Still not eating!

Hi,

Would welcome some advice on Brian as we heading toward four months now and no feed.


Latest news is:

Failed on small mouse left in over night. I didn't chase Brian with this one as he has always run away from the others and seems scared by food. As a consequence I don't think he even realized it was there. Replaced paper in morning when I removed the mouse and found both Toilet 1 & 2! Just measured him at 3ft 10" and he's weighing in at 1.414kg.

Being a sad ICT teacher Brian's whole history since I had him is here

and you can see the current set up in the pictures here

This is just my own personal site so nothing for sale or to gain!!

Current temp range from low 79 - 81 and high 89 - 93. The small hides on the floor are just big enough for him. He often lifts them slightly and moves the door around as he moves!!

Any ideas?

I sounds, looks like your doing everything about right, the links are working... if he is healthy just give him lots of privacy and I'm sure he'll start eating again before long.

Try feeding different ways( Frozen thawed, Rats) and make sure the prey is not too large, but you don't have to worry about that with mice. Only try once a week so you don't stress the snake out too much.

Thats my advice
Jordan

Has he ever eatten for you? I glanced at that page you have, but all the feed attempts I saw were failed. How long have you had him? Sorry if all of that stuff is in another thread or something, I don't ever remember who posted what ^_^ Anyways, what was he eating last time he ate?

Nope he has never eaten for me. He apparently ate 4 times in row for breeder before being sold to pet shop where I collected him from that same week so he didn't eat for the pet shop either not that they tried!

Not sure what I have been trying him on. Think small to medium rats and mice. Tried a gerbil once.

One item we forgot to mention when we posted was that I live in a flat next to a motorway into a city. I can't feel any vibrations but there is a bit of noise - as for the snake I have no idea what he feels or hears.

Please advise guys - I'm a at a loss

I've had the same problem for almost 3 months now. My Pastel female was scared of f/t mice and rats! I have tried everything, but she didn't want to eat. So yesterday I looked in her tub and she was out of her hide, looking very skinny. I went to the store immediately and bought a living mouse. I put the mouse in the tub and it took her less than a minute to grab that mouse :carrot:

Give it a try!
Good luck

I am so so tempted to go down the live animal route but my breeder is reluctant to recommend it. Seems to be a UK/US thing about FT and Live. Trouble is my snake was a breeding male and his last owner (a breeder) sold of a bunch of his breeding males of which Brian was one. They had all been fed on ft rats which he bred. So he has grown up on FT do I want to go down this route and get stuck on it. Maybe he just ain't hungry - I'm running out of ideas on this one!

I'm also ware my viv is slightly on the large side so am building a two tier 3ft x 18" x 18" so I can house a female as well. Its not like I don't already have enough problems with one! So maybe this is the last of two things being wrong. The other being the road noise although I think this is unlikely.

Cheers for the continued advice, live is defo an option but I may try some small rats first.

Chris

Alright, try a smaller enclosure and leave him alone for a while. I don't think road noise is the problem, animals get used to things like that. But if the smaller enclosure doesn't work, I don't think there's another option than a live rodent. I prefer f/t too, but now my girl ate, I'm very happy I fed her a living mouse!

And between me and you.....it's not THAT bad to feed live.... :eek:

I think at some point, you may have to try live with Brian. I can understand your hesitance, but if it boils down to his health vs a moral delimma, I'd have to go with health (although I'm not suggesting that you are anywhere near having to make that decision at this point - if the pictures you have of him are accurate, he's not in any danger of starving to death right now).


I don't know if it helps or not, but I've always fed live, and I've never had any problems. If you decide you want to try that, please don't hesitate to ask any questions you have on how to feed live (choosing prey size, how to offer, etc).

So...

I tried to feed him this evening, with a small rat (almost 3 inches long ex tail). He showed some interest (tongue flicking, came out of his hide to look at it) but then lost interest and began to back off and hiss when I brought it nearer to him.

It was almost like he decided it wasn't food.

Has anyone else had similar experiences and if so, what do you think they are caused by?

Thanks for the advice.

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Originally Posted by porangi.chris

I am so so tempted to go down the live animal route but my breeder is reluctant to recommend it. Seems to be a UK/US thing about FT and Live.

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I'm absolutely positive your snake doesn't know what country it's in.

