Problem...

Okay so it's been in the mid 90's here for the last week. All of my breeder and feeder rats live down in my area way out side of my basement. It's all concrete, so it does stay pretty cool down there.

I've actually not had any rats die except for some babies that the moms rejected or didn't take care of. All 50+ rats of mine were perfectly healthy.. OR so I thought. Everyone gets new fresh water and refilled food daily. They get their tubs & tanks cleaned out every 5 days.


Two days ago I noticed that my pet rat CC went from looking bright eyed, hyper, healthy looking to looking like she was on deaths door. She had that "death hunched up back", wobbling around, real lethargic acting. She had her own cage up here in my room. So I found it odd but tried to help her out. By Sunday night she was so bad off that she was no longer moving around, laying in one corner and just looked horrible. I put her down right then and there to end her suffering and any pain she was in.


Today I just went down stairs to clean all of the rats tubs and tanks and about 30 of my rats adult to two weeks old looked and were acting exactly just like CC was a few days earlier. Most of them all look like they are old, sick, weak, etc. I don't understand why they all have gone from great looking, non sick rats to just about dead rats in a few day period? Looks like I'll be putting a lot of them, if not all of them down in the next few days.

All of my african rats seem to be doing just fine.

Has anyone else seen or had this happen to their rats? I'm not added any new rats in to my rat colony, so it's not an outside new rat sickness. I'm baffled!

Being in a woodsy area, it is pretty possible that you might have brought in something on your shoes or clothing. I have heard of people bringing SDA and Sendai viruses in on their shoes(comes from squirrel feces I believe).

If you haven't brought in any outside rats, then Sendai or SDA is very possible. What were their symptoms? Just poofing up and looking poorly in general? How long did ago did the symptoms start and how long did the disease progress until you saw deaths from it? Did they have swollen lymph nodes or rattling in their chests?

Becky gave some great info. I just wanted to put in my 2 cents. When I read your post, the first thing that popped in to my mind was dehydration. I have seen this 2 or 3 times in our colony, when I inadvertently leave a valve closed on the water reservoir after cleaning a bucket. This could also happen if they ran out of water, possibly from a flooded tub lower in the rack, or if one of your tubs has a clogged water nozzle. If it is your entire collection, and they are spaced out between two different racks, then the possibilities are less likely that you forgot to water two racks (I don't know your exact setup). As I said, this is what I thought when I first read the symptoms. Hope you can find a fix for your problem.

Becky, what is SDA or Sendai?

I know we have thousands of feeder and breeder rats at my work, but I don't work with them. I also know I do a lot of out door, woodsy stuff with friends and my dog. CC was fine on Saturday when my b/f and I had her out playing around with her. Sunday morning she was on deaths door. I put her down Sunday evening. Sunday and Monday all my other rats were fine and acting normal. This afternoon a lot of them look to be on deaths door. None of them have died, yet. Sunday night CC sounded horrible, like there was a lot of fluid in her lungs. A few of my other rats sound the same as of today.

It's very weird how this has come on out of no where.

Do you know if African rats can get SDA / Sendai?

Tim: I don't have a watering system, but use 32oz water bottles. Everyone has fresh water daily. I also do a water bottle check to make sure the ball in the spout isn't clogged daily too since I did have that happen once in of my African rats tanks. So I don't think dehydration is the problem.

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Originally Posted by lillyorchid

Tim: I don't have a watering system, but use 32oz water bottles. Everyone has fresh water daily. I also do a water bottle check to make sure the ball in the spout isn't clogged daily too since I did have that happen once in of my African rats tanks. So I don't think dehydration is the problem.

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Cool. It's just one of those head slappers sometimes. How can I forget the water? Just wanted to eliminate one possibility. Now I'll let Dr. Becky take back over.

www.ratguide.com There are some very good articles on pneumonia, Sendai and SDA.

Rats just don't all of a sudden get sick like this without an outside vector bringing something in, especially since it's such a large group that is getting sick. It sounds respiratory in nature since CC had congestion.

Where are the rats kept? Is it possible a wild mouse or something could have gotten in the basement? Wild rodents are known to carry alot of disease and parasites.

Have any new, unquarantined rats been brought in at where you work?

Thanks for the link!

I don't believe so on the mouse thing since it's built pretty air tight.

We do get in new live rats from time to time at work. I know we got some adult lab rats in about two weeks ago that we gassed and put in the freezer later that day. I guess that is a possibility that I picked something up from work since I do make a few trips back there daily to the dumpsters or to ask someone something.

HOLY COW! I just read the Sendai Virus page and the Clinical Signs for it. THAT is what it has to be. CC had a lot of those signs. Now that I just read over the signs, I can say that most of my rats are showing those same signs.

Most being:
# Sneezing
# Hunched posture
# Respiratory distress
# Labored breathing
# Porphyrin discharge from eyes and/or nose
# Lethargy
# Partial or full litter loss
# Failure to thrive in surviving babies and young rats
# Anorexia

I have a few rats that were fat but now are nothing but skin and bones with a very hunched up back. The litters that were healthy at two weeks old but now look very sick and skinny. Also with other younger rats look very old and sick. Some of the rats are sneezing and have porphyrin discharge from their nose/eyes also.

WOW this sucks. Should I just put them all down since it seems like they aren't going to make it and I just read that there isn't a cure for SV. This sucks!

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Originally Posted by lillyorchid

This sucks!

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That does suck. :( I'm really sorry to hear about your rats, Allison. :hug:

BTW, How difficult is it to get rid of this virus? Are your African rats immune?

Yes, I would definitely put them down because they will most likely not thrive after this. Even with aggressive antibiotic treatments, most rats affected will not make it. Their lungs are crap anyway, and when they get scarring from pneumonia, and other diseases, any small infection can just send them over the edge.

Afterwards, I would bleach everything and put a small 30-day quarantine on the basement, just in case.

I usually keep a small bottle of Parv-O-Way or chlorhexidine in my bathroom, just so I can spray my shoes if I've been somewhere "questionable". Very mild bleach water works fine too(shouldn't harm your clothes).

I'm very sorry about all of your ratties... :(

Both SDA and Sendai are untreatable (and on there own most rats recover from it) the issue is that these 2 depress the immune system so badly that other bugs can a foot hold and can ravage the rats system very quickly. Since it is colony wide my guess would be Myco. More than likely SDA or Sendai got into the colony and allowed the Myco bacteria to get a foot hold.

Again this is just a guess based on what you have described. Only a vet can do the culture and the xrays necessary to prove it.

The only hope is to get the all on a broad spectrum antibiotic (and quickly) to help combat the illiness and the only way for them to survive is to bulk up there immune system before the deseases take over.

All rats carry mycoplasmosis. It is in times of stress(such as breeding) and other factors that allow the myco bacteria to reduce the immune systems function and allow other illnesses to invade(such as the Sendai, SDA and pneumonia). Myco is a normal part of a rat's immune system.

Since SDA and Sendai are viruses, antibiotics will only help prevent secondary infection(pneumonia) from happening. It won't get rid of the actual virus and it will have to run its course. This means your rats will still carry it and they will have only built up an immunity to that specific strain of virus(other strains can still make them sick).

When keeping a colony of SDA or Sendai infected animals, you run the risk of passing it along to other animals(such as the entire colony of rats/mice at your work). For me, it wouldn't be a question of keeping them or not. They would get euthanized and my house would be quarantined(nothing in and nothing out for a solid 2 months or more, but they do recommend 6 months).

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Originally Posted by SatanicIntention

All rats carry mycoplasmosis. It is in times of stress(such as breeding) and other factors that allow the myco bacteria to reduce the immune systems function and allow other illnesses to invade(such as the Sendai, SDA and pneumonia). Myco is a normal part of a rat's immune system.

Since SDA and Sendai are viruses, antibiotics will only help prevent secondary infection(pneumonia) from happening. It won't get rid of the actual virus and it will have to run its course. This means your rats will still carry it and they will have only built up an immunity to that specific strain of virus(other strains can still make them sick).

