so many that get a snake and don't have any idea or care about what to do.


I do understand your concern about the cool side, but until you move, let me share some practices down here that may reassure you. Several breeders I know here in Florida keep their snakes with no heat and no air conditioning. They allow the ambient temps and humidity to rule. Yes, I'm talking about well established, well respected breeders that keep hundreds of ball pythons. This time of year, it is usually over 90 every day with between 85-100% humidity. There is essentially no cool side. Their ball pythons thrive.

Seeing my electric bill last month made me start thinking about how I could use the outside temps to heat these days.

Good luck!

Well thanks :) I don't believe in owning pets that you aren't prepared to give what they need - if you can't supply what they need you shouldn't have them!

Our electrical bills are already insane - its part of the reason why we're moving!! That and the heat, and the heating bills in the winter, and the messy roommate, and the cat I'm allergic to... But I'm going to use "we need A/C for the snake as my 'official' excuse!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dr del

Hi,


Bearhart,

Actually I wouldn't put an airstone in the waterbowl as the vibrations could stress the snake - be we do have a sticky on an alternative that avoids that possibility.

Adri,

I asked what was controling the UTH because , if it was on a good theremostat then it would only turn on when required and turn off when it got to hot - and if you got a proportional thermostat ( like a helix) then it would run it at a lower voltage. This would give you more control than switching it on for 5 minutes as this gives you a false idea of what can be done.

How common is the 90 degree heat you are presently suffering?

Is there a big seasonal swing in the house and if so what are the low/highs?

This information will help people try and design a year round heating system for your tank to make sure it keeps your little guy happy.


dr del

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I see your concern. Bubbles do generate fairly bassy sounds. But, I would think that could be alleviated by getting a very fine stone. (This was actually what I was thinking of but I didn't specify it) The very fine pumice stones produce a fizz rather than a series of bubbles.

My motivation for suggesting the idea was more to take advantage of the evaporative cooling effect that would occur inside the cage. This effect might be as good in the solution you suggested, provided that the hose on the exhaust side was kept as short as possible and/or insulated.

Hi,


It has to be said cooling down is a heck of a lot harder to do on a cage by cage basis than almost anything else I can think of.:(


dr del

Yeah definately cooling down = lots of headaches!!


*However* I have made some headway!!! I went to home depot and asked about different types of light bulbs and what give off the least amount of actual heat... Spent 15$ on a light bulb for the overhead light in the room and it's a little darker, but much cooler after just one night :) And it's been about 20 degrees hotter today than any other day this week!!!

Now if only I could suggest that to all the people I had to talk to on the phone today at work who went heat crazy I'd be happy.

Time to start over again with the temp measuring, but I've got lots of time now... I had a disagreement with the owner of the only exotic pet store in town ('specializes' in captive bred reptiles) because he didn't want to let me know what the weight's/ages/feeding responses had been like for the females he has in stock, outright refused to give me any information about where they came from or who'd bred them and would not garentee that I would receive a healthy animal.

I decided to drive the extra 35 minutes, wait the extra week and get one from another family owned breeder who comes highly recommended from everyone I know... They may be almost twice the price, but they at least are willing to answer questions and are concerned about the homes their animals end up in. They've even sent me photos of the mother and offered to let me see her and the father when I go in as well as send photos of the baby's development since hatching - health garentee for 30 days after.

*IMHO This other guy is worse than pet smart because he should *completely* know better than just being a big heartless chain store*

Oh, excessive misting every 2 hours has also been helping bunches:) I'm going to add a humidity hide as well, and see if the 20 days that we'll be in this house can be okay with just the very small variation, lots of humidity and the humidity hide.

Still welcome to any other suggestions anyone can think of!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GirDance

Yeah definately cooling down = lots of headaches!!


*However* I have made some headway!!! I went to home depot and asked about different types of light bulbs and what give off the least amount of actual heat... Spent 15$ on a light bulb for the overhead light in the room and it's a little darker, but much cooler after just one night :) And it's been about 20 degrees hotter today than any other day this week!!!

Now if only I could suggest that to all the people I had to talk to on the phone today at work who went heat crazy I'd be happy.

Time to start over again with the temp measuring, but I've got lots of time now... I had a disagreement with the owner of the only exotic pet store in town ('specializes' in captive bred reptiles) because he didn't want to let me know what the weight's/ages/feeding responses had been like for the females he has in stock, outright refused to give me any information about where they came from or who'd bred them and would not garentee that I would receive a healthy animal.

I decided to drive the extra 35 minutes, wait the extra week and get one from another family owned breeder who comes highly recommended from everyone I know... They may be almost twice the price, but they at least are willing to answer questions and are concerned about the homes their animals end up in. They've even sent me photos of the mother and offered to let me see her and the father when I go in as well as send photos of the baby's development since hatching - health garentee for 30 days after.

*IMHO This other guy is worse than pet smart because he should *completely* know better than just being a big heartless chain store*

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You certainly made the right decision about that first place. Was he trying to avoid telling you they were recent imports perhaps? When a supplier/breeder refuses the information you have every right to know then walk...heck run...the other way. They are likely trying to hide something or can't be bothered to keep proper records on their snakes.

As for a cooling system... I had an idea, but I'm not sure if it will be economical or work! It's basically comparable to the under tile water heating units... Buying some plastic tubing and a water pump, weaving the tubing into a kind of matt and then attaching along one half the bottom and side of the rack.

Option 1: have both ends going into a reservoir of cold water-the pump would circulate the cool water through the tubing from the water source and then back to it - we'd have to change out the water or add ice to it periodically.

Option 2: Another idea would be to have the tubing connect to a water cooler with temperature control - and then filter back into the jug through the top of the water cooler...

Option 1 = really cheap, but a lot of close monitoring... Option 2 = probably around 100 or so, not too too bad... Plus, in the winter if we get the kind of water cooler that has a cold, room temp and hot tap that could be used to add extra heat.

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

You certainly made the right decision about that first place.

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Well, he's either just really lazy or is trying to not tell me *anything* at all! I hooked up the thermostat out of interest the other night... and it's broken so I need a new one... One of the questions I was trying to get an answer out of him was if he had any in stock. I emailed him last week about his animals and he blew me off, so then I called in yesterday because I need a new thermostat - I asked about the thermostat first and he said he didn't know what he had in stock and I would have to come in and look. When I asked if he'd be willing to order one in he got snippy with me and said no. We got to the snakes and all he would tell me was that he had Balls in stock and couldn't garentee sex because it is too hard to determine weight because he doesn't weight them, or health because customers can kill their pets off so easily.

The other place has yet to return my last email, but they're closed Mon-Wed... They post up pictures of all the parents and garentee that you can see them - and all their other stock - when you come in. They garentee health, and will help out with any health problems or treatments that your reptile may have over the years... They've even helped my other friend with their rescued snakes (one has mouth rott, the other had burns that needed to be treated). Hopefully they have good proportional T-Stats in stock, my old one was an on-off type and now doesn't work at all - but I've been assured if they don't they'll order one.