just born...2 headed California Kingsnake

I just opened up the incubator to look at the rest of the remianing 7 Cali king eggs. One had already hatched. As I peered in, I noticed what appeared to be the head of a dead-looking baby, poking out of the egg. The snake wasn't breathing so I went forward and opened the egg to find this:

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...headedCALI.JPG

:eek:

The photo was taken while the dead snake was on a blank sheet of paper.

Genetic oddities are always interesting it is too bad it didn't survive. :(

aww...that's sad.

:(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lord jackel

Genetic oddities are always interesting it is too bad it didn't survive. :(

---

Yeah...and what makes it worse is that not only is this my first clutch, but also the feeling that I could have prevented this in some way. At the realization that he died while poking through, I felt really bad. :(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by _BoidFinatic_

Yeah...and what makes it worse is that not only is this my first clutch, but also the feeling that I could have prevented this in some way. At the realization that he died while poking through, I felt really bad. :(

---

Don't let it get you down too much. Although many abnormalities will go full term, it's unusual for them to survive very long after they hatch. It probably has something to do with them receiving nourishment from their yolk instead of relying on their organs to survive. :confused:

I'll second what Lawrence said. Don't let it get you down. I had an animal, not 2 headed, last year that was similar to that snake. Went full term, and even came half way out of the egg last year. After it died before fully emerging, my wife cut the egg and pulled out a fused belly and severly kinked tail portion, animal. It is sad, but it does happen. We can only hope to see something once in our lifetime with our collections. I hope you never have to experience that again.

Sincerely,

wow, thats insane.
Too bad it died.

Unbelieveable! This morning I check on the rest of the 4 remaining eggs in the incubator. 2 more had hatched and were normal, which left 1 pipped egg and one egg with 2 heads poking out again. Boy....was this wierd. So a few hours later I check on it and again, I find a dead 2 headed cali king halfway out of the egg. :O :O What is going on here? 2 - 2 headed calis in from the same 8-egg clutch? Here's a pic of today's freak:


https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...headedCALI.bmp

Definitely a strange one. I think this is one that needs further investigation. As you say, two-two headed Cali Kings from the same clutch, why that nearly defies belief. Keep us updated on any other oddities you come across, if any!

Also what makes this great is that you still have the same breeding pair of california Kingsnakes. I bet you cant wait until next season and see what
happens next time around. LOL. :rockon:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Boa/Kingsnake Fan

Also what makes this great is that you still have the same breeding pair of california Kingsnakes. I bet you cant wait until next season and see what
happens next time around. LOL. :rockon:

---

That's a horrible idea. Why would you breed animals with a very low probability of survival? Inbreeding deformities because they are unusual is an awful proposal.

ok but what is the chance of producing a 2 heading snake? now what is it of producing 2 in the same clutch? these parents share the gene to make a two headed baby which is the rarest thing in the world. why not try again? we have people crossbreeding balls and other breeds of snakes into others so why not try to produce a 2 headed snake that lives? even though most dont live with in an hour of hatching, from a scientist point of view this is a one in a life time chance

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by slartibartfast

That's a horrible idea. Why would you breed animals with a very low probability of survival? Inbreeding deformities because they are unusual is an awful proposal.

---

I think he was joking.

Deffanatly REALLY weird, but intresting.

Because there is a huge difference between producing healthy animals with a range of pretty colours, and intentionally breeding for a deformity that is nearly always fatal.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by slartibartfast

That's a horrible idea. Why would you breed animals with a very low probability of survival? Inbreeding deformities because they are unusual is an awful proposal.

---

I believe that you are trying to say that it's a horrible idea to breed two of the offspring together, whereas he is trying to say that he can't wait to see what the same pair throw next year. At this point, I don't know if I will breed this same pair together, although it's a shame, since the other 6 were STUNNING Banded cali kings like the mother.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by _BoidFinatic_

I believe that you are trying to say that it's a horrible idea to breed two of the offspring together, whereas he is trying to say that he can't wait to see what the same pair throw next year. At this point, I don't know if I will breed this same pair together, although it's a shame, since the other 6 were STUNNING Banded cali kings like the mother.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NickMyers03

ok but what is the chance of producing a 2 heading snake? now what is it of producing 2 in the same clutch? these parents share the gene to make a two headed baby which is the rarest thing in the world. why not try again? we have people crossbreeding balls and other breeds of snakes into others so why not try to produce a 2 headed snake that lives?

---

He is saying that he thinks this pair should be crossed again with the intention of producing more deformities. I don't think it gets much clearer than that, or that there can be any worse reasons to breed.

yes i was stating that the parents should be bred again not the babies that were produced. but again im looking at this from a scientific point of view. what if these genes could help humans in some way with deformities? this is the reason. this is a naturally occuring event, why not let it happen? it is rare for them to live but look at birthing records for any breeder. just this year RDR bred a pair of DH together in which only one made it and the rest died in the egg but went full term just like the 2 headed king. so whats saying next year if one is produced again that it wont live?

In studies done on Natrix natrix, dicephalism was found to be caused by improper incubation temperatures, and likely was not an inheritable trait. More work needs to be to verify this hypothesis, but there has been no account of dicephalic snakes having dicephalic offspring.

What did you use for incubation? What was the temp. range? If you breed your pair next year, and incubate at a steady 80-82, I would highly doubt you would hatch anything but normal healthy babies.

-Evan

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Evan Jamison

In studies done on Natrix natrix, dicephalism was found to be caused by improper incubation temperatures, and likely was not an inheritable trait. More work needs to be to verify this hypothesis, but there has been no account of dicephalic snakes having dicephalic offspring.

What did you use for incubation? What was the temp. range? If you breed your pair next year, and incubate at a steady 80-82, I would highly doubt you would hatch anything but normal healthy babies.

-Evan

---

Homemade incubator. Temperature was always between 79-83 degrees, even though the permissable range is 70-85 degrees.

That is very sad to see, but also very interesting. They have lived in the wild....... but maybe something is wrong with lungs which is why they cant make it out of egg. I remember seeing snakes have one lung stretched a good potion of their body, so maybe its split between their heads?

Just a very bad guess ;\

I just saw your bog today. What a bummer about your two-headed CalKing, although it probably would not have survived due to the attached midbody region. First time I've seen both conditions together. I study two-headed snakes and would like to get more data on your specimen. What was its "birth" date? Do you have any more photos of it? Did you preserve it? What is the name of your store? How many snakes have you bred/hatched all together? Thanks, Dr. Van

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dicephalics

I just saw your blog today. What a bummer about your two-headed CalKing, although it probably would not have survived due to the attached midbody region. First time I've seen both conditions together. I study two-headed snakes and would like to get more data on your specimen. What was its "birth" date? Do you have any more photos of it? Did you preserve it? What is the name of your store? How many snakes have you bred/hatched all together? Thanks, Dr. Van

---

I now see that you hatched two dicephalics from one clutch. That is extremely rare although it has occurred several times before. I hope you kept the specimens.

Wow... holy thread resurrection, Batman!

I hope you get the info. you're looking for, just keep in mind that this thread is over four years old now and the OP hasn't logged on since 2008. Good luck, though. :)