Back up thermo's... necessary??

I'm reading around about people having Johnson's backed up by another Johnson, or a R500, and I'm asking if it's totally necessary? I don't know what the purpose is of having a back up. Is it in case one breaks down and you need one temporarily? Thanks for the attention guys.

Tony

Is insurance important to you...is so why?

This same logic can be applied to why you might want a back up thermostat. Flexwatt can easily hit 115+ degrees in a few mintues. High enough to burn and/or kill your snakes (or cook eggs in an incubator). If you have $1000s or $10,000s of morphs in a rack (or potentially in an incubator) is $75 worth some peace of mind?

Only you can answer this question.

A backup thermostat is typically set a couple degrees higher than the main one. If the main one fails then the backup kicks in to keep the temps in check till you can replace the defective one.

Now where the question comes in (like in insurance) is it common for thermostats (at least the name brand ones) to fail? No...but some will...are you willing to gamble if yours will fail?

well basically it's in case the main thermostat fails, and the heating pad heats up to higher temps then set. a back up thermostat is usually set 5 degrees higher then the other thermostat so it would cut the power to it, which would cut the power to the heating element. this would prevent the heating element from getting to how and hurting the animals.

as for is it necessary... just put it this way: you have a collection of snakes worth $3,000 (many collections and way higher then that). would you put all your faith in that thermostat? if it fails, you are SOL. by having a back up thermostat you protect your collection.

Oh wow, thanks for the replies. Very interesting too. It's safe to say though just having a normal BP would be okay on just one right? lol. Thanks again guys.

Buy the best equipment you can afford.

I had a Bigapple thermostat stick on and burn one of my girls. I now use the Herpstat DBS1000 on all three of my racks with no worrys of them failing and sticking in the "on" position. :D

yea as long as you buy a quality thermostat from a reputable vendor, you will most likely not have a problem. there are people on this forum that have been keeping snakes 10's of years using helixes and they have not had a problem.

i am not one of them but give me 10's of years and i'll get back to ya....

I use rheostats on my BP tubs, and they are pretty foolproof; they do not allow more power than I set them at.
Now, I plan on switching to my Helix thermostat once it is done being used for my incubator in a few months.. It is an awesome thermostat and worth every penny I spent on it. I do not feel that it needs a backup, but everyone is different and responsible for their own actions I guess. I had a power outage while running it, and it was "smart" enough to remember its setting before the outage, and that gives me confidence.

We have our snakes in tanks (more visually appealing and my BP seems to like watching us and TV). I stick a ceramic tile over the ZooMed UTH (no FlexWatt yet). That reduces the temp by about 10 to 15 degrees by spreading it out. Then adding a layer of substrate (CareFresh Bedding) reduces the temp to about 90 degrees. I have a ZooMed thermostat running wide open (probe taped to ceramic tile under warm hide). It only kicks out if the temp in the room gets too warm (over 80 degrees). If he does dig into the substrate it's only about 100 degrees, not high enough to burn (I hope).

It's not perfect but having layers over the UTH reduces the possibility of thermal burns.

I learned this from a guy who's kept and rescued all kinds of herps for over 30 years. He never uses thermostats and adds layers of substrate (indoor/outdoor carpet, etc.) to regulate floor temps.

Wow.. That sounds so safe! ...:eek:

Snakes don't know if they are being burned enough, their nerve sensing capabilities are not very developed on their bellies. This is why heat rocks and unregulated heating pads are very dangerous. They can develop hot spots or the temps can spike if the room warms up too much. The snake won't be aware of this and can get burned or overheated very easily. This is why having a QUALITY thermostat is important.. It can save your snake's life. Crappy thermostats can stick in the ON position and FRY your snake or cause a fire. I used one of the ALife "things" for about 2-3 months before it started fluctuating wildly(wildly meaning 10-15 degree swings). It wasn't safe to use on my ONE normal Ball I had at that time, so why would I use something like that for my 25(+18 eggs) snakes that have cost me thousands of dollars, only to have it fail ONCE and possibly kill my entire collection or start a fire?

I have a Herpstat 2 on my largest rack controlling both sets of flexwatt. It will shut off if temps are too high for too long of a period, and will sound an alarm(that is VERY annoying...) if the temps fluctuate or the probes get moved. I also have a Helix DBS-1000 that will be used on my newest rack(along with a dimmer that is connected to the cool side flexwatt, and in turn is connected back to the Helix), and a Johnson Controls thermostat that will be used with my two baby racks. All of these thermostats will automatically sound an alarm and shut off if there is a problem. Some models will send you emails, some will call a pre-set phone number to alert you.

I am responsible for my snakes' wellbeing, and if I can't spend a measly $70-$140 on a decent thermostat that can possibly last the life of the snake(30-40 years), then I don't need to be owning these animals. Divide the cost of the thermostat out for the lifespan of the snake, and you'll see that the expense isn't much at all.

