substrates..

any to stay away from? i would liek to have one for all the pets, is carefresh ok to use with the snakeys?

tia

aspen for everybody! Just modify the rats a little to keep down odor. Stay away from Ceder or smelly chips. The oils are harmful to most animals. Even rats. I still dont trust carefresh. Most reviews dont endorse it.

I used to use Carefresh with the snakes and rabbits, it's a little dusty but not bad. Expensive! I've since switched to Indented Kraft Paper because it's nice, neat, safe, and easy to clean! Also, much cheaper in the long run. :)

We use CareFresh for all of our snakes & Bearded Dragons. It is expensive but how much do you really use? It's easy to spot clean. The only disadvantage is the snake can burrow under it, but they can do that with aspen too. And it's weird looking (looks like it snowed!) in a snake enclosure.

hmm.. i need to really decide what were going to use in the long run, i would hate to be using several different products, we got the aspen but had to toss it for awhile until cautions belly heals (had to toss both enclosures worth because they had traded enclosures ((smacks head-idiot)) we had been using katee brand bedding i cant remember the name of it now but the smell of wood (smelled like a pet store which i cant stand)


how can i "cut down" on the smell of the rats?

I would use 2 different substrates...remember you are talking about 2 completely different animals with different needs and different habits (think waste - maybe weekly for the snakes vs. hourly and lots of it)


For my rats I use Woody Pet (aka, Equine Fresh - compressed pine pellets) - no smell even after 2 weeks :D
For my snakes I use aspen and/or newspaper - depending on the season and snake

The way I cut down on the smell of the rats is just to clean regularly. Maybe use one of those scented oil plug in things(I use the green tea and mandarin one, it's awesome).

Use aspen(when pine is wet it STINKS) and mix it with yesterdays news and provide litterboxes. You can use a bit of baking soda mixed in the bedding too. Change out their hammocks every few days as well as wipe down their shelves with a very mild bleach solution(or the Clorox Anywhere spray).

They are girls, so putting vanilla in their water isn't going to help. You can bathe them once a week or every other week if you want. Baby shampoo or kitten shampoo (not anything with flea stuff in it) would be appropriate.

Also, making a spray with a bit of mint oil(very weak) in it, and spritzing everything lightly with that helps a good bit, and they like it.

A few drops of vanilla extract in their water bottle tends to keep the ammonia smell down, but otherwise, I've found the only way to keep the smell down is the replace the bedding frequently.

Shredded aspen substrate! ftw!
Its good, nay, great bedding in comparison to the reptile bark chips you would use for other reptiles, and possibly snakes.
Its a more finely shredding substrate so the snake is in no danger of harming its innards.

GREAT SUGGESTIONS!


i liked using the aspen for the snakes, never thought to use it for the rats too. right now they are on care-fresh ultra and it seems to be working well so far (only a couple days in) I know the snakeys need to be on papertowels for a couple days until cautions belly "rot"? goes away then i would like to put them both back on aspen,ill give it a go :D

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Originally Posted by SatanicIntention

Use aspen(when pine is wet it STINKS) and mix it with yesterdays news and provide litterboxes.

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Wait...your rats are litterbox trained? (In their cages of course) but.....litterbox trained?

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Wait...your rats are litterbox trained? (In their cages of course) but.....litterbox trained?

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I have heard of this but is geared more for pets than breeders.

YEAH i wanna know more about this litter training and the how-tos!

Yes, the boys are the ones who are litterbox trained. The girls, since they are in a cabinet cage with bedding on every level, it takes them longer to learn. I just get one of those cheap cat pans, fill it with yesterdays news or a paper based litter(anything that is different from their regular bedding so they can differentiate between bedding and litterbox). I start by placing some soiled bedding into the litterbox as well as some rat raisins(so they get the point), and usually they go with it.

And yes, since these are Ashleys pets, we are talking pets, not breeders in racks where they can't even stand up straight... Like having a snake in a cage so small it can't stretch out properly.

(coming from someone who doesnt do it, so take it with a grain of salt)


i couldn't imagine having our pets in any enclosure (regardless of size) in which they couldn't strech out properly i know how much my girls like to stand and look around and the thought of them not being able to do that would be sad, even if they were destined to be food. even our snakes can strech out


im not sure how we would keep our "food" animals, im sure your pressed for space when your feeding dozens of snakes. we go and purchase our food for the time being, we have thought about breeding the females for their babys and when they wean feed them off but even the thought of that saddens me.. we had bought them with that idea in mind but the more i get to know our girls the more against the idea im getting (i guess im a softy at heart) when our snakes get big enough to eat rats darren is going to have to do the dirty work, i know i cant do it, i dont even know that hes going to be able to do it.. hes started loving our rats too at first he was very much a "Rats are not pets!" kinda guy.

