Taming my new jungle carpet

I got an near-adult jungle carpet this weekend. It was from a local breeder who apparently was changing his mind about breeding carpets (I was at the exotics store when he came in to trade it for a boa). Its about 5-6 feet long and about as big around as a 12-ounce soda can. Also, he doesn't handle his snakes so this thing isn't tame. It doesn't seem to want to bite but it is very jumpy to the touch. Unlike my BP this thing is very fast and very strong and still a bit intimidating to me. Getting it out of the enclosure is scary because once it's touched it gets very active and quickly gets into a position where it could strike you if it wanted to. So far there have been no attempts to bite but it does start huffing after being handled for a little while. This seems to be because it is trying to get away and eventually gets frusterated. Right now I've done four very small handling sessions (1 to 5 minutes) and each one has been a little longer.

I'm looking for any advice on how to work with it and accounts of similar experiences.

I would give him a good week just to acclimate to his surroundings before attempting any handling. :)

So the whole "put a new snake into it's enclosure and allow it at least a week to settle in before feeding and handling" advice we always give has pretty much gone over your head Bear? What would you expect any creature to do? This is only Monday, you said you got this snake over this weekend and listed four handling attempts already. What is your rush with this snake?

I'm not handling him all the time. I'm leaving him alone for the most part and have his cage covered.

Two handlings were in the store to check him out before I bought him, one was when I got him home to move him from his tiny plastic carriers to a 20gal until his 90gal is ready. Last night I took him out to clean up poopy-doos.

So, I'm really just describing my experiences during these extremely short sessions. Since I had to take him out anyway I did't think there was much harm in letting him crawl on me for a minute or two. I put him back immediately once he showed signs of stress.

I did (and do) plan on giving him a good while to acclimate. I wanted to hear more about carpets in particular. I don't see how asking a simple question deserves hostility and negative reps.

the one week rule is fine and dandy, but carpets don't stress like balls do so i wouldn't be worried, the more time you spend with him the better and quicker he will "accept" you, i'd handle once a day raising the time limit till he gets grumpy everytime, soon you'll have a puppy dog

BCI's aren't known to stress as easily as ball pythons either but I think any new snake deserves that one week, hands off routine. It's only a week, what could it hurt and it certainly can help any snake, regardless of species, to de-stress and have a chance to explore it's new home without our interference.

yea, true i can't disagree with that :) i always wait a week too, but to each their own

yea, the people at the pet store did not seem to think he needed much hands-off time which is why I was asking here. I've also read on other sites that taking a fairly assertive stance with them is necessary.

Part of the problem is that I'm eager to establish at least a basic working relationship with him. Right now I'm really not comfortable sticking my hand in there to work on stuff with him in there. Even though its much more disruptive I feel alot better taking the time actually pick him up and get him out of there.

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Originally Posted by jeffjr464

the one week rule is fine and dandy, but carpets don't stress like balls do so i wouldn't be worried, the more time you spend with him the better and quicker he will "accept" you, i'd handle once a day raising the time limit till he gets grumpy everytime, soon you'll have a puppy dog

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He surely doesn't act anything like a ball python. BP's are scared and want to hide. This guy has a disposition more like he's really pissed and wants to know "Who the heck are you and what the heck do you think you're doing pal? Don't make me hurt you."

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Originally Posted by bearhart

yea, the people at the pet store did not seem to think he needed much hands-off time which is why I was asking here. I've also read on other sites that taking a fairly assertive stance with them is necessary.

Part of the problem is that I'm eager to establish at least a basic working relationship with him. Right now I'm really not comfortable sticking my hand in there to work on stuff with him in there. Even though its much more disruptive I feel alot better taking the time actually pick him up and get him out of there.

