Need help and advice quick please

I got two baby balls about three weeks ago, a male and a female. Neither would eat for me, but I finally got the female to start to eat small adult mice, whe won't take them if they're dead. The female eats fine now, but two days after eating the mouse she regurgitated it, and now she has another in her clutches, so I'm hoping she will keep this one down. The male still will not eat, so two days ago I force fed him a pinkie. Now he is acting like he has IBD, but I think that he's starving to death because I was told that the symptoms are similar. Is it possible for him to starve with food in his stomach? What should I do now? Any hlep is tremendously appreciated.

please check the list of local vets here:

http://arav.com/USMembers.htm

We can't tell you as well as a herp vet could.

Thaks for the quick reply, I found one listed, now I've just got to find his number. Thanks again.

you're welcome. I hope all works out well for you.

Where did you get your ball pythons? and can you briefly explain a little about your set up? Have you read over any care sheets to make sure they're properly housed? If not, here's a great caresheet: http://ball-pythons.net/modules.php?...warticle&id=59

I got them from Newts Pets, and they have been great to deal with. I have the babies in a ten gallon setup with an under tank pad and red heat lamp on one side, the temp hovers aroung 90, this side has an artificail limb and a hiding hole then on the other side I have a large water dish and there is another hiding hole for them. The temps on that side are ususlly in the mid 80s. We have douglas fir bark for substrate. If you see where I'm doing anything wrong with the setup please let me know. Thanks for the assist.

Housing them together is the main problem, and it is obviously affecting both of them negatively. They are very stressed out right now and are having to compete for space, hiding places, heat, etc.

Definitely get another 10 gallon tank or two 15qt sterilite tubs and set them up singly. Let them relax for a week or more, no handling, and make sure you are measuring their temperatures with digital thermometers/hygrometers. You also need a quality thermostat to properly control the undertank heater so it doesn't spike and burn your snakes. Each enclosure needs two identical hides, a small water bowl, and substrate. You can even fill the cages with loosely crumpled newspaper to give them additional hiding places and to just take up room.

First things first though, get them separated and properly housed.

I already seperated them, and will get the setup completed for the female done asap. I was using the digital thermometers, but not a thermostat, will add that to the list. Right now I'm just hoping that the little male will live. I'm waiting for the vet to call me back because I'm still debating on force feeding him again, but I'm afraid the stress would do more good than the feeding. Hopefully the vet will have some insight. Thanks for the advice.

Don't forcefeed again unless the vet does it or instructs you too. Especially if he's acting sick, that is only going to mega-stress him out.

if i read correctly your feeding baby bp's small adult mice? no wonder she regurged on you, buy small hoppers for now, small adult mice is way too big for them, after you get them eating hoppers regularly, watch to see when one hopper a week doesn't do it anymore then move up a size in mice, you'll be able to tell when 1 hopper a week isn't enough by them patroling their cage or other hungry signs before their next feed day hope this helps.
your feeding schedule should be once a week for babies, once every 10-14 days for adults, if you can't get him to eat one week, just skip it and wait till the next week, bp's can go months without food

They were eating small adults when I got them, and that was all that I could find to purchase, plus the female is considerably larger than the male. I thought that the mice seemed big too, but I felt that I had to try something. If the baby bps can go that long without feeding, then there is something else wrong with the male. Vet said it sounded like a bacterial infection in his digestive system, but needs a fecal sample to make sure. I found a local vet who wants me to bring him in, so he's off to the vet now. Hopefully things will be ok. Thanks for the input.

So how is the male acting?

He actually passed away that same day, and the female passed away last night. I had made a ton of modifications to the setup based upon advice from a very experienced breeder. I sent pics of the tank setup and temp measurements from various points throughout the tank and we thought we had everything worked out. The female seemed to be more active and I was confident that she was going to be fine. I checked on her last night before I went to bed and she seemed a little skinny, but otherwise ok. I had been trying to find some hoppers or something to feed her instead of the small mice, and we really didn't think that she was in any danger. I'm wondering if the high temps that I originally had were just too much for her. We would really love to have one, my wife has wanted one since she was a little girl, but after failing with these, I won't take the chance of killing another, we love the animals too much for that. I really appreciate all the help and advice that everyone gave me, everybody on this site was extremely friendly, knowledgeable, and supportive. Thanks again.

I've very sorry. One loss is bad.. It must be terrible to lose them both...

You should think about getting one from a reputable breeder. This was a very bad first experience, but I don't think it was your fault.

I can't complain about the breeder, he was nothing but helpful to me throughout the process, both through email and the telephone. I did run into two major setbacks, one was that there isn't but one source around here for live food, and the selection was very limited. The second setback was that the closest vet that I could find who specializes in snakes is almost 3 hours away. I really think that the tank setup was bad initially, and my inexperience was what the biggest problem was. The snakes were both very healthy and everything when I forst got them. I haven't even told my wife yet, no need in upsetting her while she is at work, that's gonna be the toughest part because we were so sure that we had everything just right for the female. We spent a bunch of money on her the other day trying to get the tank perfect, and even spent a good bit on getting these feeder mice setup so that they would breed and keep us a steady supply of food. Now I have two feeder mice and a breeder pair that I have to take care of.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SatanicIntention

Housing them together is the main problem, and it is obviously affecting both of them negatively. They are very stressed out right now and are having to compete for space, hiding places, heat, etc.

