feeding problem

ok, i went to attempt to give a f/t mouse to my snake today, and this happened

as i did a little dance with the mouse *using tongs* to trick the snake into thinking the mouse was alive. the snake strikes pulls the mouse back and then drops it before it cantricts. after this the snake went into a ball and dident move for a solid 10 mins, this left the *bitten* mouse of the paper... i left the mouse in the tank atm, so incase the snake eats it *dont think its gono happen*.

everything in the tank is perfect and the old owner said the snake had been eating F/T mice. this is the 3rd mouse i have tried...every 5 days. and so far this is the best response that the snake has givven me. should i give up on F/T and attempt to feed him live mice.

cheers,

liam

I am new here so im not hip on the abbv words but I am assuming that your referring to frozen and thawed mice. If I am wrong please correct me. I wouldnt feed live mice though. I did that because my ball wouldnt eat frozen and thawed mice. So I went to live, at first I never had a proble for years but then I started having problems of him getting bitten which resulted in him getting an infection that resulted in taking him to the vet. He recovered but now I dont take the chance.

Now I have the mice knocked out for me when I go to the pet store to pick them up. I will never feed my snakes live again there is to much of a chance of them getting hurt.

There is a nice guide on ow to humanely kill your mice or rats using dry ice. I will try to find it and post the link.

here is the link

http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=33850

First off....try waiting a full seven days between feeding attempts. These snakes live life very slowly and it can take them a relatively long time to get over something stressful.


It sounds to me like even if the tank is set up "perfectly"...he's not fully settled in yet. He may never have been settled in at all with his previous owner...it doesn't sound like he was kept in ideal situations....so it may take a little while longer yet, for him to feel safe and secure enough to eat.

Here's what I would try, were I in your shoes:

1. Don't handle him at all until he gets on a regular feeding schedule. Spot clean the substrate if necessary, and provide fresh water. Other than that...don't mess with the enclosure any more than necessary.

2. Take some newspaper and wad the sheets up into big, loosely crumpled balls. Fill his enclosure with them.

3. Wait a full week after the newspaper was introduced...then take a warm, thawed rodent...drop it in the tank with as little fuss as possible, replace the lid and cover the tank with a dark sheet or towel or something.

4. Leave it overnight.

5. Hopefully he ate the rodent. Most likely he did. If not, remove it....wait a week...and try again, exactly like this. If he DOES eat the rodent...same thing...wait a full week, and follow this routine exactly again.

6. After a couple of successful meals, you can start removing the paper...one or two wads after each successful feeding. Until eventually, he'll be completely paper-free....and you have a very snuggly-secure-feeling snake. :)

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everything in the tank is perfect

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What do you call perfect can you describe?
How long have you had your BP for? Have you handle your BP, if so how often?
Is the enclosure in a low traffic area?
What is the size of your BP?
What is the size size of the enclosure?
What are your temps & Humidity?
What type of Thermoter/Hygrometer do you use?
Are your hides tight and identical?

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I will never feed my snakes live again there is to much of a chance of them getting hurt.

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People should be educated about the different feeding options available to them and then pick the one that work for their BP and is convenient to them. Live feeding can be as safe if done by a responsible owner.

What do you call perfect can you describe?

temp and humid, are at what the vet said to keep them. the snake is active when itm should be. ect

How long have you had your BP for? Have you handle your BP, if so how often?

about 2 weeks, i have handles every two days, but this is only becasue ion the last week he has been going to the vet for treatment of parisites.

Is the enclosure in a low traffic area?

pretty much low traffic. not much noise. def the most quite place in my house.

What is the size of your BP?
1m, 767g

What is the size size of the enclosure?

1m long and about 30cm wide. 40cm high

What are your temps & Humidity

vet said to keep at - 60-70 humid
temp is about 75F

What type of Thermoter/Hygrometer do you use?

2 crappy as hell anolouge ones...not a single digital one in this blasted country.