If the advice your breeder gave you isn't working, and you asked for advice here, it's irritating that the advice given is being blown off.

Its not a case of not taking advice I'm just reluctant to feed live as it gives me a whole new set of hassles also my supplier has been reluctant to advise it till now. As a new owner I feel a little out my depth with different advice coming at me from all angles. I listen to all suggestions and take what is the general consensus which has now reached try live and/or smaller viv.

Spoke to supplier this morning and plan now is. Stay as is until I go away in early august then the little beast is going back to shop where they will try live etc for me whilst they board him for around 3 weeks. Depending on the outcome I'll either get a feeding Brian back or exchange for something that does feed!

One thought about Brian is that he was a breeding male kept in a tub for upto 3 years. I have been wondering whether he is finding it hard to adapt to life in a display viv regardless of its size. Which leaves me thinking... As I only want one or two snakes as display pets would I be better with something else and would Brian be better as a breeder kept in a tub. Do balls bought up from babies as display snakes do better then ones bought up in tubs and then moved into display vivs later in life?

Foolish it may be but I'm kind of trusting my supplier as:
A: I have to deal with him face to face - not a good reason I know.
B: He's been a keeper of all reptiles but in particular snakes for 30 years now and has everything in the shop ranging from corns and balls to retics etc etc. and this is not including the vast selection of venoms he houses.

However I also value your advice because its an alternative opinion and allows me to form a better understanding of my options rather than just following blindly. So please don't be offended if I don't just jump as you say its not personal - just like a ball I'm contemplating and making my mind up slowly!

Chris

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Originally Posted by porangi.chris

Its not a case of not taking advice I'm just reluctant to feed live as it gives me a whole new set of hassles also my supplier has been reluctant to advise it till now. As a new owner I feel a little out my depth with different advice coming at me from all angles. I listen to all suggestions and take what is the general consensus which has now reached try live and/or smaller viv.

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Completely understandable. For someone just learning, I'm sure it can be somewhat overwhelming to hear 10 different people toss out advice at the same time. Even if they're saying basically the same thing, there'll always be differences and different ways of saying it...which can sometimes feel like a big babble. It takes patience to wade through it all and sort it out, that's for sure.

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Spoke to supplier this morning and plan now is. Stay as is until I go away in early august then the little beast is going back to shop where they will try live etc for me whilst they board him for around 3 weeks. Depending on the outcome I'll either get a feeding Brian back or exchange for something that does feed!

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Sounds like a plan. Maybe not what I would have chosen to do, but that doesn't mean it's not a workable plan. ;)

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One thought about Brian is that he was a breeding male kept in a tub for upto 3 years. I have been wondering whether he is finding it hard to adapt to life in a display viv regardless of its size.

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I've been following this thread, and I do believe this is a critical piece of information that has been missing. A ball python can very well be quite attached to the security of a tub/rack environment and not adjust easily to a glass viv...especially an adult who is more set in their ways. That is a very likely reason he has refused to eat for you.

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Which leaves me thinking... As I only want one or two snakes as display pets would I be better with something else and would Brian be better as a breeder kept in a tub. Do balls bought up from babies as display snakes do better then ones bought up in tubs and then moved into display vivs later in life?

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If you start out with a baby, I think you'll be more likely to get one that will adjust to a glass viv. However...ball pythons really stink as "display pets" anyhow. They spend 99.2% of their lives sound asleep in their hides...and when they are going to be out and about, it will likely be only when you're asleep and no one is around to watch them. There are a lot of other species of snakes that are easy to care for that would make better display animals and thrive in a glass tank.

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Foolish it may be but I'm kind of trusting my supplier as:
A: I have to deal with him face to face - not a good reason I know.

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I don't think that's so foolish, unless due to meeting him face to face, you feel you have reason to be less than confident in him. There's a lot to be said for looking someone in the eye, shaking their hand, and watching the way they treat their animals and the people around them. If you think you're supplier is a good guy who knows his stuff....then GREAT! He doesn't have to be some big-name guy that everyone on the Internet has heard of. ;)

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B: He's been a keeper of all reptiles but in particular snakes for 30 years now and has everything in the shop ranging from corns and balls to retics etc etc. and this is not including the vast selection of venoms he houses.

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Maybe he can help you choose a snake that is better suited to a glass viv and daytime activity?