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Is it imperative to do it right away, and not give him a week to get used to his new home? What's their lifespan? Is a week really going to make that much of a difference? :confuzd:

Sorry, maybe my post wasn't clear. I'm eager because I still have to take care of him during that time. I have to change his water and clean up after him, etc. I don't particularly like trying to do that stuff with him in there since he's very good at shuffling around and staying in strike pose. I don't think he wants to strike me but its very unnerving. Oddly enough, I find it much less unnerving to take him out first.

What about just getting a piece of cardboard to block him from your hand while you get the water dish out?

yea I actually did that last night. After I got done with potty cleanup I realized that his water had gotten some bedding in it. I didn't want to push my luck trying to get him out again and that was the solution I came up with. It was kind of clumsy trying to get him to move and keep the lid on (even with a helper) and then trying to do everything in a tiny space but it was OK.

I'm sure all of this will be easier when he's in his 90gal. Also, his mood will surely start improving.

I'm rushing to get his tank set up today. Hopefully it will be done by tonight.

:carrot:

regardless of whether or not you handle him regularly he will settle down if he's going to settle down...

what i mean to say is that it's my experience that carpets reach a point in life where its almost like they give up on being mean. the biggest thing is to be confident in your movements and handle him properly every time you take him out.... if you do that, you'll be fine. and believe me - i have had some extremely mean carpets!

You know I'm finding this out. Before I was trying to be very gentle and just lighting touching him to warn him I was going to pick him up. This FREAKS him right out.

Even though he wasn't biting I eventually decided to get a glove so that I could be more confident when initially handling him. I've found that if you just grab his neck firmly there is almost no reaction!

I fed him for the first time today. I'm still impressed...

oh yea - and I should say that I've down 2 or 3 short handling sessions so far. So far each one is better in some respect. Things tend to go downhill once he gets fixated on crawling on something nearby me. I do a sort of endless-treadmill trick with my hands so that I'm not really restraining him but he just never gets anywhere. eventually he gets pissed and starts huffing at me alot.

I figure notable progress each time is a good thing so I'm optimistic. And, I'm not going to be put out if he never totally tames down.

Also, he's gotten pretty happy with his tank. He comes out at night and drapes across all his branches - its really cool!

That thread mill trick is a great way to work with him. This method is really nice for scrubs. Once they get a fixed point of moment like you standing next to them they become defensive. If you keep them moving in your hands they seem to do better. So this seems to apply in your case also. You know most jungles clam down with handeling, but some don't. Keep handeling him, he hasn't take a swipe at you yet so thats a plus. You should buy a Hook and practice using it to hook him out of the cage. Its nice to have a little distance betewwn you and the Teeth. ;)

You should try to feed him its a good indicator of how adjusted he is. I have had snake eat hours after being shipped some take weeks. So is it taking rats?

Chuck

Yea I fed him Sunday. I tossed a live rat in the cage and, in no time, was given an impressive show. Except for some distant childhood memories of watching a boa, I've only seen a ball hunt. Chewie (JCP) was much more aggressive in closing the distance between him and the rat and once he had it cornered he got into strike position and then started doing these slow circular swaying motions.

The guys at the pet store strongly suggest not feeding him in-cage. Their thinking is that you can get away with in-cage feeding with BPs but that they are really an exception to the rule. I feed my BP out-of-cage anyway and would be inclined to do the same with my JCP. But right now he's just not used to being taken out of his cage. I eventually decided that it would be best to make things as easy as possible on him for the time being.

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Originally Posted by Chuck

You should buy a Hook and practice using it to hook him out of the cage. Its nice to have a little distance betewwn you and the Teeth. ;)
Chuck

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Yea, I'm sure he's got some good chompers in there. I'd rather not find out the hard way! :O Right now I'm putting a leather gardening glove on one hand. I use the gloved hand to grab his neck and then my other hand to support his body as I take him out. I'm getting better at it. I'm finding that quicker, more confident movements tend to get it over with more quickly. If I chicken out and let him pull back on me then it drags the whole thing out and he gets more agitated.

