Feeding Problem

Its now 5 weeks since Holly last ate and although I have been told not to worry, I am.

The first few feeds were no probelm. She would strike and eat the f/t mice with no issue.
I havent changed anything but heres what I have.

Plastic tub with UTH
2 hides - one over UHT - one on cool side
water dish
UHT is attached to a thermostat and temps are 92F hot side, 75F cool side.

Any ideas? Do I need to worry? I will post pics of her set up this evening if it helps.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Don5999

Its now 5 weeks since Holly last ate and although I have been told not to worry, I am.

The first few feeds were no probelm. She would strike and eat the f/t mice with no issue.
I havent changed anything but heres what I have.

Plastic tub with UTH
2 hides - one over UHT - one on cool side
water dish
UHT is attached to a thermostat and temps are 92F hot side, 75F cool side.

Any ideas? Do I need to worry? I will post pics of her set up this evening if it helps.

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Bump that cool side up to around 82. Its far too cold on the cool side and most likely the ambient temp of the cage is too cold as well. How old is the snake?

She is only a baby - weighing about 142g.

Whats the best way to bump up the cool side? The UHT is only under one half.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Don5999

She is only a baby - weighing about 142g.

Whats the best way to bump up the cool side? The UHT is only under one half.

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What type of enclosure are you using? Give as much description of your setup as possible.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Don5999

She is only a baby - weighing about 142g.

Whats the best way to bump up the cool side? The UHT is only under one half.

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It seems that the room temp is probably pretty cool. So aside from getting a space heater and bumping the room temp, another UTH for the cool side with a second thermostat is the way to go. With temps that low you are risking a respiratory infection sooner or later.

How big is the tub?

Long delay so apologies.

Update: Holly is still refusing to eat!

Her tub is 22"X16"X7". The UTH is under the one half, attached to a thermostat which is directly on the UTH. Temps read between 90-92F. I am trying to bump up the cool side which reads between 75-80F.

2 identical hides but she prefers the cool one most of the time.


I am convinced I am doing something wrong, she is very active though - my corns are doing just fine - and I want the best for Holly.

Please help.....again.....


http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o.../HollyTub3.jpg

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o.../HollyTub2.jpg

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o...9/HollyTub.jpg

Have you tried prescenting, or leaving her overnight with the f/t??? Are you warming the mouse first with some warm water (in a ziplock)??

Temp and humidity are very important. If you can't get the second UTH and thermostat quickly try a very low watt light set several inches above the cool side.

Those hides also look a bit large for her, they should be snug to her on all sides, top included, try some smaller ones, and then you could always use those again once she gets bigger.

Have you tried a live mouse??

Also, what kind of substrate is that???

My thoughts looking at the pics -


You have too much empty space for her. Balls like tight spaces to feel comfortable. Add to this what sounds like you getting worried means you are more than likely trying to feed her more often and checking on her more often...so more stress for her.

Here is what I recommend -
Get smaller hides so she has to squeeze in (they like it this way)
Add crumpled newspaper to take up the extra space (or a smaller tank)
Cover the tub in a blanket or contact paper around all the one side (so it is nice and dark in there)
Finally don't try feeding her again for at least a week after you make the above changes.

It just appear she is really stressing now.

Also, 5 weeks is nothing I have had adults go off feed for several months with no issues - you just need to make sure she isn't losing too much weight.
Keep us posted.

Hi,


Everyone seems to have covered the info I was going to post so I thought I would ask a question instead.:)

Could you walk us through your feeding routine from how you defrost to how you offer and the surroundings at the time?

It might help us spot any little tips we could offer.

Also have you stopped handling her to remove that as a possible source of stress?


dr del

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jglass38

It seems that the room temp is probably pretty cool. So aside from getting a space heater and bumping the room temp, another UTH for the cool side with a second thermostat is the way to go. With temps that low you are risking a respiratory infection sooner or later.

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Definately.

Don, what is her pattern in the hides?

Does she yawn or smack alot?

Just how active is she?

Thank you all so much for your replies. I feel a little stupid cause Holly and I started off so well and then when I joined this site and got the Mat Stat hooked up she has gone off her feed.

If she is in her hides, it will invariabley be the cool side. I havent seen her in the hot side one in a while.
She will be in it every morning and normally by the time I am home from work she is out exploring.

I dont know what smack is but last night she was yawning whilst sat by the mouse that was in her tub.