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Agree but I think you have this backwards. SDA and Sendai would come first and the virus would then reduce the immune system function...which would allow the secondary Myco (or pneumonia) to get a foot hold and cause all the damage. Yes Myco is carried in most rats but in check as long as their immune systems are working.

My recommendation on antibiotics is to stop the secondary infection...so that the immune system could then deal with the SDA or Sendai.

But either way it doesn't matter...if you are willing to euthanize your entire colony (only a little over half are showing symptoms) then that is pry the easier and best option long term.

I have always just tried to save them first.

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Originally Posted by SatanicIntention

When keeping a colony of SDA or Sendai infected animals, you run the risk of passing it along to other animals(such as the entire colony of rats/mice at your work).

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What about humans and snakes???

Allison..also your ASF should be OK. It has been found that they seem to have a much hardier immune system (probably due to the lack of long term inbreeding...but this is just a guess)


They also seem to have much stronger respirtory systems.

Allison, I'm so sorry to read of this with your rat colony. I wish I had any advice regarding their health specifically but I don't, having no real time experience with this issue. I do however have a few suggestions as far as animal disease transmission from my turkey hatchery days. I would suggest you implement daily procedures for yourself which would include a full change of clothing from what you wear at work to what you wear at home. Also a shower after work. I would encourage you to consider a shoe dip and also keep your work shoes in an outside the home area (or stored in a container in your trunk). This may seem excessive but I know this is what we were encouraged to do after a day of being exposed to turkey droppings, eggs, and various other bodily fluids from the birds. It's important to protect your collection of snakes and rats as well as those that you work with.

No, Myco doesn't cause the actual infection, it just reduces the immune system's ability to fight infection. Then, things like pneumonia can take over. The viruses SDA and Sendai also act like myco in that they reduce the immune system so other things can get in. Myco is carried in ALL rats, unless they were delivered by C-Section in a lab.

I doubt mycoplasma even has a role in this, as it is a bacteria that is easily controlled(Baytril/Doxycycline combos or tylosin) with proper husbandry. Yes, some rats may have worse immune systems, but for most, them having myco doesn't affect their health.

One last thing, if this was my colony that I was using to breed food for my snakes, I sure wouldn't want them carrying a virus that would prevent me from introducing new blood into the colony. You also don't want to create offspring with weak immune systems or "failure to thrive" babies. Antibiotics for 50+ rats, that would need to be given for 2-3 weeks to insure the virus wasn't still affecting them, would be very costly to say the least. The rats would also not be very healthy afterwards and would be prone to other bacterial infections.

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Originally Posted by SatanicIntention

No, Myco doesn't cause the actual infection, it just reduces the immune system's ability to fight infection. Then, things like pneumonia can take over. The viruses SDA and Sendai also act like myco in that they reduce the immune system so other things can get in. Myco is carried in ALL rats, unless they were delivered by C-Section in a lab.

I doubt mycoplasma even has a role in this, as it is a bacteria that is easily controlled(Baytril/Doxycycline combos or tylosin) with proper husbandry. Yes, some rats may have worse immune systems, but for most, them having myco doesn't affect their health.

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Then we will just agree to disagree.:rockon:

Allison, I think facing a tough decision about possibly putting down a whole colony or spending the cash and time trying to save them when they may or may not be able to produce feeders for you is hard place to be in. Personally, I'd take all this valuable information you've been given here, consult your vet (perhaps even having one or two of the worst affected rats tested) and then make the final call based on your own research, your own decisions and your vet's best advice.

It's a tough call hon and I don't envy you this. Big hugs.

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

Allison, I think facing a tough decision about possibly putting down a whole colony or spending the cash and time trying to save them when they may or may not be able to produce feeders for you is hard place to be in. Personally, I'd take all this valuable information you've been given here, consult your vet (perhaps even having one or two of the worst affected rats tested) and then make the final call based on your own research, your own decisions and your vet's best advice.

It's a tough call hon and I don't envy you this. Big hugs.

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You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to frankykeno again.

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Joanna always the voice of reason :)

I completely agree. This is a decision only you are your vet can make.

I could not have put it any better than Joanna did. My thoughts are with you.