Are your hides tight and identical?

tight yes, identical no.

1 is a half log in cool side, and the other is a unplugged heat cave for the warm side.

To pick one item that is not "perfect" your temps. 75 F is WAY TO COLD. You should have a hot side 90-92F and a cool side 80-85F. This one item could be why your snake isn't eating...

To mention one more you said he was being treated for parasites this could be another...

And (OK I am on a roll now) if you are handling him every 2 days and you have only had him for 2 weeks you are stressing the life out of him. You need to fix your temp issues and leave him alone (completely don't touch him, or mess with his cage (outside of spot cleaning and fresh water) for at least 7 days.

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Originally Posted by GA_Ball_Pythons

What do you call perfect can you describe?
How long have you had your BP for? Have you handle your BP, if so how often?
Is the enclosure in a low traffic area?
What is the size of your BP?
What is the size size of the enclosure?
What are your temps & Humidity?
What type of Thermoter/Hygrometer do you use?
Are your hides tight and identical?


People should be educated about the different feeding options available to them and then pick the one that work for their BP and is convenient to them. Live feeding can be as safe if done by a responsible owner.

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I am not sure how to safely feed my ball live mice, how do I control how he wraps his body around the mouse? all the times he has gotten bitten he has coiled around the mouse where the mouses mouth is right against his body. How can you control something like that.

my vet told me I shouldnt be feeding him live food due to the danger of bites.
after all I have gone thru with the multiple injurys my ball has gotten from mice bites and as a result of the infection of one of those bite I will never feed him live again.

I feed my red tail frozen and thawed jumbo rats, thank goodness he doesnt have an issue with those he gobbles them up. my ball wont eat frozen but he will eat knocked out mice.

If you can give me some pointers on live feeding I would appreciated it. Thanks :)

Liam, think for a moment what your snake has faced in the last 2 weeks of it's life (which to a snake is about an eye's blink of time).

- new owner and all the stress of being hauled off to a new home
- incorrect temps both now and likely previously
- mite investation which I assume it came with, so a perhaps long standing health issue
- repeated vet visits and handling to administer meds
- complete cage rip down and cleaning
- repeated attempts to feed and refusals

Liam, it's no wonder this snake won't eat, in fact, it's rather expected it would refuse. Snakes must feel healthy, secure and safe in order to hunt and that doesn't mean live or f/t or p/k prey, it means any hunting, constricting and swallowing behaviour. Sick, stressed snakes do not generally feed. To hunt, to constrict and to swallow a whole prey item is a big physical demand on their systems. As well as being a very vulnerable time for them as they cannot fight nor flee very effectively while dealing with their prey.

As suggested you need to get your temps in line and properly monitored so you actually know what the temps and humidity are. You should likely replace those hides with small, dark and identical hides (a dollar at most at any dollar store to buy a couple of dark plastic small bowls). The addition of the crumpled newspaper will help the snake feel safer. Handling only for meds/vet requirements. A quiet room, low light and little to no interference. This snake is a decent weight. It's not going to die from missing a few feeds but it won't do well if it continues to refuse due to health and housing issues.

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Originally Posted by darkdreamer

I am not sure how to safely feed my ball live mice, how do I control how he wraps his body around the mouse? all the times he has gotten bitten he has coiled around the mouse where the mouses mouth is right against his body. How can you control something like that.

my vet told me I shouldnt be feeding him live food due to the danger of bites.
after all I have gone thru with the multiple injurys my ball has gotten from mice bites and as a result of the infection of one of those bite I will never feed him live again.

I feed my red tail frozen and thawed jumbo rats, thank goodness he doesnt have an issue with those he gobbles them up. my ball wont eat frozen but he will eat knocked out mice.

If you can give me some pointers on live feeding I would appreciated it. Thanks :)

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There is NO WAY to 'control' your snake when he is eating. Their nature is to grab and constrict. If the prey is appropriately sized...chances are he is not gonna let the prey get the best of him.