Exactly. I have 11 females in a 3ft x 2ft x 4ft tall custom built cabinet cage(two sets of french doors on the front), and they pingpong everywhere. They love running from the bottom ALLLL the way to the top. I'll have to take a picture, they just love it. The boys probably couldn't stay in the cabinet cage, TOO much wee! LOL. They'd rot the melamine.

Oh, and just to point it out, your Ball Pythons don't have to ever eat rats if you don't want them to. All of mine are on mice(except for the boa who eats rabbits) and have awesome growth(and I even skip a week here and there). I have an August 06 male who is 1000g now on 2 medium mice a week. I don't feed rats for personal reasons and the snakes don't take it personally :)

AWESOME becky i would love to see pics!!! also, if your busy taking pictures ;) take some of how you house all those snakes! i wouldlove to have many snakes like that but know i dont have time for them all, shoot with two children, two snakes and three rats i hardly have time for much anymore, j/k :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by AshleyB

i couldn't imagine having our pets in any enclosure (regardless of size) in which they couldn't strech out properly i know how much my girls like to stand and look around and the thought of them not being able to do that would be sad, even if they were destined to be food. even our snakes can strech out

im not sure how we would keep our "food" animals, im sure your pressed for space when your feeding dozens of snakes. we go and purchase our food for the time being, we have thought about breeding the females for their babys and when they wean feed them off but even the thought of that saddens me.. we had bought them with that idea in mind but the more i get to know our girls the more against the idea im getting (i guess im a softy at heart) when our snakes get big enough to eat rats darren is going to have to do the dirty work, i know i cant do it, i dont even know that hes going to be able to do it.. hes started loving our rats too at first he was very much a "Rats are not pets!" kinda guy.

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Remember there are many ways to keep rats even those destined to be feeders for snakes. Mike and I have always housed rats in enclosures that allow them to see outside of their enclosure, to stand upright and not be at all overcrowded. Feeders or not, we just can't get our heads around the more production manner of rat breeding. I'm not saying it's wrong...just wrong for us.

As far as being able to use rats as feeders but still enjoy them as the sociable creatures they are, that took me awhile to sort out. In the end I realized that they are in fact rats, designed by nature to be a prey animal and as long as I breed and raise them to our standards of care, and treat my permanent breeders in a way I feel is right for them and their contribution to our snake collection...then I'm okay with it. Because I watch week after week of live feeds I know the rats used as feeders do not suffer, that the snakes are offered top quality prey that were bred specifically for that function and that I'm basically just a cog in a wheel that's been going on for eons of time....just the dynamic of predator and prey...only difference is it occurs in our home.

I personally keep my mice in those huge black tubs because for them, security is key, and they can also stand up fully.

I'll try to get pics this afternoon when I am cleaning of how my racks are set up, and the rat cages.

I think I'll clean the snakes first ;)

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

Remember there are many ways to keep rats even those destined to be feeders for snakes. Mike and I have always housed rats in enclosures that allow them to see outside of their enclosure, to stand upright and not be at all overcrowded. Feeders or not, we just can't get our heads around the more production manner of rat breeding. I'm not saying it's wrong...just wrong for us.

As far as being able to use rats as feeders but still enjoy them as the sociable creatures they are, that took me awhile to sort out. In the end I realized that they are in fact rats, designed by nature to be a prey animal and as long as I breed and raise them to our standards of care, and treat my permanent breeders in a way I feel is right for them and their contribution to our snake collection...then I'm okay with it. Because I watch week after week of live feeds I know the rats used as feeders do not suffer, that the snakes are offered top quality prey that were bred specifically for that function and that I'm basically just a cog in a wheel that's been going on for eons of time....just the dynamic of predator and prey...only difference is it occurs in our home.

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I agree 100%. Just because they are feeders doesn't mean their life should not be respected. I just lost a rat(old age), Earl, who has been breeding for me for 2 1/2 years. And he is missed dearly. Although the snakes are the main reason for breeding rats they still are treated with dignity. The get treats, balanced food, fresh water and their enclosures are cleaned and maintained as best as possible. Yes their babies get fed to snakes but I also enjoy eating meat and that just how the food chain works. God made the rules not me and I'm just following the plan. I use lab rat tubs and separate my rats when they are about to give birth and alternate males to females so they can get a break and babies can be raised in a calmer enviorment. Happy rats breed better which makes for happy snakes. Respect life and it will respect you, plain and simple :sunny: