Watersnake saliva

I have heard that watersnake saliva has a anticoagulant that stops the blood from clotting which causes (in some cases) extreme bleeding. I was curious if this is the same material used by some venomous snakes?

um... yea, some hot snakes venom is an anti coagulant. There have been medicines created using those venoms. But as for water snake saliva?... I dont know. Might actually be confusing that one with a venomous water snake. Like the coral. Course, i dont know much about venomous snakes either.

Ah, yes. the Northern water snake must be what your referring to. http://www.enature.com/fieldguides/d...?recnum=ar0108. I learn new stuff everyday. lol this pretty much sums it up tho:

edit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snake_venom
The chemistry of snake venom

Snake venom is a mixture of toxins and different enzymes used for other purposes like increasing the prey's uptake of toxins.

* Phosphodiesterases are used to interfere with the prey's cardiac system, mainly to lower the blood pressure.
* Snake venom inhibits cholinesterase to make the prey lose control of its muscles.
* Hyaluronidase increases tissue permeability to increase the rate that other enzymes are absorbed into the prey's tissues.
* Amino acid oxidases and proteases are used for digestion. Amino acid oxidase also triggers some other enzymes and is responsible for the yellow color of the venom of some species.
* Snake venom often contains ATPases which are used for breaking down ATP to disrupt the prey's energy fuel use.

Thanks i dont know why but that is very interesting to me. I catch them all the time.

Did you see the Dirty Jobs episode where he ran around and got bit about 5 times in 5 minutes by the northern water snake. I think it was anyways..LOL it was great!! Look it up, you'll love it.

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Originally Posted by Herppro.com

I have heard that watersnake saliva has a anticoagulant that stops the blood from clotting which causes (in some cases) extreme bleeding. I was curious if this is the same material used by some venomous snakes?

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Psst.....what we call Snake venom is modified snake saliva.;)

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Originally Posted by Mendel's Balls

Psst.....what we call Snake venom is modified snake saliva.;)

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yea... but the intent wasnt about injectable venom. More of just "spit" ;)

Venom is chemical in nature....Gila monsters don't really inject venom with fangs, instead they chew their prey and the venom begins to work it way into the prey. Venom is poisonous spit.

True, but in the case of the northern water snake, it doesnt inject. And its still labeled as non poisonous. The hila has rear fangs that inject a neurotoxin. So it does have "venom" not just really nasty "spit"

dont wanna confuse it with rear fanged colubrids, the gila has grooved teeth in the bottom jaw... and to mix in the saliva while they chew. :D

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

True, but in the case of the northern water snake, it doesnt inject. And its still labeled as non poisonous. The hila has rear fangs that inject a neurotoxin. So it does have "venom" not just really nasty "spit"

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Your right...my characterization of it as spit or slavia seems a bit off in light of this quote from a foremost venom researcher:

"Key to understanding all of this is that these gland are not salivary glands. There is no homologous structure elsewhere in nature. The glands were evolved from the ancestral mucus secreting cells, changed to become protein secreting instead. This is what is present in the iguania. The snakes and anguirmorpha (anguiids, heloderms, varanids etc.) independently eventually ended up favoring different regions. The advanced snakes turned the maxillary (upper jaw) gland into the venom gland ubiquitous in advanced snakes while the anguimorphs developed the lower jaw. The iguanians haven't done much at all with it."

See the thread here.

Seems like it is more like mucus in a way....however the water snake still might have venom. The number of snakes that can be considered venomous has gone up....though the number of those that are venomous that pose a serious medical danger to humans has remained fairly constant. More senstive chemical techniques have allowed researchers to find smaller quantities of venom in previous species that were previous thought to have no venom. This dosage may make a difference in prey capture for the snake, but not in self defense against us humans. ;)

Hmm, cool. But for it to produce venom, wouldnt it need glands to? That's crazy that more snakes are being considered venomous.
I cant find anything about the watersnake on whether or not it does have a venom producing gland.

I personally dont think the northern water snake is venomous because like you said it has no venom gland. I think this anticoagulant is just a modified way to concern predators about their bite and not eating the snake.

I still couldn't find anything about that venom gland in water snake....

well if there is a venom gland then it is a venomous snake but i really dought a water snake has venom.

don't gila's use bacteria like komodo's do? rapid blood poisoning by really bad bacteria in the saliva?

if they did then the komodo would be considered venomous also.

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Originally Posted by jeffjr464

don't gila's use bacteria like komodo's do? rapid blood poisoning by really bad bacteria in the saliva?

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No neither use bacteria...they both use venom.

A drug, Byetta, from Gil monster venom is being used to treat type2 diabetes.

It is still somewhat controversial on the Komodos but more convincing and specific evidence seems forthcoming.;)

Gila monsters acutally use venom. Check out wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gila_monster

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

Ah, yes. the Northern water snake must be what your referring to.

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i found one of these once, in a black morph, very common morph here. I got bit but it didnt bite rpeatedly. Just bit and sorta held on... it was a big one though. The black northern watersnakes have a very attractive red coloring as well...

Some of that info on that page seems wrong, stating they get black with age. Not neccessarily. I found a couple of black juvi's. also, i've seen photos of lighter adults.

Thats cool, I would love to display a black or red watersnake! But as they are pretty tempermental, im not so sure I would actually love it that much. :P