That is your vets opinion. Not a fact.

The only suggestion I would have for you is to make sure you are feeding appropriate sized meals to your snakes.

Since you stated you will never feed live again...what is your question? If you are feeding f/t and it is working then I would stick with it.

ps. I have always fed live and have never had a problem. that is is just my own personal experience. Other people do not like to feed live. To each his own.

:D

the only time i have been handling is by taking him to the vets every 2 days. THIS CANNOT be helped in order to achieve healthy life again.

temputed i will jack up the heating to make the tank hotter, and will attempt to find a dig temp thingy.

ty

What vet would make you go to him every two days for a species of snake that stresses out easily? When you say parasite, are they internal, or things like mites? For internal parasites, I've heard of a vet giving them one shot/medication a week, but not every two days. And if it's mites, there should really be no reason to go after the first visit if he gave you something to treat the cage with like PAM. What is he giving to your snake for treatment btw?

If it's shots every few days I'm surprised the vet hasn't shown you how to do it yourself so you can minimize moving this snake. Yes we are all aware of the need to handle for meds while under vet care and acknowledged that should be the only handling time. That was only one small point in these many answers to you, trying to help you set up your snake properly, feed it properly and understand why it's likely rejecting eating at this point.

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about 2 weeks, i have handles every two days, but this is only becasue ion the last week he has been going to the vet for treatment of parisites.

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A BP that is not healthy or handled to often will go off feed

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vet said to keep at - 60-70 humid
temp is about 75F

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Temps is borderline and since you have a reading with analogue thermometer it is likely even lower then that which u-healthy and could lead to RI
Humidity should be 50%-60%
Your temps should be 90-94 F on the warm side or 32.5-34.5 Celcius and 80-84 or 27-29 Cecius on the cool side

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2 crappy as hell anolouge ones...not a single digital one in this blasted country.

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You need to research the subject and find a digital device, if not in a local store check online and try to find a store that will ship to you

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1 is a half log in cool side, and the other is a unplugged heat cave for the warm side

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Your hides need to be tight so your BP feels secure, and identical so your BP does not chose
security over thermo-regulation (Note: Log hides do not provide enough security).

Fix you husbandry, once done wait a week with no handling and try to offer food again.

ok i have made the temps right, and improved the hides, no they are not completly identical, but the log one now is a half log cave, very tight and sucure, also the cave is about the same size and also tight and sucure.

ok the treatement is for internal parisites. and also a bunch of vitimins and stuff *not sure lots of large words, brian cant cope*. treatment is now finished and it was 4 times once every 2 days.

wasnot injections *shudders, have a thing about needles* but a tube that goes down the mouth then, the meds along the a little food are fed to the snake. qual the food was.

vet also says the snake was underweight. he is also a trianed vet with a specility in reptiles and birds.

howcome every care sheet or anyone i talk to says diff things about the temps and humid, and wieght it should be and size they grow to.. is there nothing solid or 2 the point?


*any injections that would have to be done *non yet, exept blood test to check for parisites* i would not be able to do due to the fact i cant stand needles, makes me get shivers down my spine :O

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Originally Posted by liam

howcome every care sheet or anyone i talk to says diff things about the temps and humid, and wieght it should be and size they grow to.. is there nothing solid or 2 the point?

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Because they're all written by different "experts" (I use that term loosely) who have differing opinions of how things should be done.

In general though, 80-85 for the cool side and 90-95 with 50-65% humidity, maintained 24/7, is going to be within the ranges of everyone's care sheets. If it's not, they're wrong and should be ignored in most cases. Those are the conditions that have been found to be beneficial to the animals by a vast majority of breeders and owners, who probably know these animals much more intimately than the stupid "experts" who think they know it all...

kk aggred, my temp's are now running better *gave up using the therm* im now just using the thermostat to check the temp. not the best way but it will have to do untill i can grab a decent thermostat.