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However I also value your advice because its an alternative opinion and allows me to form a better understanding of my options rather than just following blindly. So please don't be offended if I don't just jump as you say its not personal - just like a ball I'm contemplating and making my mind up slowly!

Chris

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We're here to help. Sometimes we get a bit carried away and a bit frustrated if it seems like someone refuses the help we offer. But really, all we can do is lay out our thoughts and ideas....and it is up to each person reading to decide what ideas will work for them and what won't. We can't make anyone more willing to learn and/or change than they already are....but sometimes we really try. :P

Sounds to me like you're doing your best and I'm sure you'll get something worked out one way or another. I wish you all the best!

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Originally Posted by porangi.chris

However I also value your advice because its an alternative opinion and allows me to form a better understanding of my options rather than just following blindly. So please don't be offended if I don't just jump as you say its not personal - just like a ball I'm contemplating and making my mind up slowly!

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I'm not at all offended, I just get very frustrated when people ask for advice and then ignore what I feel is excellent information. I see now that some vital information was left out of this thread, and I agree that trying a live feeding would not be the best option for this snake. Had I known that the snake had been in a tub for 3 years before, it would have been apparent that your intent wasn't what I perceived.

I'm wondering why you chose to get a ball though, if what you want is a display snake. Balls really don't make great display pets, as they stay hidden as much as possible. I've never had corns or kings, but my perception is that they are also much easier to keep, husbandry-wise. Please don't take that the wrong way, I'm not saying you shouldn't keep any kind of snake you choose. I like the challenge involved in keeping balls, it's fun for me. I'm just wondering :)

I've been doing some reading and research on how wild caught adults get used to being captive and the issues therein. You might be interested to know that the Barkers (VPI) actually mention adult captive bred snakes as having many of the same issues when they are suddenly removed from an environment and routine that is all they've known their entire existance. This might be a lot of the reason this adult male has been such a challenge for you.

Perhaps during your three weeks away from the snake you can have some time to step back and assess what you really want in a pet snake. Questions like...

1) what size snake do I feel most comfortable with (at it's full mature size)

2) what species of snake really interests me

3) how much handling do I like to do with a snake

4) do I like to watch my snake explore it's home

5) how much room do I have to devote to appropriate caging

Once you can define a bit about what you want from a snake, then you can start looking for a species that best fits your life, your needs and what you can offer a snake. Once you defined that, then a nice well started hatchling from a good breeder of that species will likely be the best choice for you. There's so many types of snakes that really I believe there's a snake to fit every owner as long as you do that homework/research first.

Just to toss another idea out there as far as display snakes go.... I have a 4 1/2 foot bull snake (wild caught) in a 58 gallon aquarium in my living room. He is out and about much of the day, exploring, and watching me watching him. He is an absolutely fascinating snake to watch. If I'm messing around near his cage, he watches my every move, causing me to wonder what's going through his mind. I'm convinced he possesses above average snake intelligence! Highly recommended display snake!

Steve

Thanks frankkeno:

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

1) what size snake do I feel most comfortable with (at it's full mature size)

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Something that is safe for one person with my experience to handle. It can grow with me - thats fine. but I can't be sure I'll have others around.

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

2) what species of snake really interests me

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Pythons or Boas. Found Balls interesting to start but my horizons are expanding as I learn. Currently thinking about carpets. Discounted Columbian Red Tails on account of their size but they look amazing.

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

3) how much handling do I like to do with a snake

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Would depend on snake and which week it was. Once or twice a week if possible.

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

4) do I like to watch my snake explore it's home

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Yes and never seemed to have a problem watching Brian - he would always come out at about 11.30 for 30 minutes and then head back to his ranch.

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

5) how much room do I have to devote to appropriate caging

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Currently have a 3ft x 2ft x2ft but just built a two tier 3ft x 18" x 18"

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Originally Posted by SarahMB

I'm wondering why you chose to get a ball though, if what you want is a display snake.

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Two years ago I wouldn't have touched a snake - I had the fear. A royal was recommended to me as an easy option if you didn't get a fussy feeder. I planned to get a baby and think I wouldn't be having less of these problems if I had but this one came along and I went for it. Hide sight is a wonderful thing. Anyway I have since learnt a lot and maybe if I was to do it again I wouldn't get a ball. Been thinking recently about a jungle carpet or IR carpet.