Live or f/t?

I've talked to lots of people and read plenty of testimonies that bps can be difficult to get switched onto f/t prey.

I just offered my big girl a medium sized thawed rat and she took it right out of my hand! I guess I'm just one of the lucky ones?

Do you feed your snake(s) f/t? Do some eat live while others eat f/t? Do you feed live because they refuse f/t or out of choice? I know lots of people that like to feed live prey simply to watch the "action".

I feed F/T to all 16 BP for the convinience of having the proper size prey always available. I also raise my own rodents and have no issue feeding live if necessary.

Bottom line people should feed what works for their BP and what is convinient for them.

Live is obviously the worst route to go if you can feed f/t. But when your snake won't touch anything else, you need to suck it up and go live. The only real opportunity for injury is if the snake bites the rodent in the midsection or if the rodent is too big.

I fed my oldest ball python live rats for years before switching to f/t, and he didn't hesitate a bit the first time I offered him a dead rat instead of a live one. Then again, he's always been a greedy bugger :P Never had any problems with the live ones, it just became more convenient to feed f/t. Now all my snakes eat f/t, and all the snakes at the pet store where I work eat f/t (not that there are that many of them, our herp section is pretty small). I've never had any real problems with 'converting' snakes, either. The store's reptile company/breeder that we buy from feeds live, but I've never had a snake from them hold out for more than a few weeks, a month tops, before taking a f/t prey. Guess I'm just a lucky devil! :D

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Originally Posted by weirdbuglady

I've talked to lots of people and read plenty of testimonies that bps can be difficult to get switched onto f/t prey.

I just offered my big girl a medium sized thawed rat and she took it right out of my hand! I guess I'm just one of the lucky ones?

Do you feed your snake(s) f/t? Do some eat live while others eat f/t? Do you feed live because they refuse f/t or out of choice? I know lots of people that like to feed live prey simply to watch the "action".

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ehh i'm not a fan of those people who feed live to "watch the action". They usually own a snake for the wrong reasons.I feed live simply because my snake readily takes it. I don't want to try feeding F/T and the snake not taking it. I'm a responsible owner who watches their snake while they eat live, to make sure nothing happens. There are irresponsible people who leave rats with the snake for 1+ hours. that's when you present a danger.

when i got monty there was a mouse, small little thing, that had been in there for 2 weeks, so i put it in a cgae *cat knocked over and ate mouse*. im gonno try with small pry on frozen becasue she is smallish.. so a fuzzy m gonno start f/t.. and then ill try to move up sizes. but if she dosent take ill buy live and sit there ready to interviene if a fight breakes out. :)

ps - how do u lot thaw out ur food.... can i use a hairdryer on HOT rather then water.

I've never fed pre-killed or f/t, my collection has always been fed live, with appropriately sized prey. With well over 2000 live prey fed off since I've been keeping ball pythons, I've never had an injury to any of my snakes.

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Live is obviously the worst route to go if you can feed f/t.

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I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you on that. If done responsibly, live is just as safe as f/t.

Here's a great "oldie but goodie" discussion on live vs. pre-killed or f/t feeding.
http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=24079 :)

well, i might have to go live if i cant get it to take F/T.. and i dont wanna pre-kill it means me killing it... couldent do it.


how do the people tht use f/t thaw there mices... :)

i could stick in on my windo seal it would fry it within a couple of mins... bloody hot sun.... its 49C at 3.41pm....thts shade temp, imagine metal in direct sun.

To warm up the rodents I put them in a plastic baggie in a cup of hot (not boiling) water. For larger things like rats I usually do this twice, once to thaw, again to get them warm.

And even a young ball python can eat an adult sized mouse.

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Originally Posted by liam

well, i might have to go live if i cant get it to take F/T.. and i dont wanna pre-kill it means me killing it... couldent do it.


how do the people tht use f/t thaw there mices... :)

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I usually let mine thaw out overnight then feed in the morning/afternoon or take them out in the morning when I get up and feed late at night. They're completely thawed by that point, have pre-scented the room, and all I have to do is warm it up right before I feed it (by using a hairdryer or, I set it on a small heat pad I have available for 5 or 10 minutes beforehand).

I'm leery about using the baggie/hot water method...I've heard tales of exploding mouse stomachs and intestines everywhere *shudder*.

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Originally Posted by liam

well, i might have to go live if i cant get it to take F/T.. and i dont wanna pre-kill it means me killing it... couldent do it.


how do the people tht use f/t thaw there mices... :)

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My snake eats live Mice, but i hand feed him, i take him out of the tank and place him on a sheet on the floor and then i don't kill the mouse but i do happen to knock it unconcious, so its not trying to run, or try to bite him, but it still moves (nerves). it kinda just kicks one of there back legs, if Cyrus, my snake that eats live mice, if he doesn't take it after a few minutes the mouse will wake up. I knock them unconcious by flicking them in the head. That usually does it if it doesn't then you kinda have to hit it with something alittle harder than your finger.