Once I've got him out I take the glove off and he's pretty cool. I think I'm going to try handling him with lots of space around me in all directions so that he doesn't become fixated on trying to crawl over onto something. I would be really stoked if I could get him to fully relax for me. that's one thing I haven't gotten him to do yet. He's not aggressive at but he's also clearly not comfortable yet. I don't think he's ever been handled so it might take a little while. And, if he doesn't tame down, that's OK too.

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Originally Posted by bearhart

The guys at the pet store strongly suggest not feeding him in-cage. Their thinking is that you can get away with in-cage feeding with BPs but that they are really an exception to the rule. I feed my BP out-of-cage anyway and would be inclined to do the same with my JCP. But right now he's just not used to being taken out of his cage. I eventually decided that it would be best to make things as easy as possible on him for the time being.

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So what is different about JCPs in regards to in-cage feeding?

Just feed him in the cage. I have never felt feeding out of the cage gives you any benefits. It can actually cause you problems, especially with picky feeding animals. If a snake feels safe and comfortable in his cage he/she is more likely to feed. I don't just buy the feeding out of the cage argument. So it is safe to say you have a Rat feeder that is a good thing. Try to feed F/T Rat the next feeding and see how that goes.



Chuck

I have found my carpets to be great feeders, no matter where they're fed. I have a rather nasty young female JCP that I'm working with and she is SLOWLY getting better.

Right now, I get bit 5 or 6 times when I hold her along with musking and all the other stuff. Give your guy time and I'm sure he'll come around.

I feed my girl in her tank with no trouble. What some people forget is that you're going to be in that tank/cage more often to clean and do maintenance than you are to feed. All of my snakes KNOW when it's feeding time. That's when I don't reach in without a rat or mouse preceeding me :)

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Originally Posted by darkangel

So what is different about JCPs in regards to in-cage feeding?

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Their logic is that BP's are not as aggressive as other snakes. Actually, their logic is that they have never really seen a problem with it and attribute it to BP's exceptional docility.


From what I've read in several threads it seems that in-cage feeding is a bit of a calculated risk. It sounds like its true that the snake isn't going to think its feeding time every time you reach into the cage. BUT, if it is expecting to be fed then there is a risk of getting a feeding response when you reach into the cage. Whether or not that balances against the negatives of out-of-cage feeding I don't have the experience to say.

it's not like snakes go... "oh its thursday, about 8:30, that means FEEDING TIME, i am going to strike at the first thing i see." if you hand smells like a rodent, then ya you might get a strike.

i mean if you move him to a separate tub, then feed him, how are you going to get him back into his tank? i would imagine a stronger feeding response after the snakes eaten then when you stick you hard in to clean or change water.

but whatever...

yea perhaps. I'm not really making any sort of strong assertion that one is better than the other. Personally, I got started on out-of-cage feeding with my BP and haven't experienced any of the problems people warn about. But that's just one snake. I'll probably continue the routine with my BP just because it works. I think for the JCP I'll just continue feeding in-cage and see how it works out.

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Originally Posted by dalvers63

All of my snakes KNOW when it's feeding time. That's when I don't reach in without a rat or mouse preceeding me :)

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"Halt! What's the password?"

"Rodent"

:D

Kevin

Exactly!!!I also think it is worth mentioning that you need to be careful reaching into any 6-8 ft pythons cage you might get a nasty bite that has nothing to do with were you feed your snake. Just because the animal is cornered and here you are reaching in to do whatever it may feel it has no other option. Jungles are not know for balling up when they are scared, know what I mean.


Chuck

Yea I will never feed out of cage. My BP was pissed after I fed her, cause I moved her to one side of cage and she struck at my hand.... so now I leaver her alone after she is done eating :)

well I did another handling tonight. It went real good. No huffing/hissing and he was fairly content to coil his lower half around my hand and just look around.

:carrot:

Still kind of scary when he decides to inspect my face. :O

I'm guessing he's not too active since he just ate Sunday night. Once he gets going again I'll post some pics of him. He's not real pretty but I like him... His belly is real shiny and high contrast but his top half is very dull and he looks like he's dirty. Is this normal?

