Unborn Snake! (warning graphic images)

I took these pictures for those of you who may be interested. I initially was going tocall this a fetus, but after further study, I found out that that applies to mammals. If someone knows the term for a snake prior to it's birth, please let me know the correct term. For now I will still call it a snake.

The preliminary information is that this was part of a clutch of Cinnamon to Normal. The clutch consisted of 5 eggs. The remaining goods eggs, I cut yesterday, and contain 2 Cinnamons and 2 Normals. I believe that this snake would have been a Cinnamon from the faint pattern that I can see. This egg was originally marked as infertile when it was laid. After about 2 weeks, the veins started to come in, and I thought the egg would be fine. 40 days in to incubation, the egg still looked good, and had even started to dimple. At day 42 when I attempted to candle the eggs, to see what we were going to hatch, I have no patience, I could not make out any pattern in this egg. Somewhere around day 47, the egg started to go bad. I decided to leave the egg in the box, until day 52, when I normally cut eggs. Well, by day 52, it was definitely a goner, but I thought some of you may want to see what is going on inside of an egg. Here are the pics.

This is right after cutting the top off of the egg.
http://www.baileyreptiles.com/pics/fetusa.jpg

This is a pic, for size comparison, of the snake next to the egg, and next to a pair of cuticle scissors.
http://www.baileyreptiles.com/pics/fetusb.jpg

This last pic is a closer picture of the head. I have cutopenmany eggs at different stages of going bad, and this is typically what the head looks like. It is usually very round looking, even at day 4 or 5 into incubation. I have never had one go bad at say day 45 or so, so that I could cut and see what they look like at that stage. Even though the egg went bad, visually, at day 47 or so, my guess would be that the snake was actually dead somewhere in the late 30's.
http://www.baileyreptiles.com/pics/fetusc.jpg

Thanks for looking, and I thought some may find this interesting,

WOW Tim, that is sad but I do fine it to be very interesting also. I've always wondered what they look like, but haven't had the guts to get a "bad egg" out of the trash can at work and cut it open. Thank you for sharing.

Sad yet interesting.

I'd say about day 30 as well Tim.

Good post.

Lots of people don't realize the "other side" of producing these amazing animals. You gotta take the good with the bad.

-adam

Iam sorry for you loss. However Iam glad that you took these pictures. It not only shows the "dramatic" side of breeding, but also the development process being taken in the world of the snake egg.

I found this very interesting. Thank you so much.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by muddoc

I took these pictures for those of you who may be interested. I initially was going tocall this a fetus, but after further study, I found out that that applies to mammals. If someone knows the term for a snake prior to it's birth, please let me know the correct term. For now I will still call it a snake.

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I would say embryo...but I am not 100% sure.

The head looks funky,lol. Too bad he didnt make it :(

very interesting post! I have also wondered what a bad egg would look like inside.

Thanks for all of the replies. I am glad that it had the result that it did on those who have commented. Breeding is a blast, and I would never give it up, but there is some bad to go with the good. I guess that is in all things that we do. This was primarily an informational post, and I'm glad it has done it's purpose so far.

Good post & pics...

I've produced one or two of those before...Not Fun...

Aw...sorry you lost an egg, but that is amazing! It's really fasinating to see at least one stage of the development. You can find developmental stages of human babies, and even some other mammals, but that is something that i haven't ever seen. Thanks for sharing the pics, and good luck with the rest of the clutches!! ^_^

sorry about the egg.

but thanks for sharing the pics. :)

very interesting post.

Amazing educational thread here, Tim! Thank you very much for sharing this with us. (And thanks for the warning in the thread title...always a thoughtful gesture! ;) )

very sad that the little one did not make it ,but the post and pics were very interesting...thanks for the post

I'm so sorry that it didn't make it. But it is kind of cool to see what they look like in the middle of development... Thank you so much for posting!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by muddoc

I took these pictures for those of you who may be interested. I initially was going tocall this a fetus, but after further study, I found out that that applies to mammals. If someone knows the term for a snake prior to it's birth, please let me know the correct term. For now I will still call it a snake.

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Fetus is not necessarily a mammalian term, but rather that of viviparous (a.k.a. live-bearing) animals. An unborn boa, for instance, is called a fetus. But those that are oviparous (egg-laying) there isn't really an equivalent term. Scientifically speaking, the unborn snake is called an embryo until birth, unlike viviparous which go from embryo to fetus. However many people do tend to call them fetus's all the same for lack of a better term, the EFSA (European Food Safety Administration), even calls an unborn snake a fetus when discussing food contact to oviparous eggs.

Those are some very interesting pictures, I would like to have seen it in person. As sad as it was to lose a suspected cinnamon, this is an interesting way to learn something from the loss.

Ben,
I do understand viviparous and oviparous. However, I couldn't find the equivalent term for the fetus. Thanks for the explanation, it was much appreciated. I knew somone would come along and help me out. I agree on the interesting way to learn. I believe that if something bad happens, then try to make the best of it. What better way to learn than to turn around a bad situation. I also recently cut open a snake that I had that died, that was a recomendation of Adam's, to learn more about my snakes, and also to see if I could pinpoint a cause of death. (it appears that she had a hemorage near her heart) I always enjoy learning something new, however it comes to be.

Once again, I'm glad that everyone was able to learn a little something from this post.

Tim,


Did that egg look like a slug from the beginning? And how big was it? I have not tried candeling anyof the slugs yet, so I would be curious to see if any veins show up at all.

Neil

Neil,
It did not look like a slug. It looked like a perfectly good egg from the outside. It was about 90 grams like he rest. It just didn't have the strength to fight the good fight I guess.

OK, well thats too bad that he did not make it. The pics are interesting though, I guess its a good reminder that things can and do go wrong during development.


Neil

Ouch that bites :( .

wow, interesting... sad though. thanks for sharing

aawww:tears::(:tears:

Zombie alert.