You do not need to stun the mice, ball pythons are very efficient hunters. It's not humane to the prey item, and if they were to come out of it scared and disoriented before your snake constricts, would be much more dangerous than if they were fully conscious.

You also should never hand feed your snake. That's a SFE (Stupid Feeding Error) waiting to happen.

These excellent guidelines that Adam from 8ballpythons posted in another thread are what I do with my live feedings. I've never had to stun prey for any of my snakes, from my under 100 grammers to over 2000 grammers.

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

1. I feed my snakes in their enclosure ... this minimizes stress on the snake and allows them to "hunt" from familiar ground.

2. I leave their hide boxes (and everything else) in the cage ... this gives them some cover to hunt from and protects their bodies from the rats.

3. I feed nothing bigger than a small rat ... small rats teeth are still very soft just in case ... that said, I've never had to worry about "just in case".

4. If the meal isn't eaten within a reasonable about of time, it is removed before the rat gets the chance to become hungry/bored/curious.

In my experience, the rats are oblivious to the idea that there is even a snake in the box with them and usually just hang out in the corner and chew on the substrate until they are nailed (although, most of the time they are nailed mid air before they even hit the floor of the cage)!

-adam

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Originally Posted by The_Godfather

Live is obviously the worst route to go

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I couldn't disagree more.

I hope this helps.

-adam

my bloody mum and dad, have been talking to people that they know with snakes *corns not balls* and they forbid me to feed live. becasue they said that it will make the snake vicoius and want to bite everything.... can someone write something so i can print out and show them that they have no clue. its my snake and ill do whats best for it not what they think.... also im not allowed to 'stun' mice becasue they thinks it cruel, whitch it is... but its nature... and they want me to MAKE it take F/T whitch is doesent seem to want to do....


extra, i leave my mice in the sun for 10-20 mins and they are fully heated and thawed. i do this at 6ish at night and by this time the snake is active. i also use the cermic heater to make it body temp

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Originally Posted by liam

my bloody mum and dad, have been talking to people that they know with snakes *corns not balls* and they forbid me to feed live. becasue they said that it will make the snake vicoius and want to bite everything.... can someone write something so i can print out and show them that they have no clue. its my snake and ill do whats best for it not what they think.... also im not allowed to 'stun' mice becasue they thinks it cruel, whitch it is... but its nature... and they want me to MAKE it take F/T whitch is doesent seem to want to do....

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Well I think your parents need to read some threads on this forum

No your snake will not become more aggressive or vicious because it is fed live.

Your parents need to understand that feeding F/T is not always an option and that the priority is to do what work for your snake.

Feeding live is perfectly fine as long as it is done responsibly.

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Originally Posted by liam

also im not allowed to 'stun' mice becasue they thinks it cruel, whitch it is... but its nature...

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Nature doesn't stun mice.

As for the rest the best idea maybe to search on here ( there should be loads of F/T v's live threads with all the arguments in them, make up a list of links to the salient points then either let your parents read them and make up their own minds or select some of the posts and cut/paste them into a document you can print out.

I personally think letting them see both sides of the debate show's that you aren't trying to hide any of the information from them.

If it helps I feed mine F/T.


dr del

As Dr Del said...stunning is not nature and it is imo...totally cruel.

respect your prey no matter what it is.

stunning doesn't kill them and if your snake doesn't eat, it will only prolong the preys death.

also I own corn's and they eat live.

I know alot of people don't like to but I have had no problem with it.

also, it doesn't matter whether it is f/t or live...it will not make them agressive.

:rockon:

ive already told them that im gonno do what is best for snake and if tht means live, then its live. she still not eating after 3-4 weeks :(

Liam, please have your parents do some reading here. Snakes are totally unlike other pets, they do not "become vicious" due to feeding methods, in fact as far as I'm concerned one cannot call a snake "vicious". Snakes with their basic but beautifully designed reptilian brains simply react to stimulus. They don't equate live prey with attitude, live prey is simply something to eat to a snake. There is no "blood lust" or anything silly like that. Most snake feeds involve no blood letting of the prey so whether that prey is alive or a warmed up f/t prey, it's basically the exact same procedure to a snake. Prey exists, snake reacts, constricts and swallows the prey whole...end of story.

If your parents are concerned that feeding live is cruel to the prey animal, please assure them that folks like me who raise our own rats to feed our own snakes live would not be doing so if it was in anyway inhumane to either creature. The act of constriction is an almost immediate death to the prey animal as it shuts down the circulatory and respiratory systems pretty much instantly. Please remind your parents that f/t rodents did go into the Co2 chamber live so whether they pass by gas ingestion or through the natural predator/prey dynamic they are still dying quickly - one is by the hand of man, one by the natural predation of a snake.

Many people don't understand live feeding and fear it due to lack of knowledge. The best you can do is continue to insist on doing what is best for your snake and helping to educate your parents. In fact, I'd suggest you encourage mom or dad to create an account here and ask their questions/address their concerns here. We'll happily help them understand your new pet and what it's requirements are.