Normally, I defrost by leaving the mouse out to defrost naturally as when I put it in a bag and then in water, she has refused it but then eaten one defrosted normally.
I feed in the evening. I just lay the mouse in her tub as I dont want to stress her out by getting it all up in her face. I just ensure she has noticed it. Slitting the gut or brain didnt help either.

She hasnt been handled for 4 weeks now - if I open the tub lid, she gets all inquizative and starts to come at me. I am NOT dinner!!!

Havent tried a live mouse and although I am not keen on that at all - I am willing for her sake.

Don try defrosting the mouse normally, then giving it a blast with a hot hair dryer to make sure it's got a good heat signature. Then take hemostats or even kitchen tongs, grasp the mouse by the loose hair between it's shoulder blades and walk it around her enclosure imitating lifelike movements. You don't want to shove it right in her face of course, just sort of let it wiggle by much as a live mouse would move. Ball pythons aren't naturally scavenger eaters so she made need the stimulation of "live movement" to develop her hunting instincts. Also try to keep your upper body from hanging over her and the prey...it can trigger her flight response since you are in a predator position over her. I have a couple of 07's that would not eat if we hovered too close.

I'd wait for a quiet evening after dark, watch for her to be lurking out of the entrance of her hide (don't remove her from her hide or remove anything from her enclosure) and just give this a try.

Thanks Joanna. I will try to make the tub a bit fuller - some balled up paper as previously suggested and put the dark paper round the sides to try to make her feel safer. She is in my bedroom so not too much traffic in there.

I was going to wait until Sunday again to feed her - should I bother before hand?

That really depends. If you are going to make any major enclosure tweaks I'd give her at least a few days to adjust. The problem with this situation is we aren't talking about a big adult that's got a lot of reserves to sustain it through a long fast. This is a young, small snake that does need to get settled into a proper feeding routine and get something in her belly without too many more weeks passing.

I have balled up lots of paper and hopefully that will make her feel nice and secure, I hate the fact that she seems stressed out.
So this eveing, I defrosted another mouse and heated it up. It was nice and warm and when i introduced it and wiggled it around as suggested by Joanna, she struck. Nice and hard and coiled nice and tight.
5 mins later and she let it go and it is still laying there!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Don5999

I have balled up lots of paper and hopefully that will make her feel nice and secure, I hate the fact that she seems stressed out.
So this eveing, I defrosted another mouse and heated it up. It was nice and warm and when i introduced it and wiggled it around as suggested by Joanna, she struck. Nice and hard and coiled nice and tight.
5 mins later and she let it go and it is still laying there!

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Were you watching the entire time? Sometimes having a predator (you) watching, will cause some to not eat.

I would feed live rat pups or mouse hoppers and leave overnight. They can't harm your snake and she can eat when she feels nice and secure. I have snakes that ate prekilled before and now won't even look at it. I have much better feeding predictability with live rodents. Also she might prefer rats?

No, I intentionally left the room so I wouldnt worry her.

I guess I am further on than yesterday though.....Grrrr...

Thankyou all.

Raul, the problem with suggesting live is Don lives in the UK and apparently they have some extremely tight rules about live feeding unless it's a matter of life and death for the snake.

Don, she did make progress in the strike and constriction so that's a really good thing to see that she has a feeding response. It may be that you rushed the feeding too soon after the addition/changes to her enclosure or it may be the size the f/t prey offered. What prey did you offer her this time? Also many snakes will mess about awhile before they swallow, not all of them and not all the time but some do take their time. Sometimes the babies aren't quite sure where to start swallowing but that comes with practise.

I'd leave her about 5 days and try again (as long as she's not critically thin or losing weight fast). Once she's nailed the mouse, leave the room, make sure it's completely dark and quiet and don't go back for at least 30 minutes to an hour. The prey's dead so absolutely no issue with her safety there.

Basically snakes must feel safe in order to feed. The act of swallowing a whole prey leaves them incredibly vulnerable. They can't easily fight or flee with a mouth full of mouse or rat. So if they don't feel totally safe, they will break off the hunt, refuse to swallow or even halfway down, spit back the food (not a regurge). Even an adult can do this. I accidentally bumped the tub of one of our mature females while she was eating. She spat the half swallowed rat back at me, and went off to her hide, refusing to finish dinner because I obviously scared her with my clumsiness.

Last question Don. Where is her enclosure located in your home?

She is in my bedroom, in the corner. Not a huge amount of traffic and she is up fairly high.

any luck Don?

*UPDATE*

Today, Holly ate! I am over the moon and so relieved.
At first she was not at all interested and I had to remove the mouse and heat it up a wee bit again.
And then she took it!

THANK YOU ALL!