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Originally Posted by DragonBalls

We have our snakes in tanks (more visually appealing and my BP seems to like watching us and TV). I stick a ceramic tile over the ZooMed UTH (no FlexWatt yet). That reduces the temp by about 10 to 15 degrees by spreading it out. Then adding a layer of substrate (CareFresh Bedding) reduces the temp to about 90 degrees. I have a ZooMed thermostat running wide open (probe taped to ceramic tile under warm hide). It only kicks out if the temp in the room gets too warm (over 80 degrees). If he does dig into the substrate it's only about 100 degrees, not high enough to burn (I hope).

It's not perfect but having layers over the UTH reduces the possibility of thermal burns.

I learned this from a guy who's kept and rescued all kinds of herps for over 30 years. He never uses thermostats and adds layers of substrate (indoor/outdoor carpet, etc.) to regulate floor temps.

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Ouch. If your snake burrows (as many do..) you'll end up with a crispy critter in no time.

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Originally Posted by Ginevive

Ouch. If your snake burrows (as many do..) you'll end up with a crispy critter in no time.

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He sometimes wears a groove in the substrate, usually like a racetrack around the outside edge. No burns yet. The ceramic tile spreads out the heat and reduces (not eliminates) the possibility of burns.

I've seen stories of people using shelf liner on the bottom of a tank and the snake getting under it and getting burned. The tile isn't going anywhere.

When he was younger he used to burrow under his water bowl, a big heavy fake stone one!! It was cool to watch the bowl dance!!

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Originally Posted by SatanicIntention

Wow.. That sounds so safe! ...:eek:

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Not nice. I assume you're being sarcastic.

I can see using tubs, FlexWatt and expensive thermostats for a large collection (more than 4 or 5?), especially if you have alot of money invested in the snakes, but we prefer to be able to see them (our preference, no theirs). If I'm going to have a pet I'd better be able to see and interact with it. We don't want to collect reptiles, we want to observe and handle them, preferably in somewhat of a "natural" environment.

So if I only spend $75(thermostat)+ $4(flexwatt and wire), + $4(15qt tub), + $1 (two plastic pot saucers for hides), + $1(water bowl) + free for the newspaper, that means I'm much less of an owner and so uncaring towards my PETS? My animals are pets first, and if they thrive and are able to produce offspring under my care, then by all means.

That's really not a nice thing to say... Especially when you are talking about an animal that spend 95% of it's life in a hole in the ground. If I wanted to make a natural enclosure, I would buy acreage in the country, add some termite mounds, water buffalo, lions, giraffes, elephants, amphibians, birds of prey, native rodent species, etc and let some Ball Pythons fend for themselves.

Having a glass enclosure is nice for the owner to look at, but the snake really doesn't care one iota. If its needs are met, the snake eats every week, sheds perfectly, doesn't have internal/external parasites, is able to thermoregulate properly(and not get burned in the process), is able to hide and feel secure, then I think I've done my job as its caretaker. It doesn't matter if the snake is housed in a tub set up that cost $90(or less) or a tank set up that cost $400.

I was just commenting that your current set up is very far from safe, and your snake could be harmed. Having an unregulated heat source going full blast is just asking for trouble. If you had a power surge through your house, that heat pad's temperature could spike, leaving your snake with quite a bad burn(considering that slate tile takes a long time to cool off). Heat sources NEED to be regulated because snakes are not physically able to tell if they are being burned(ie snakes cooking on heat rocks).

It is our job to be responsible and protect them from harm. They can't do it themselves. :(

I use Ranco as my back-up my main thermostat is Herpstat.

I am not taking any risk with my BP better be safe then sorry even if I doubt my Herpstat would fail at least I have peace of mind.

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Originally Posted by DragonBalls

No burns yet.

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Hmmm.."yet"? A novel concept of waiting to see if disaster strikes. I suppose that's what this snake's previous owners decided to do about her husbandry and heating needs as well. Bit of a poor result wouldn't you say.....

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e2...lahMay2006.jpg

Ahh well it's not you that will pay the price for the decisions you make is it.

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I can see using tubs, FlexWatt and expensive thermostats for a large collection (more than 4 or 5?)

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Back when I only had 1 BP, I already had a thermostat, why? First to maintain proper temps, second to avoid overheating, this was not because I had money invested but because any of my animals are part of the family and my role as their owner is to keep them healthy and safe and this mean having a thermostat regardless of the enclosure or the price of the animal.

I think it is not neccessary...what if the one powering the back up goes bad???

I think the only thing you need it a surge power thing made by APC.

freakie frog did you say you use a "herpstat dbs 1000" ? is that the latest hybrid in the herp world ??? LOL have fun!