I wouldn't let him inspect your face. You really never know what an animal is going to do. I had a 8 ft Moluccan the calmest snake, sooooo laid back. I had him out one night and I let him wrap around my waist, and he was crawling up my back. I was putting stuff on top of his cage away. Then all of the sudden I felt a sharp pain which was him latching on to the back of my head. He let go right away, I put him away and cleaned all the blood off and it was cool. It served as a sharp reminder that you can NEVER trust an animal. You just don't know what they are going to do. I know how it felt to have him hit the back of my head I really wouldn't want you to get tagged in the face :eek:

Ya post some pics and its very normal.

Chuck

I wouldn't even want to touch my BP after a feeding. He's a very calm creature but when he's in hunting mode, I wouldn't want my hand moving anywhere near him unless I'm dropping a mouse. I guess that's where the logic is lost on me... You say you don't want them to strike at you when it's not feeding time... But after a feeding, when their nerves and reflexes have a hair trigger, you want to pick him up and put him back in his enclosure? Also, I would think if there really was a danger of association with an act, it would be more apparent with a before-feeding ritual like moving to a different enclosure. Just my .02

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Originally Posted by Chuck

I wouldn't let him inspect your face. You really never know what an animal is going to do. I had a 8 ft Moluccan the calmest snake, sooooo laid back. I had him out one night and I let him wrap around my waist, and he was crawling up my back. I was putting stuff on top of his cage away. Then all of the sudden I felt a sharp pain which was him latching on to the back of my head. He let go right away, I put him away and cleaned all the blood off and it was cool. It served as a sharp reminder that you can NEVER trust an animal. You just don't know what they are going to do. I know how it felt to have him hit the back of my head I really wouldn't want you to get tagged in the face :eek:

Ya post some pics and its very normal.

Chuck

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Thanks for the tip. I've heard something like that described to me before. It was a guy in a pet shop talking about a childreni. He said sometimes it would just grab the skin on your arm and then let go. He called it "catching a scent". Whether or not it was defensive or some sort of flighty feeding response I wouldn't want it from my JCP - especially in the face. Usually he's just looking all around and flicking his tongue and he swings around and my face just happens to be there. Then he's on to something else. I should be able to just extend my arms slightly when he does that to discourage it or at least force him to straighten his neck out if he's going to insist. I'd rather not make any quick movements.

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Originally Posted by darkangel

I wouldn't even want to touch my BP after a feeding. He's a very calm creature but when he's in hunting mode, I wouldn't want my hand moving anywhere near him unless I'm dropping a mouse. I guess that's where the logic is lost on me... You say you don't want them to strike at you when it's not feeding time... But after a feeding, when their nerves and reflexes have a hair trigger, you want to pick him up and put him back in his enclosure? Also, I would think if there really was a danger of association with an act, it would be more apparent with a before-feeding ritual like moving to a different enclosure. Just my .02

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you know when I got started on out-of-cage feeding it was before I had really heard much in the way of arguments against it. It was simply the way it was done afaik. Like I said, I haven't personally experienced any problems with it.

With the initial move to the feeding tub, my snake is expecting to be handled and doesn't start getting wound up until he's actually put into the tub. With the move back, all I can say is that I think he knows the routine and expects to be picked back up. What really cemented this idea in my head is the first time I fed him two mice instead of one. The second mouse caught him totally by surprise and then when I went to pick him up he was really jumpy. But now, he clearly expects two mice and doesn't jump when I reach in to grab him. With my snake, at least, he doesn't seem to stay wound up after he eats. He just kind of switches back into normal mode and I can pick him up with no probs. When transporting him back I make sure to hold him with two hands and support his bulge.

My Bredl's tagged me the other day although i am putting it down to he going blue and cant see very well im glad hes not 8 feet thought!

it seems like the teeth might break off in the skin. That would suck.