Definitely get another 10 gallon tank or two 15qt sterilite tubs and set them up singly. Let them relax for a week or more, no handling, and make sure you are measuring their temperatures with digital thermometers/hygrometers. You also need a quality thermostat to properly control the undertank heater so it doesn't spike and burn your snakes. Each enclosure needs two identical hides, a small water bowl, and substrate. You can even fill the cages with loosely crumpled newspaper to give them additional hiding places and to just take up room.

First things first though, get them separated and properly housed.

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Well the problem might be (and probably is) that their being housed together.. But personally, I have two balls, a male and female, housed together with no problem. Their in a 50 gallon, and the female is about 2 1/2 ft. and the male is about 19in. and they are fine together. I knew when I got the baby to house them seperately, and I did. I was afraid to even have them by eachother in fear or Rin (the female), eating Jack (the male). But after too many escapes out of his enclosures, I had to put Jack in with her at least untill I could get a new cage.. again.. but it ended up working better- Jack started eating better, and Rin did too (they were both picky eaters).
But I must admit, this is probably just a really unique thing. But Im just saying that to point out- it may or may not be the problem.

They were probably picky eaters because your housing wasn't adequate. Your male escaped numerous times, and your female is in a 50 gallon tank. Are your temperatures and humidity up to par yet or are you still working on that? They are probably only eating because they are having to compete for food in their minds. It's either eat or you don't get to eat.

What happens if one day your male decides that your female is ready to breed and she gets eggbound from being too small? Or if your female decides that the male looks tasty and he's gone the next day? What if one regurgitates from not being able to properly thermoregulate, or from a badly digested rodent, and you don't know which one to take to the vet? Are both of your snakes free from internal parasites? I know your male came from a pet store, where he was kept with ALOT of other babies, and lord knows what he contracted. If you didn't get a fecal done at the vet to check for internal parasites, your female will get them too. And what if one gets a respiratory infection? Or if one has diarrhea?

That is a really poor excuse for housing your animals together; because your male kept escaping... A 15qt tub, two small hides, water bowl, substrate, binder clips/bungee cord, heat pad, and thermostat is all you would have needed to keep your male safe and secure.

Thats really unfortunate, I'm sorry for you. But I dont think it's something to get discouraged over. As with many animals, everyone wants a baby. Unfortunately the problem with young ball pythons is that many times they aren't feeding when they get sold, I think more so from the pet store situation. I think that and with the stress of being moved into a new habitat, and together, just was the straw that broke the camels back. [just from what i read quickly]

I think that you two are caring enough that you dished out some good money for their habitat and husbandry. That's great! Because you do care, really, dont be so upset and discouraged you will never get another ball python again.
The next time, should you want another, find a reputable breeder. Alot of breeders cruise around this site, and most will be very willing to help.

It is tempting to get another, especially now that I have learned so much more about them. From perusing around on this site for a few days I have learned much much more than I did when I looked up the care issues on the internet in general. For example I had read that the temps needed to be close to 100 on the hot side, and to never feed them in their enclosure just to name a couple of things. The breeder that I got them from has expressed a desire to send me a couple more, but I don't feel that it's fair for him to replace the snakes because of my bad husbandry. The major reason that I'm scared to get another is because my wife was so strongly attached to them, and if another dies it would break her heart again. She says that she doesn't want to go through it again. I really can't thank everybody enough for the kind words and the support.

Hi,

Well if your sure that the husbandry is now bang on then any new pet you get should be fine hopefully so your wife should be spared any more heartbreak.

Your breeder sounds like a good guy who cares about his customers and animals so getting another from him doesn't set of any alarm bells or anything.

How about just getting one from him this time and, if all seems fine, getting another at a later stage? And of course if he won't accept any money there is always the option of making a donation to a charity or animal shelter that he supports or something similar.:)


dr del

for both of them to die so close together somethings up there i think, that's just too close to be "bad husbandry" i'd be leaning towards infections and diseases etc, make sure you bleach your enclosure before reusing it :)

What a terrible string of events, like said, it's very odd they both happened to pass away so close to each other.

On another note, if you read the threads here and got some good knowledge I guarentee you will have a much more rewarding experience this time around. You only need a few things to properly care for a BP and once you have that dialed in it's a peice of cake. For an inexpensive setup that is perfect for BPs you should seriously think about using a tub (rubbermaid) setup. BP's feel very secure in these setups and they are easy to maintain. An aquarium tank setup is proborably the least advised of all your normal options such as Plastic (www.animalplastics.com) and the tub setup mentioned above. Tanks are much harder to monitor temps in and they do not typically hold humidity levels at the proper levels without modification.

All the best BP breeders out there ship snakes and does so with great success. My two favs here are NERD (new england reptile distributors) which is where I got my snake and 8Ball Pythons. Both of which post here and both of which get rave reviews from all that bought snakes from them. You would also most likely have a much less stressful time if you were to buy a slightly older snake maybe a few months old who is already started on frozen thawed mice. This way you can just order your frozen prey items on the net and not need to worry about finding a live food source while keeping a good supply on hand.

Good luck, I hope you and your wife can get by this and give it another shot. It is truely a great experience keeping BP's and to watch them thrive and grow is just great for a lack of a better word.